PS: Dino Babers era promises much more 4th-down excitement than Scott Shafer (analysis)

[OrangeXtreme]

Syracuse, N.Y. — The approach to fourth down is one of the biggest difference between old-school and new-school coaches.

The traditionalist frequently views fourth down as a time to punt, refusing to put their defense in a bad position and give the game away. The modern thinker frequently sees an opportunity to secure the game with offense, to outscore the opponent rather than stop them.

Not surprisingly, the difference in fourth-down approach between new Syracuse coach Dino Babers and old Syracuse coach Scott Shafer is stark. Given the frustration some felt toward Shafer late in his tenure, that's probably a good thing...

Dino Babers era promises much more 4th-down excitement than Scott Shafer (analysis) (Carlson)

 

[sufandu]

I expected the differential to be bigger. I suppose the biggest difference is that DB uses it as part of his offensive strategy where as most coaches like SS do it mostly in desparate situations.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

giggity

 

[upperdeck]

isnt twice as often a big difference?.

here is the big stat that I see.. BG ran almost 300 more plays and faced the same number of 4th downs.

SU had 3 games they ran 70 plays, BG only had 1 under 70 and that was the bowl game they couldnt stop the option to get on the field. they ran 80+ 7 times and 90+ 3 times.

if you run 20 more plays a game even at 5 yds a play you get 100 more yds

 

[Mr Peabody]

No question Babers is going to be more aggressive but a coach on the hot seat is going to play more traditonal than a rising star. Will be interesting this year; go for the wins or stay true to your offensive philosophy and take the high risk, high reward path. Is going for it so many times deep in your opponents territory a statement about your faith in your qb vs your kicking game? Or just how you feel the game should be played? Fun times ahead.

 

[CousCuse]

isnt twice as often a big difference?.

here is the big stat that I see.. BG ran almost 300 more plays and faced the same number of 4th downs.

SU had 3 games they ran 70 plays, BG only had 1 under 70 and that was the bowl game they couldnt stop the option to get on the field. they ran 80+ 7 times and 90+ 3 times.

if you run 20 more plays a game even at 5 yds a play you get 100 more yds

Bowling Green played a lot of athletically inferior and generally pathetic teams , SU had 1 in Rhody .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No question Babers is going to be more aggressive but a coach on the hot seat is going to play more traditonal than a rising star. Will be interesting this year; go for the wins or stay true to your offensive philosophy and take the high risk, high reward path. Is going for it so many times deep in your opponents territory a statement about your faith in your qb vs your kicking game? Or just how you feel the game should be played? Fun times ahead.

How it should be played. Final answer.

 

[upperdeck]

Bowling Green played a lot of athletically inferior and generally pathetic teams , SU had 1 in Rhody .

so running 85 plays vs tenn, 86 vs maryland, 92 vs purdue and 74 vs memphis means nothing? 3 p5 schools and and memphis was pretty good last year.

 

[sufandu]

so running 85 plays vs tenn, 86 vs maryland, 92 vs purdue and 74 vs memphis means nothing? 3 p5 schools and and memphis was pretty good last year.

Tennessee and Memphis were legit. Maryland and Purdue fall into the pathetic category despite the P5 label. Regardless, we will many more plays this year than we're used to. How many will depend very much how well our D gets off the field, my man concern.

 

[leftytg]

man, reading that article pisses me off all over again about that Florida State decision to punt at the FSU 44 on 4th and 2.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

man, reading that article pisses me off all over again about that Florida State decision to punt at the FSU 44 on 4th and 2.

Pin 'em deep!

 

[leftytg]

No question Babers is going to be more aggressive but a coach on the hot seat is going to play more traditonal than a rising star. Will be interesting this year; go for the wins or stay true to your offensive philosophy and take the high risk, high reward path. Is going for it so many times deep in your opponents territory a statement about your faith in your qb vs your kicking game? Or just how you feel the game should be played? Fun times ahead.

you say this as if Shafer only turned "traditional" in his final year, when he was on the hot seat. Shafer was the same "traditional" way his entire coaching tenure when it came to punting. In fact, I think desperation from being on the hot seat made him gamble more than he wanted last year.

I wish the article had broken out going for it with some kind of punt or fg fake and going for it by running a normal play. My feeling is that Babers mostly just lines up and goes for it, and a disproportionate number of Shafer's attempts were fake punts/fg's (i.e. trying to trick the opponent).

 

[TheCusian]

Bowling Green played a lot of athletically inferior and generally pathetic teams , SU had 1 in Rhody .

This is pure garbage. They played a very tough OOC versus athletically superior teams (Purdue, Indiana, Maryland, Tennessee). The teams in their own conference are not athletically inferior teams - they are all recruiting from the same pool of players, generally.

 

[PhatOrange]

No question Babers is going to be more aggressive but a coach on the hot seat is going to play more traditonal than a rising star. Will be interesting this year; go for the wins or stay true to your offensive philosophy and take the high risk, high reward path. Is going for it so many times deep in your opponents territory a statement about your faith in your qb vs your kicking game? Or just how you feel the game should be played? Fun times ahead.

it's his belief in how the game should be played.

And frankly a coach who goes conservative because he's afraid to lose his job should be shown the door anyways. Shafer was conservative no matter what because it's who he is a football coach.

 

[leftytg]

Pin 'em deep!

seriously, I'm getting an eye twitch.

Nothing will ever beat Shafer's decision to punt at the BC 30 yard line down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and then again from the BC 43 yard line.

 

[CousCuse]

This is pure garbage. They played a very tough OOC versus athletically superior teams (Purdue, Indiana, Maryland, Tennessee). The teams in their own conference are not athletically inferior teams - they are all recruiting from the same pool of players, generally.

Maryland and Purdue had their worst years in history . Bowling Green is one of the powers of the MAC along with NIU and Toledo .

 

[CousCuse]

seriously, I'm getting an eye twitch.

Nothing will ever beat Shafer's decision to punt at the BC 30 yard line down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and then again from the BC 43 yard line.

If you are a defensive coach playing a weak offense , you pin them deep and allow your DC to take a lot of risk , it is not difficult to comprehend .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If you are a defensive coach playing a weak offense , you pin them deep and allow your DC to take a lot of risk , it is not difficult to comprehend .

It's difficult to comprehend if your goal is to win.

 

[PhatOrange]

Maryland and Purdue had their worst years in history . Bowling Green is one of the powers of the MAC along with NIU and Toledo .

Bowling Green is 8-4 or 9-3 against our schedule last year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

seriously, I'm getting an eye twitch.

Nothing will ever beat Shafer's decision to punt at the BC 30 yard line down 21-7 in the 4th quarter and then again from the BC 43 yard line.

The BC punt at the 30 was so incredible because a bunch of us had joked about where exactly Shafer would punt from (RED ZONE, BABY!) and how late in the game he would do it down a few scores and then he actually did it.

I put forth that it was an amazing troll job by Shafer.

 

[CousCuse]

It's difficult to comprehend if your goal is to win.

Your obtuse and dense .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Your obtuse and dense .

If that's what we're calling "understanding how football works" these days, guilty as charged.

 

[CousCuse]

Bowling Green is 8-4 or 9-3 against our schedule last year.

Right . The ACC is a real conference , top to bottom .

 

[CousCuse]

If that's what we're calling "understanding how football works" these days, guilty as charged.

Whatever it takes to get the W's.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Whatever it takes to get the W's.

...

Yes. Which we didn't get. That's the point.

Regardless of time and score, Shafer wanted his defense on the field. It was a fatal flaw. He cared too much about limiting points and not enough about getting them.

If you're going to err, err on the side of getting points, because the game is scored such that whoever has the most points wins, not that you get credit for holding a team below a certain score independent of what your offense did.