Recruiting versus the portal

[Vshukla]

There have been many discussions about how our recruiting has been ineffective and how we need to “pound the portal”. Isn’t the portal just another form of recruiting? Don’t the same reasons our recruiting has struggled (uncertainty about the coaching situation, perception that the zone doesn’t prepare players for the NBA, short bench, weather etc.) apply when recruiting players from the portal?

I suppose the main differences are ages (and hopefully maturity) of the portal players and Boeheim not traveling to watch games is not as much an issue, but why do people think we can just get players from the portal and we will magically upgrade our talent?

 

[Brooky03]

I don’t fully understand fans clamoring for reliance on the portal. Transfers are more of a known quantity than high school kids. I understand it from that angle, but transfers are most often just one year rentals who aren’t terribly concerned about the team winning or losing. They’re there for stats.

Transfers are a bandaid. A bandaid that takes significant minutes away from freshman who need time to develop. If we had brought in a transfer at Forward, we’d maybe have 1 or 2 fewer losses… maybe. We’d also see Bell hurting to find minutes and nobody would know Maliq Brown was even on the team. Then the transfer would bail and we’d be in the same boat next season, choosing between inexperienced players or half-interested rentals. Some transfers will stick around but good luck predicting that.

 

[dasher]

I don’t fully understand fans clamoring for reliance on the portal. Transfers are more of a known quantity than high school kids. I understand it from that angle, but transfers are most often just one year rentals who aren’t terribly concerned about the team winning or losing. They’re there for stats.

Transfers are a bandaid. A bandaid that takes significant minutes away from freshman who need time to develop. If we had brought in a transfer at Forward, we’d maybe have 1 or 2 fewer losses… maybe. We’d also see Bell hurting to find minutes and nobody would know Maliq Brown was even on the team. Then the transfer would bail and we’d be in the same boat next season, choosing between inexperienced players or half-interested rentals. Some transfers will stick around but good luck predicting that.

Sometimes all you need is a band aid. Someone that can put you over the top. And look around college sports. All kinds of teams are improving themselves with the use of the portal. As a matter of fact, the team that won the national title in soccer just last night, had 8 guys that they got from the portal. Including the 2 All-Americans. We wouldn't be better off with a portal forward right now? We won't need a portal guard next year? Or maybe a center?

 

[Vshukla]

Sometimes all you need is a band aid. Someone that can put you over the top. And look around college sports. All kinds of teams are improving themselves with the use of the portal. As a matter of fact, the team that won the national title in soccer just last night, had 8 guys that they got from the portal. Including the 2 All-Americans. We wouldn't be better off with a portal forward right now? We won't need a portal guard next year? Or maybe a center?

I don't disagree Dasher, but my original question stands. If we are struggling to recruit top tier impact talent because of the reasons listed, why do we think we can get that difference maker through the portal? Cole was a solid player but was he a difference maker? Wes was a dozen years ago.

 

[721Comstock]

I don't disagree Dasher, but my original question stands. If we are struggling to recruit top tier impact talent because of the reasons listed, why do we think we can get that difference maker through the portal? Cole was a solid player but was he a difference maker? Wes was a dozen years ago.

The football team has landed more high-ranked transfers than we've ever been able to sign from HS.

Heck, we've got TWO former 4* $EC QB's in our QB room right now!!
Which ended up being QB1 and QB2 this past season.
That's not impactful??

Cole was absolutely a difference maker.
Can you imagine how much more awful last year's team woulda been, without Cole's contributions??
41% from 3 on volume, and 87% FT's.
He was our leading rebounder, and 2nd leading scorer, on a team that wasn't great at either of those things.

 

[dasher]

I don't disagree Dasher, but my original question stands. If we are struggling to recruit top tier impact talent because of the reasons listed, why do we think we can get that difference maker through the portal? Cole was a solid player but was he a difference maker? Wes was a dozen years ago.

It depends on your definition of difference maker. If it is a Melo. No No chance. But if it is a guy that can be the difference between winning a game and losing a game, yeah, we can. We have lost two tight games. A quality forward couldn't have made a difference in the St john's game, lost in OT and the Bryant game, lost at the buzzer? This was coaching malfeasance. I will guarantee you this, we could have had a better forward from the portal than Bell, Brown, Taylor or JBA.

 

[LaggyJon]

I don't disagree Dasher, but my original question stands. If we are struggling to recruit top tier impact talent because of the reasons listed, why do we think we can get that difference maker through the portal? Cole was a solid player but was he a difference maker? Wes was a dozen years ago.

If Wes is the standard for a "difference maker," then almost every player - portal or otherwise - will fall short. What we got out of Cole qualifies as a real success, IMO, and the kind of production that this year's team would greatly benefit from.

I don't think people are saying that the portal is a panacea for our recruiting issues, or that it's going to bring us Carmelo Part 2. People are frustrated that, beyond trying to get a backup center, we didn't even try to improve the team through the portal.

We had essentially zero returning production at forward. Dozens of forwards transferred into P6 programs this past year. If we offered our six favorite and struck out on all of them, that would be concerning but at least the effort would've been there. The frustration - right or wrong - is the perception that we stood pat with a level of talent that isn't up to snuff.

 

[Yukon]

I don’t think it’s an either or question. Recruit your core, hope they develop, and supplement with hired guns as needed. At the same time be honest with players who aren’t likely to play and help them find a landing place if they wish to go.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t think it’s an either or question. Recruit your core, hope they develop, and supplement with hired guns as needed. At the same time be honest with players who aren’t likely to play and help them find a landing place if they wish to go.

This^^^

We could’ve still had a young “core” this year while bringing in ONE veteran forward that could’ve helped us. IMO.

 

[Footey04]

I wish Cole had stayed for 1 more year.

 

[Cuse181]

There have been many discussions about how our recruiting has been ineffective and how we need to “pound the portal”. Isn’t the portal just another form of recruiting? Don’t the same reasons our recruiting has struggled (uncertainty about the coaching situation, perception that the zone doesn’t prepare players for the NBA, short bench, weather etc.) apply when recruiting players from the portal?

I suppose the main differences are ages (and hopefully maturity) of the portal players and Boeheim not traveling to watch games is not as much an issue, but why do people think we can just get players from the portal and we will magically upgrade our talent?

It’ll work because JB didn’t do it. Had he gone out and grabbed transfers and it didn’t work the argument would be he passed on freshman talent to build out future depth in favor of short term bandaids. If the results on the court aren’t positive then the hypothetical alternative will always be better.

 

[OrangeDW]

It’ll work because JB didn’t do it. Had he gone out and grabbed transfers and it didn’t work the argument would be he passed on freshman talent to build out future depth in favor of short term bandaids. If the results on the court aren’t positive then the alternative was always better.

It’s almost like we could’ve done both…..

 

[Cuse181]

It’s almost like we could’ve done both…..

And if it didn’t work the argument would be they didnt do enough of either. My point is that the results on the court are all that matter (of course) and when results are poor the grass will always be greener. Early to mid last year people were saying that Cole didn’t deserve a starting spot (some didn’t want him on the team) because he was a one trick pony, now some people act like he would’ve been a difference maker despite being the second leading scorer on a sub .500 team. I’m sure if he had come back and the team was 6-4 people would clamoring on about how he took a spot away from a possible impact frosh or another transfer.

Edit: I will note that the last time syracuse brought in multiple impact (and band aid) transfers, they missed the tournament.

 

[OrangeDW]

And if it didn’t work the argument would be they didnt do enough of either. My point is that the results on the court are all that matter (of course) and when results are poor the grass will always be greener. Early to mid last year people were saying that Cole didn’t deserve a starting spot (some didn’t want him on the team) because he was a one trick pony, now some people act like he would’ve been a difference maker despite being the second leading scorer on a sub .500 team. I’m sure if he had come back and the team was 6-4 people would clamoring on about how he took a spot away from a possible impact frosh or another transfer.

Edit: I will note that the last time syracuse brought in multiple impact (and band aid) transfers, they missed the tournament.

Because JB jacked everything up the first two months, trying to play White at the 2, Lydon at the 3, and starting Frank Howard over Gillon.

Once he played the right lineups, we were a tournament level team. Dug too deep of a hole screwing around with the wrong lineups in November/December.

Put a solid 12 and 6 type forward who plays D and can hit the 3 at 35% and this team is probably 9-2 at worse and we’re thinking tourney.

 

[CuseCrew08]

Does recruiting athletes out of high school improve our chances of getting them on the rebound?

Based on this year I'm not sure?

 

[Cuse181]

Because JB jacked everything up the first two months, trying to play White at the 2, Lydon at the 3, and starting Frank Howard over Gillon.

Once he played the right lineups, we were a tournament level team. Dug too deep of a hole screwing around with the wrong lineups in November/December.

Put a solid 12 and 6 type forward who plays D and can hit the 3 at 35% and this team is probably 9-2 at worse and we’re thinking tourney.

So Jimmy Jr. plus defense?

 

[OrangeDW]

So Jimmy Jr. plus defense?

Yeah. So more like….Ryan Blackwell.

 

[Cuse181]

Yeah. So more like….Ryan Blackwell.

I was thinking of a player who has stepped foot on the court in the last two decades

 

[OrangeDW]

I was thinking of a player who has stepped foot on the court in the last two decades

Doesn’t even have to be Gbinije, let alone Wes.

How about….Alan Griffin that takes better shots.

 

[FandumA]

I don’t fully understand fans clamoring for reliance on the portal. Transfers are more of a known quantity than high school kids. I understand it from that angle, but transfers are most often just one year rentals who aren’t terribly concerned about the team winning or losing. They’re there for stats.

Transfers are a bandaid. A bandaid that takes significant minutes away from freshman who need time to develop. If we had brought in a transfer at Forward, we’d maybe have 1 or 2 fewer losses… maybe. We’d also see Bell hurting to find minutes and nobody would know Maliq Brown was even on the team. Then the transfer would bail and we’d be in the same boat next season, choosing between inexperienced players or half-interested rentals. Some transfers will stick around but good luck predicting that.

I think that “Transfers are most often one year rentals, not concerned about winning” is a bit of a misconception. Today, if you don’t utilize the portal, you’re missing the boat. Just like recruits though, have to get the right ones and ones that fit.

That being said, some of the the best teams are utilizing transfers
Purdue-0 impact transfers thisnyear
UVA-3 of their top 6 scorers transferred in
Yukon- 2 of their top 6 scorers transferred in
Bama- 4 transfers in 4 freshmen make up their top 8
Houston - 0 impact transfers

Last years final 4
Nova- one of their best players was a Tulane transfer
Kansas- remy martin, key contributor
UNC - Brady Manek, arguably their missing piece this year.
Duke- Theo John

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think SU might have been better off bringing in four freshman and two portal kids. Younger teams are less likely to win consistently. There are exceptions, but younger is not usually better.

 

[pwong]

In this age, youre suppose to recruit HS kids to fill out your bench and develop unless theyre a top 35 kid. Then, use the portal to get impact players and fill any needs until the HS kids are ready.

JB doesn’t go on the road to recruit outside of the big aau tournaments. Just hit the portal hard, do some zoom calls for a couple weeks, then enjoy the rest of your summer lol.

 

[721Comstock]

And if it didn’t work the argument would be they didnt do enough of either. My point is that the results on the court are all that matter (of course) and when results are poor the grass will always be greener. Early to mid last year people were saying that Cole didn’t deserve a starting spot (some didn’t want him on the team) because he was a one trick pony, now some people act like he would’ve been a difference maker despite being the second leading scorer on a sub .500 team. I’m sure if he had come back and the team was 6-4 people would clamoring on about how he took a spot away from a possible impact frosh or another transfer.

Edit: I will note that the last time syracuse brought in multiple impact (and band aid) transfers, they missed the tournament.

LOL!!!

Yeah, it was totally Uncle Drew and Gillon’s fault that we didn’t make the tournament that year.

Can you imagine that team without White & Gillon??? OMG.

It’s not like either of those guys kept a HS croot away -
it was literally either them, or nobody.

You would have preferred nobody??

And as much as some fans think that entire season sucked because we didn’t make the NCAA’s, at least that team was able to compete against and actually beat multiple Top 25 teams that year.
UVA, Duke, NCSt wins, I can’t even remember the last time we won games like that.

 

[Cuse44]

HS recruiting is a 3-4 yr relationship with 15-19 yr old kids - has JB had the energy or desire to cultivate those relationships? Transfers are quicker process and almost more like a business deal which might fit better in JB yr to yr plan.

I think Cuse is trying to create a base of talent - 5 to 8 players that will be here through transition. If they took a transfer or two they would play and the base 5-8 players would likely not play and leave

It’s a tricky balance at this point in Cuse history - I’d bet the next coach hits portal harder to augment the base they hope will still be here

 

[Cuse181]

LOL!!!

Yeah, it was totally Uncle Drew and Gillon’s fault that we didn’t make the tournament that year.

Can you imagine that team without White & Gillon??? OMG.

It’s not like either of those guys kept a HS croot away -
it was literally either them, or nobody.

You would have preferred nobody??

And as much as some fans think that entire season sucked because we didn’t make the NCAA’s, at least that team was able to compete against and actually beat multiple Top 25 teams that year.
UVA, Duke, NCSt wins, I can’t even remember the last time we won games like that.

I’m not saying that team wasn’t better because they picked up white and Gillon, I’m saying that they didn’t make Syracuse a contender because bringing in single year bandaids doesn’t cover a significant lack of depth. It is simply providing a comparison to say the alternative doesn’t magically result in a top 10 Syracuse team.