Remember that time when Brian Kelly killed a student manager? | Syracusefan.com

Remember that time when Brian Kelly killed a student manager?

NKR1978

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So sick of the media's slobbering over ND and Kelly. That POS should be in jail for involuntary manslaughter.

Sadly, the few times Declan Sullivan has even been mentioned in the media is to credit ND for being able to move past that. I don't blame ND for that, but it is sickening that Brian Kelly is lauded as some great man because he's a good football coach when he is literally directly responsible for a 20 year old kid dying.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...st-fire-brian-kelly-over-student-death-102910
 
So sick of the media's slobbering over ND and Kelly. That POS should be in jail for involuntary manslaughter.

Sadly, the few times Declan Sullivan has even been mentioned in the media is to credit ND for being able to move past that. I don't blame ND for that, but it is sickening that Brian Kelly is lauded as some great man because he's a good football coach when he is literally directly responsible for a 20 year old kid dying.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...st-fire-brian-kelly-over-student-death-102910

Did he ever accept responsibility for that? At the time I do not remember him coming out and saying, Hey, I'm the head coach. It was my fault. It was a mistake that should never have happened. No practice tape is worth putting a student assistant at risk. I agree with you that more should have been made of this.
 
Good article. Never read it at the time.
 
Did he ever accept responsibility for that? At the time I do not remember him coming out and saying, Hey, I'm the head coach. It was my fault. It was a mistake that should never have happened. No practice tape is worth putting a student assistant at risk. I agree with you that more should have been made of this.

Legally I don't think he could have ever done that. Could have hurt him in a civil or criminal case against him/ND.
 
Family never sued civilly. Still ND supporters. They were mentioned in the huge Sports Illustrated article on ND from this past week's issue.
 
Family never sued civilly. Still ND supporters. They were mentioned in the huge Sports Illustrated article on ND from this past week's issue.

Yea, my outrage is muted. If the people who actually lost the child can move on, so should everyone...

The "undisclosed sum" for the Declan Sullivan Fund was probably pretty significant, given the above.
 
Family never sued civilly. Still ND supporters. They were mentioned in the huge Sports Illustrated article on ND from this past week's issue.

In most states he would have been considered an employee of Notre Dame so the family couldn't have sued even if they wanted to.
 
Sadly, the few times Declan Sullivan has even been mentioned in the media is to credit ND for being able to move past that. I don't blame ND for that, but it is sickening that Brian Kelly is lauded as some great man because he's a good football coach when he is literally directly responsible for a 20 year old kid dying.

I don't know, it's a miserable situation and it's obviously pretty easy to say in hindsight that it was horrible negligence and all brian kelly's fault. I also would not begin to argue that kelly is some sort of saint or even a good guy -- i really don't know. He certainly comes off as something of a jacka$$ publicly.

But, were there no other teams in the midwest who practiced outside and/or videoed those practices on that fateful day? Are coaches truly never using those lifts in winds greater than 25 mph?

I don't know, it was a bad decision but I don't know that it's really fair to blame the guy for a death of a student. Horrible situation. Bad decision. I wouldn't blame the family for wanting the guy fired or executed or something, if that was how they felt. But I'm just not sure it equates to someone being a horrible person, particularly since football loves talking about how tough the sport and the players are. It intentionally creates an environment that puts kids at risk every single day.

And, as for the media painting him to be some sort of superhuman or legendary coach, let's consider two things:

1) they do this with every coach who wins a title

2) we're talking about a program that the media has claimed for the past 15 years was a complete abyss and incapable of competing in modern day football. They almost have to tell you how good Kelly is b/c they spent 15 years explaining how it didn't matter who the coach was, the program simply couldn't win.
 
I don't know, it's a miserable situation and it's obviously pretty easy to say in hindsight that it was horrible negligence and all brian kelly's fault. I also would not begin to argue that kelly is some sort of saint or even a good guy -- i really don't know. He certainly comes off as something of a jacka$$ publicly.

But, were there no other teams in the midwest who practiced outside and/or videoed those practices on that fateful day? Are coaches truly never using those lifts in winds greater than 25 mph?

I don't know, it was a bad decision but I don't know that it's really fair to blame the guy for a death of a student. Horrible situation. Bad decision. I wouldn't blame the family for wanting the guy fired or executed or something, if that was how they felt. But I'm just not sure it equates to someone being a horrible person, particularly since football loves talking about how tough the sport and the players are. It intentionally creates an environment that puts kids at risk every single day.

And, as for the media painting him to be some sort of superhuman or legendary coach, let's consider two things:

1) they do this with every coach who wins a title

2) we're talking about a program that the media has claimed for the past 15 years was a complete abyss and incapable of competing in modern day football. They almost have to tell you how good Kelly is b/c they spent 15 years explaining how it didn't matter who the coach was, the program simply couldn't win.
I agree with you, but then again you and I are probably the only two ND football fans on this board. This situation was a tragedy and as I was reading the article with Declan in SI last week I knew someone on this board was going to bring this up at some point if ND won this weekend. It only took two days.
 
I agree with you, but then again you and I are probably the only two ND football fans on this board. This situation was a tragedy and as I was reading the article with Declan in SI last week I knew someone on this board was going to bring this up at some point if ND won this weekend. It only took two days.

For me this is more of a Brian Kelly thing than an ND thing. And I do think this is something that other coaches worry about. Brian Kelly just seems like a POS for completely disregarding another person's safety. This is from the Whitlock column about Jim Tressel:

The head football coach has final say over everything that transpires on the practice field. Everything. That’s why Ohio State’s Jim Tressel moved the Buckeyes’ practice inside on Tuesday when wind gusts made conditions unsafe.
“I don’t know if we’ll be inside or out,” Tressel told Ohio reporters 24 hours before the Notre Dame tragedy. “It looks a little nasty. I worry about our cameramen, their well-being up there 50 feet in the air.”
 
Those poor folks should be lauded during the NC game or something. Seem like wonderful people who have gone through an awful loss of a child who was helping out the FB team.
 
I agree with you, but then again you and I are probably the only two ND football fans on this board. This situation was a tragedy and as I was reading the article with Declan in SI last week I knew someone on this board was going to bring this up at some point if ND won this weekend. It only took two days.

ND is my third favorite team & I still think he should have at least caught the Indiana version of negligent homicide. God bless the Sullivan family. They're better people than me. (Although that's not a high standard.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Those poor folks should be lauded during the NC game or something. Seem like wonderful people who have gone through an awful loss of a child who was helping out the FB team.

After reading more into what the family has done since, I absolutely think there should be a piece about it during halftime. Those folks really turned tragedy into something beneficial.
 
For me this is more of a Brian Kelly thing than an ND thing. And I do think this is something that other coaches worry about. Brian Kelly just seems like a POS for completely disregarding another person's safety. This is from the Whitlock column about Jim Tressel:

The head football coach has final say over everything that transpires on the practice field. Everything. That’s why Ohio State’s Jim Tressel moved the Buckeyes’ practice inside on Tuesday when wind gusts made conditions unsafe.
“I don’t know if we’ll be inside or out,” Tressel told Ohio reporters 24 hours before the Notre Dame tragedy. “It looks a little nasty. I worry about our cameramen, their well-being up there 50 feet in the air.”

I don't think there's an argument that it was a bad decision. I'm just not sure it's fair to simply say the guy killed a kid and disregarded his safety. Tressel also points out that he didn't know if they'd be inside or out at that point. It wasn't like it was a no-brainer for him.

Horrible tragedy and BK might be a total a$$. I just don't know that it's as simple as that. What about the fact that each one of these guys ask these kids to do a ton that isn't in their best interest (spend all year focusing far more on football than anything else) or taking their personal safety into account (concussions and the after-affects of playing football, use of supplements ...) every single day.

I'm not trying to absolve BK of blame, but I'm just not sure it's a sinister and evil as you make it out to be.
 
Yea, my outrage is muted. If the people who actually lost the child can move on, so should everyone...
Would a potential case be called "Family v. Kelly" or "People v. Kelly"?
 
Would a potential case be called "Family v. Kelly" or "People v. Kelly"?

I got it. I don't like him either. But first, you are not going to get an impartial jury in that state, second, it would be People vs. Notre Dame.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/declan-sullivan-death-report_n_850539.html

I feel dirty linking huffington

Additionally, as I remember that day that front moved though really fast. It want from calm to sideways in 5 minutes. I am going with avoidable tragedy, not deliberate negligence.
 
I got it. I don't like him either. But first, you are not going to get an impartial jury in that state, second, it would be People vs. Notre Dame.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/18/declan-sullivan-death-report_n_850539.html

I feel dirty linking huffington

Additionally, as I remember that day that front moved though really fast. It want from calm to sideways in 5 minutes. I am going with avoidable tragedy, not deliberate negligence.
Acknowledged. I was only addressing the normative statement relating to the family's decision, which I do not hold as a claim on my own judgment, nor does the law.
 
In most states he would have been considered an employee of Notre Dame so the family couldn't have sued even if they wanted to.

In most states, the parents absolutely would've been able to bring a wrongful death action, regardless of whether he was an employee of ND or not. The most common way around being unable to sue your employer is by bringing/impleading a 3rd party action, etc. So, the parents could have sued the manufacturer or the lift, who in turn would plead an action against the employer, or in this case the university of ND, Brian Kelly individually, etc.

Additionally, states have strict labor laws in regards to work/falls from various heights, etc. NYS labor law 240 for instance holds the injured party harmless from heights, regardless if the individual was culpable in any capacity himself. It's known as absolute liability.

The University of ND has/had significant (if not 100%) exposure here if a suit had been brought by the family. ND likely would've hired experts, etc. to allege/argue negligent design, etc. against the manufacture in order to share some of the exposure, or even another 3rd party if that party was responsible for maintenance, etc. of the lift.

In the end though, this young man's death likely wasn't worth much from a compensatory standpoint due to how wrongful death cases are typically evaluated. He was 20, single and had no dependents, etc. If he died instantly, there would not be much of a conscious pain and suffering value after pre-impact terror, and certainly very little to nil economic loss due to the aforementioned single, etc. status.

Where this potential suit had its greatest exposure, were if the jury awarded punitive damages...that's where ND would've gotten tagged. Though, no doubt, ND would have never let this case go to trial, let alone a verdict.
 
In most states he would have been considered an employee of Notre Dame so the family couldn't have sued even if they wanted to.
wouldn't he be a volunteer, rather than an employee. I bet he didn't get a check.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2
 
wouldn't he be a volunteer, rather than an employee. I bet he didn't get a check.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

Volunteers/interns would generally be covered. orangecuse made some more interesting points about liability. I think it could go either way.
 
strong wind advisories and scissor lifts are a no go. They should have known, football was more important to them.
 

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