Recruiting

[SWC75]

The Athletic had a good article on recruiting, as well as coaching, talking about Nebraska, Wake Forest, Pitt and the "Big Three" of Florida:

Is it recruiting or coaching at Nebraska? How can the Big 3 take back Florida? Recruiting mailbag

"The Demon Deacons have signed only one top-60 recruiting class since the 2017 cycle (they finished No. 59 in 2019).

That is insane, and it goes to show you how you can build a really good team without highly rated classes. Clawson redshirted linemen and developed a team with an explosive offense that is really fun to watch. It is a natural impulse to think, “Should Wake Forest now recruit top-30 classes after this special year?” And the reality is, it doesn’t work that way. Sure, it is good to make people view your program in a winning light, and maybe the Demon Deacons — or Pitt — will have improved classes next year when prospects can believe in the vision.

But building a program takes time. It takes steady improvement class over class for years before the real big payoff comes. Both Pat Narduzzi at Pitt and Clawson at Wake have done a phenomenal job with their teams this year in a conference that is there for the taking for the first time in a handful of years. Years like this, though, aren’t the Staples “Easy” button for landing significantly better classes. Maybe these seasons will be the catalyst for moderate improvement. But it’s important to remember that this is always about building blocks."

 

[TheCusian]

Not enough attention being paid to the super-seniors as leveling agents.

More old vets at schools like Wake can compete with young talent at Clemson.

5 to play 5 could be the key to a better CFB product

 

[UpstateSM]

Not enough attention being paid to the super-seniors as leveling agents.

More old vets at schools like Wake can compete with young talent at Clemson.

5 to play 5 could be the key to a better CFB product

I'd go all the way to 6 to play 5. Would be great for football and hoops.

And it gets more degrees to more kids, which is great and mostly ignored by fans of college sports.

 

[PhatOrange]

They should analyze the people doing the ratings. What their backgrounds and qualifications are, as well as analyze the ratings versus the paying subscriptions of each school to the specific team site. That would be a fascinating story.

I’d bet if the ratings service”s hired Clawson, he’d be their top scout and evaluation expert.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Not enough attention being paid to the super-seniors as leveling agents.

More old vets at schools like Wake can compete with young talent at Clemson.

5 to play 5 could be the key to a better CFB product

My guess is that Wake will take a step backwards next year when a lot of those players graduate. Clawson has been fortunate to have had QBs that stayed to get their PHDs.

 

[sutomcat]

My guess is that Wake will take a step backwards next year when a lot of those players graduate. Clawson has been fortunate to have had QBs that stayed to get their PHDs.

Sam Hartman's hair is getting gray and he is only a sophomore. Sigh.

 

[Goin' Deep]

To an extent, I think we're emphasizing recruiting and not the complete impact of coaching.
I think CUSE would have 2 more in the win column with better in game coaching.

 

[upperdeck]

we can blame coaching all we want.. but you can go thru pro games and every week find 5-10 that were lost by coaching mistakes and at the college level 25-40. So while in a small bubble our mistakes hurt they are no different than often is happening on the other side of the same game. WMU last night scores to go up 4 kicks the XP.. I have seen that 15-20 times this year late in games.. Babers got ripped and yeah its the wrong thing but it happens every week top to bottom. A game last week in the pros neither team had TOs with like 3-4 min to go and it hurt both teams in the end and almost all the TOs were just wasted earlier in the half.. If pros are gonna bake the same mistakes with all the money they pour into decisions its gonna happen. Saban and Belicek make the same mistakes during a game, but often they over come it because of non game time related decisions that we dont even know about. or they just have more talent at the right spots. You can call the wrong D all game but if your dline disrupts the play who every knows. and you can call the wrong plays on offense but if your qb is murray/jackson and they just run it out of trouble it really doesnt matter.

 

[money3189]

Sam Hartman's hair is getting gray and he is only a sophomore. Sigh.

Grandpa Hartman is making the most of his opportunity. Im not if there's been a QB that have started and won games for 4 years and still has two years of eligibility left.

 

[Dcuse]

To an extent, I think we're emphasizing recruiting and not the complete impact of coaching.
I think CUSE would have 2 more in the win column with better in game coaching.

We would easily have 3 to 4 more losses if it weren’t for the improved coaching on the OL and the improved design of both the offense and defense

 

[money3189]

I can't hate on Dave. He's built that program. He deserves the success he is having. Doing it at a difficult place to win. It just bothers me a little because he is a Buffalo kid. He's a new yorker at heart and he is doing exactly what we need at Syracuse.

 

[Killdozer]

We would easily have 3 to 4 more losses if it weren’t for the improved coaching on the OL and the improved design of both the offense and defense

Thankfully, other then hiring them Dino had no decision in how the new schemes were deployed.

 

[OrangePA]

The Athletic had a good article on recruiting, as well as coaching, talking about Nebraska, Wake Forest, Pitt and the "Big Three" of Florida:

Is it recruiting or coaching at Nebraska? How can the Big 3 take back Florida? Recruiting mailbag

"The Demon Deacons have signed only one top-60 recruiting class since the 2017 cycle (they finished No. 59 in 2019).

That is insane, and it goes to show you how you can build a really good team without highly rated classes. Clawson redshirted linemen and developed a team with an explosive offense that is really fun to watch. It is a natural impulse to think, “Should Wake Forest now recruit top-30 classes after this special year?” And the reality is, it doesn’t work that way. Sure, it is good to make people view your program in a winning light, and maybe the Demon Deacons — or Pitt — will have improved classes next year when prospects can believe in the vision.

But building a program takes time. It takes steady improvement class over class for years before the real big payoff comes. Both Pat Narduzzi at Pitt and Clawson at Wake have done a phenomenal job with their teams this year in a conference that is there for the taking for the first time in a handful of years. Years like this, though, aren’t the Staples “Easy” button for landing significantly better classes. Maybe these seasons will be the catalyst for moderate improvement. But it’s important to remember that this is always about building blocks."

It takes time and stability within the Program.

 

[OrangePA]

Thankfully, other then hiring them Dino had no decision in how the new schemes were deployed.

Dino hired the OL coach and the DC to implement his plan.

He conceived of the idea to utilize the 3-5-3 system well before he chose Tony White to run the defense.

 

[OrangePA]

Sam Hartman's hair is getting gray and he is only a sophomore. Sigh.

He's a really good college QB.

 

[Killdozer]

Dino hired the OL coach and the DC to implement his plan.

He conceived of the idea to utilize the 3-5-3 system well before he chose Tony White to run the defense.

It's a 3-3-5 defense and Dino has never been a DC so why would he have a plan? He may have liked what he saw from these DC's on other teams and that enticed him to make the hire. His first hire also left town before even meeting with the players.

 

[RF2044]

It's a 3-3-5 defense and Dino has never been a DC so why would he have a plan? He may have liked what he saw from these DC's on other teams and that enticed him to make the hire. His first hire also left town before even meeting with the players.

It must be getting awfully lonely on "fire Dino" island.

I imagine it is going to be even more sparsely populated over the next 2.5 years.

 

[Killdozer]

It must be getting awfully lonely on "fire Dino" island.

I imagine it is going to be even more sparsely populated over the next 2.5 years.

I'm not a "fire Dino" guy, I'm a fan that expects the head coach to not lose games due to bad coaching decisions. If he can't do that then it is time to move on from Dino. If he makes a bowl game then he may be on the right path. But Dino's past has shown he can lose the next three games just like those five straight losses to end the season after the big Clemson win. I don't have the same admiration as you do for Dino.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not a "fire Dino" guy, I'm a fan that expects the head coach to not lose games due to bad coaching decisions. If he can't do that then it is time to move on from Dino. If he makes a bowl game then he may be on the right path. But Dino's past has shown he can lose the next three games just like those five straight losses to end the season after the big Clemson win. I don't have the same admiration as you do for Dino.

The sentiment expressed in your last line seems strange -- Dino is an impressive cat, a good recruiter, and a terrific ambassador for SU football.

Now that he's got a game changing QB in place and the OL depth issues have been fixed, it's going to be a fun ride. What SU fan wouldn't want that?

By the way, he could lose the next three games because we're playing three solid opponents. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "bad coaching decisions." I think a large group of posters decided before the season that they wanted him fired, had a temper tantrum at mid season where things boiled to a head, and now that things are trending the other way that sentiment is dissipating. As well it should.

Buckle up -- it's going to be a run ride with Shrader over the next 2.5 seasons. And if reports out of camp about Lamson are true, then we are probably looking at a multi-year span of bowls. Which means that the ship would not only be righted, but the program would be in it's best spot since the late 90s. Again, what SU fan wouldn't want that?

 

[RF2044]

The Athletic had a good article on recruiting, as well as coaching, talking about Nebraska, Wake Forest, Pitt and the "Big Three" of Florida:

Is it recruiting or coaching at Nebraska? How can the Big 3 take back Florida? Recruiting mailbag

"The Demon Deacons have signed only one top-60 recruiting class since the 2017 cycle (they finished No. 59 in 2019).

That is insane, and it goes to show you how you can build a really good team without highly rated classes. Clawson redshirted linemen and developed a team with an explosive offense that is really fun to watch. It is a natural impulse to think, “Should Wake Forest now recruit top-30 classes after this special year?” And the reality is, it doesn’t work that way. Sure, it is good to make people view your program in a winning light, and maybe the Demon Deacons — or Pitt — will have improved classes next year when prospects can believe in the vision.

But building a program takes time. It takes steady improvement class over class for years before the real big payoff comes. Both Pat Narduzzi at Pitt and Clawson at Wake have done a phenomenal job with their teams this year in a conference that is there for the taking for the first time in a handful of years. Years like this, though, aren’t the Staples “Easy” button for landing significantly better classes. Maybe these seasons will be the catalyst for moderate improvement. But it’s important to remember that this is always about building blocks."

My viewpoint, from paying attention to recruiting / the college landscape over time.

There are three ways to construct a successful roster. One is to recruit highly rated players, and to over-recruit them every year. In the rare situations that blue chip recruits don't pan out -- no problem, the next one usually does. We've also seen the mathematical studies -- there's a reason why factories tend to be and stay successful, and why the success those programs experience is correlated to how well they recruit. Problem is, not all programs can recruit like that.

Another way is to capitalize by being in a fertile recruiting area, and land secondary tier players, but guys who are still good. Pitt is a good example of this, so is Cincinnati. Cincinnati isn't getting any of the top tier guys from Ohio -- OSU lands the ones that they target -- but the second tier players are still really good. A stud linebacker who is 6-0 instead of 6-3, for example. Teams that are smack dab in the middle of an area that has lots of quality football prospects are able to capitalize on that and land quality talent.

The third way is to have a good system on both sides of the ball, and recruit players who are strong system fits. I think this is where SU sits -- we can't generally compete with blue chip programs for blue chip recruits, and we aren't in a hotbed for football recruits. So we need to have solid systems in place [check] and find quality athletes who fit what we're trying to do.

 

[Killdozer]

The sentiment expressed in your last line seems strange -- Dino is an impressive cat, a good recruiter, and a terrific ambassador for SU football.

Now that he's got a game changing QB in place and the OL depth issues have been fixed, it's going to be a fun ride. What SU fan wouldn't want that?

By the way, he could lose the next three games because we're playing three solid opponents. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "bad coaching decisions." I think a large group of posters decided before the season that they wanted him fired, had a temper tantrum at mid season where things boiled to a head, and now that things are trending the other way that sentiment is dissipating. As well it should.

Buckle up -- it's going to be a run ride with Shrader over the next 2.5 seasons. And if reports out of camp about Lamson are true, then we are probably looking at a multi-year span of bowls. Which means that the ship would not only be righted, but the program would be in it's best spot since the late 90s. Again, what SU fan wouldn't want that?

All SU fans want that including me. Again, I need to see results before I have "faith without evidence". As far as Dino being impressive cat, that doesn't matter to me as a fan. I want to see wins. I agree that he is a good ambassador for SU but he is an average recruiter especially since SU has always been a tough sell. As for this season, it's not like any of SU wins are impressive. I am excited that they are above .500 and have a bowl in reach. As much as they "barely lost" they also barely won games (except Ohio). In addition, if not for the opt outs and injuries Tucker would most likely still be 4th string. Since Dino will be here next year that, IMO, is his make or break season.

 

[Bayside44]

All SU fans want that including me. Again, I need to see results before I have "faith without evidence". It's not like any of SU wins are impressive. I am excited that they are above .500 and have a bowl in reach. As much as they "barely lost" they also barely won games (except Ohio). Since Dino will be here next year that, IMO, is his make or break season.

He's won big games, he's won 10 games in a season.

All coaches call plays that goes sideways, they would be no coaches with the "standards" you laid out.

 

[Killdozer]

He's won big games, he's won 10 games in a season.

All coaches call plays that goes sideways, they would be no coaches with the "standards" you laid out.

He has also lost a lot of games that shouldn't have happened. I did not layout any "standards"! You are now just putting words in my posts. Of course, if you are calling wins a standard then you are wearing a HUGE set of orange colored glasses and don't judge by wins but the likeability of Dino.

 

[money3189]

It's a 3-3-5 defense and Dino has never been a DC so why would he have a plan? He may have liked what he saw from these DC's on other teams and that enticed him to make the hire. His first hire also left town before even meeting with the players.

How do you not give him credit for doing his research as a coach and bringing that system in? He could have not did anything and kept Ward. He could have made a bad hire. lol. He made a good hire. Give him credit. Dino has made bad decisions. We all see it and talk about it here. We also talk about the good decsions he's made. It doesnt mean we are favoring a decision to retain him when we do.

 

[Killdozer]

How do you not give him credit for doing his research as a coach and bringing that system in? He could have not did anything and kept Ward. He could have made a bad hire. lol. He made a good hire. Give him credit. Dino has made bad decisions. We all see it and talk about it here. We also talk about the good decsions he's made. It doesnt mean we are favoring a decision to retain him when we do.

I was replying to the original post of:
"Dino hired the OL coach and the DC to implement his plan. He conceived of the idea to utilize the 3-5-3 system well before he chose Tony White to run the defense."

This post is incorrect. It is NOT a 3-5-3 and also that the defensive plan of White's is NOT Dino's scheme. It had nothing to do with giving credit to anything other then what was posted.