Quick Post SU-Pitt part deux thoughts/State of the program

[orangepassion]

Few thoughts

* Guerrier, Dolezaj, and Griffin played well and are clearly our 3 best players, in that order. Unless someone else gets hot, no one besides them is good enough to play 35+ minutes.
* While I'm used to being outrebounded and outhustled (though it is amazing how rarely we get a loose ball, you'd think we'd get 1 of 3 by accident), what was additionally frustrating in this game was that Dolezaj and Guerrier were dominating inside and we rarely went to them there in the 2nd half.
* What I don't get is Boeheim (Jim) said that Defense was the big problem this game, but he played Buddy 40 minutes and barely played our best Defensive guard until the game was primarily out of reach.
* Kadary also doesn't look like the same player he was offensively when he had good minutes when Buddy was out and will need good, consistent minutes to get that back.
* I feel a little bad for Buddy and Girard. I believe they both (particularly Buddy) would be very good complementary players who are being asked to do too much. Joe really struggles under the basket, as he doesn't have the size or speed to compete with ACC athletes there. You can see he hesitates whenever he's under the basket. Girard seems like the Guard version of Dajuan Coleman to me-Dominated HS, but reached his peak with limitations at this level based on his lack of height and athleticism.
* Guerrier has to be the prototype we target. Strong, physical, athletic, hustles, had some upside coming in to improve. We have too many one-dimensional players.
* Having said that, I feel we have enough talent to be at least middle of the conference with this year's ACC IF we play smart (as in shot selection) and are at least competitive on the boards (as we were in the 1st half of this game). Time will tell if we can do that.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Kadary is not a great outside shooter.

Teams have figured him out. Sag off of him and he can't drive by, and an extra defender in the paint clogs the passing lanes.

 

[Alsacs]

None of our guards are good outside shooters this year.
Teams have figured out KR, JG, BB out.

How teams shut down Trevor Cooney is what they are doing to BB and JG. Face guard them and play them close and make them work hard to get shots. Neither guy can create their own shots easily.

KR may not be a good shooter but he can get by his defender and create for others.
We don’t need every player to be a shooter if enough players can shoot.

JG and BB aren’t shooting well either. Maybe letting KR play will help the defense which JB roasted postgame.
If he thinks the defense is problematic maybe play your best defensive guard in KR.

KR is not Brycen Goodine.

 

[UD1954]

Boehiem said he's going to keep the same lineup and hope they get better...the definition of insanity

 

[orangepassion]

Kadary is not a great outside shooter.

Teams have figured him out. Sag off of him and he can't drive by, and an extra defender in the paint clogs the passing lanes.

Buddy and Girard were a combined 0-11 from 3 yesterday. Their percentages all year have been low. Kadary still probably isn't as good a shooter as them, but he brings so much more to the table, in terms of Defense and getting others easy shots. I'm also a proponent that shooting is 50% skill and 50 % confidence. It's hard to shoot with confidence when you play 5 minutes a game. Boeheim himself said Kadary was a good shooter before the season-He needs minutes and a longer leash to regain some confidence. We know we're not going anywhere w/ the current game plan-What do we have to lose by giving Kadary 25 minutes/game? He was good when he was getting the consistent minutes.

 

[MikeSU02]

Buddy and Girard were a combined 0-11 from 3 yesterday. Their percentages all year have been low. Kadary still probably isn't as good a shooter as them, but he brings so much more to the table, in terms of Defense and getting others easy shots. I'm also a proponent that shooting is 50% skill and 50 % confidence. It's hard to shoot with confidence when you play 5 minutes a game. Boeheim himself said Kadary was a good shooter before the season-He needs minutes and a longer leash to regain some confidence. We know we're not going anywhere w/ the current game plan-What do we have to lose by giving Kadary 25 minutes/game? He was good when he was getting the consistent minutes.

Kadary and Bras can be all ACC level defenders.

But we’re riding the Phillip Seymour Hoffman “Make it rain” in Along Came Polly strategy of offense with Buddy and JGIII this year.

 

[Newhouser]

I'm glad Griffin scores because he may be even worse defensively than Joe and Buddy.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Kadary is not a great outside shooter.

Teams have figured him out. Sag off of him and he can't drive by, and an extra defender in the paint clogs the passing lanes.

A PG doesn't need to be a great outside shooter. KR is 10x the PG JGIII is. But unless JB lets him develop, we'll never see him improve. That my friends would be a god damn shame.

 

[Sherman20]

Kadary is not a great outside shooter.

Teams have figured him out. Sag off of him and he can't drive by, and an extra defender in the paint clogs the passing lanes.

This is a specious argument that is already getting really old, even when JB repeats it. We’ve had lots of guards over the years who were only so-so shooters (some really bad) and they found plenty of ways to get into the paint when defenders sagged off them. I mean, for years, teams didn’t even shoot many 3s and found ways to drive the ball into the paint.

 

[orangepassion]

This is a specious argument that is already getting really old, even when JB repeats it. We’ve had lots of guards over the years who were only so-so shooters (some really bad) and they found plenty of ways to get into the paint when defenders sagged off them. I mean, for years, teams didn’t even shoot many 3s and found ways to drive the ball into the paint.

Josh Pace and Billy Edelin are 2 great examples.

 

[SBU72]

I'm glad Griffin scores because he may be even worse defensively than Joe and Buddy.

Plus may even turn the ball over more! I wonder if there is a stat of %of TO per possession of the ball.

 

[SBU72]

Josh Pace and Billy Edelin are 2 great examples.

They had 5x better players around them while being better themselves. Pace's floater was high % even though teams knew he only went left!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Josh Pace and Billy Edelin are 2 great examples.

That was 18 years ago.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Josh Pace and Billy Edelin are 2 great examples.

Stevie Thompson!

 

[orangepassion]

That was 18 years ago.

The game is the same and he is probably a better shooter than both.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Buddy and Girard were a combined 0-11 from 3 yesterday. Their percentages all year have been low. Kadary still probably isn't as good a shooter as them, but he brings so much more to the table, in terms of Defense and getting others easy shots. I'm also a proponent that shooting is 50% skill and 50 % confidence. It's hard to shoot with confidence when you play 5 minutes a game. Boeheim himself said Kadary was a good shooter before the season-He needs minutes and a longer leash to regain some confidence. We know we're not going anywhere w/ the current game plan-What do we have to lose by giving Kadary 25 minutes/game? He was good when he was getting the consistent minutes.

We might lose by 20 to Pitt. Wait a minute.

In all seriousness, some of it, I'm sure, is the level of competition is a little better. That's understandable.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is a specious argument that is already getting really old, even when JB repeats it. We’ve had lots of guards over the years who were only so-so shooters (some really bad) and they found plenty of ways to get into the paint when defenders sagged off them. I mean, for years, teams didn’t even shoot many 3s and found ways to drive the ball into the paint.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The game is the same and he is probably a better shooter than both.

No it isn’t. Check the stats. They’ve extended the 3 point line 3 feet over the past 15 seasons and teams attempt more 3’s than ever now. Attempts are up 20% in the last 15 years alone. Teams used to have one or two shooters. Now most teams have at least 3. Go look at a game from 2004. It doesn’t even look the same. We could get away with packing the zone. Now we can’t.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

No it isn’t. Check the stats. They’ve extended the 3 point line 3 feet over the past 15 seasons and teams attempt more 3’s than ever now. Attempts are up 20% in the last 15 years alone. Teams used to have one or two shooters. Now most teams have at least 3. Go look at a game from 2004. It doesn’t even look the same. We could get away with packing the zone. Now we can’t.

That’s not an argument for why a PG needs to be a sharp shooter. It’s an argument for playing people on the top of the zone who can actually get the job done.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That’s not an argument for why a PG needs to be a sharp shooter. It’s an argument for playing people on the top of the zone who can actually get the job done.

oh ffs take chill. The OP argued about playing two non shooters at guard. Nothing in your post had anything to do with what you responded to me about.

You think Edelin and Pace would have as much success now as they did then? I don’t.

If they did teams wouldn’t recruit as much shooting as they do now.

 

[orangepassion]

No it isn’t. Check the stats. They’ve extended the 3 point line 3 feet over the past 15 seasons and teams attempt more 3’s than ever now. Attempts are up 20% in the last 15 years alone. Teams used to have one or two shooters. Now most teams have at least 3. Go look at a game from 2004. It doesn’t even look the same. We could get away with packing the zone. Now we can’t.

Most teams are still playing primarily Man-to-man Defense. Kadary showed he can get to the basket, score, and get others involved when he had regular minutes when Buddy was out. He would still have 2 very good shooters (at least, in theory) next to him between Girard, Boeheim, and Griffin and would probably get them better shots and hopefully an improved percentage w/ his penetration ability. Right now, the main strength of Buddy and Joe is their shooting and both of their percentages are very low. At least Griffin gives you athleticism, rebounding, shotblocking if he takes the occasional bad shot and turnovers.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Most teams are still playing primarily Man-to-man Defense. Kadary showed he can get to the basket, score, and get others involved when he had regular minutes when Buddy was out. He would still have 2 very good shooters (at least, in theory) next to him between Girard, Boeheim, and Griffin and would probably get them better shots and hopefully an improved percentage w/ his penetration ability. Right now, the main strength of Buddy and Joe is their shooting and both of their percentages are very low. At least Griffin gives you athleticism, rebounding, shotblocking if he takes the occasional bad shot and turnovers.

Again I wasn’t arguing anything about not playing Kadary. I was saying that guys like Pace AND Edelin playing together today would not work at all. Especially when we have no punch at center.

 

[orangepassion]

oh ffs take chill. The OP argued about playing two non shooters at guard. Nothing in your post had anything to do with what you responded to me about.

You think Edelin and Pace would have as much success now as they did then? I don’t.

If they did teams wouldn’t recruit as much shooting as they do now.

I did? I was just giving Edelin and Pace as 2 examples of guys who were very successful w/o much of an outside shot. Kadary would play w/ 2 other guys whose main strengths on offense is outside shooting, but we also need someone who can penetrate, create for others, and play some good Defense to balance that. Our starting guards struggle with the above.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

oh ffs take chill. The OP argued about playing two non shooters at guard. Nothing in your post had anything to do with what you responded to me about.

You think Edelin and Pace would have as much success now as they did then? I don’t.

If they did teams wouldn’t recruit as much shooting as they do now.

Oh ffs, how about listening to the perspectives of others. Wow, what a freaking concept!

 

[djcon57]

oh ffs take chill. The OP argued about playing two non shooters at guard. Nothing in your post had anything to do with what you responded to me about.

You think Edelin and Pace would have as much success now as they did then? I don’t.

If they did teams wouldn’t recruit as much shooting as they do now.

Yes i do. 100%.