Rhino and Thompson out for the season | Page 7 | Syracusefan.com

Rhino and Thompson out for the season

Scooch

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I’m a huge Dino guy and happy he’s still here but injuries are part of the game and we need to move on and fill the gap it’s year 7 and I don’t want to hear it anymore Especially after 1 game. Thompson is a big loss and a great player but they need to fill the gap someway somehow and find a way to keep winning. Depth should be at least respectable, and nobody really knows who is capable of stepping up but there should be somebody or a couple guys that can plug the hole
Yup. Football is a horrifically violent sport where big, fast, strong guys collide with each other dozens of times a game. Success is determined in no small part by what team can best survive the inevitable attrition.

Losing Thompson really sucks. We'll lose other guys too. So will the teams we play. Hopefully our bruised, battered and depleted roster will be slightly better than our opponents. That's all we can wish for.
 

orangecuse

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Who said the season is over? Nobody. We still have a great defense, just not as great. How many snaps does McDonald get if Thompson doesn’t get hurt? Zero. Why no rotation like the WRs or DL or back 5? Because there’s too big a drop off. Now McDonald may become a very good player. Only time will tell. But he’s so lanky, he didn’t show a lot of quickness. The INT was great. But what else? He played more snaps than Thompson. 0 tackles and 0 QB hurries or hits. Thompson had 3 tackles and 1 QB hurry. Thompson was graded a 72 in run defense. McDonald a 48. Thompson was graded a 77 for tackling. McDonald a 26. Now McDonald had a great grade for pass defense because of the INT. But will he have an INT every game? That is Thompsons weakness but it’s also not the main role he’s asked to play.

Like someone else has said, we’ll probably use multiple players situationally. But to say there won’t be a big drop off isn’t paying attention. And so what if he didn’t make the 27 man ACC team? Neither did Shrader. It wouldn’t be a big deal? We’d just say next man up with no significant drop off? I know why a couple people are poo pooing the injury.

Attempting to argue losing a starting QB to a starting LB is, well, more than "isn't paying attention." The QB position by a landslide is the most critical position in the game. A LB is a spoke on the wheel, whereas the QB is the wheel.

FWIW, in my initial post, I did say other than losing our QB and our Heisman hopeful...

As another poster alluded to, a really good D is a sum of its parts.
 
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Cuseregular

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So the loss of these two causes the mind to think and wander. NEVER in my life have I seen not one but TWO non contact acl injuries in a game let alone in the same half to the same team.

I don’t know if any studies have been done, but I have to think a factor in this is the field turf. I’d be curious to see what the number of noncontact knee injuries are since it was instituted in most stadiums across the country.

As somebody who taught orthopedics for 30 years, and played the game at a high personal level for a lot of years, I think I have a unique perspective on this. I used to love artificial turf back in the day as a speed player because it was very firm and good for quickness moves.

But at the same time it was very bad for being too hard and injuries from being pounded into the turf (think clavicle/collar bone fractures, seperated and dislocated shoulders) not to mention worse Rugburns.

Every time I’m on this field turf I absolutely hate it and would’ve hated it as a player because it is way too spongy and not firm enough and I think that contributes to the knee injuries in the sense that allows The femur and tibia to float on one another and be too lax on each other putting way too much stress on the ligaments is my take as every time I try to make a lateral or cut move I noticed that it was hard on the knees.

Low Grass would obviously be the best but obviously that’s not an option for us here, nor is the genie going back in the bottle around the rest of the country. Not sure what the answer is, but I think it definitely contributes to the injuries.
 
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PhatOrange

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Just from the play with the interception, McDonald has good size, hands, speed, and runs well.
He just needs experience, down the road he will be a good one, it might be by the end of this year.

The interception was a nice play. He read the play saw the receiver and jumped it. Smarts. I'm bullish on McDonald. He's going to be good.

There are also a lot of backers on the team and he's the first one off the bench. He clearly earned that.
 
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SUDadx2

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So the loss of these two causes the mind to think and wander. NEVER in my life have I seen not one but TWO non contact acl injuries in a game let alone in the same half to the same team.

I don’t know if any studies have been done, but I have to think a factor in this is the field turf. I’d be curious to see what the number of noncontact knee injuries are since it was instituted in most stadiums across the country.

As somebody who taught orthopedics for 30 years, and played the game at a high personal level for a lot of years, I think I have a unique perspective on this. I used to love artificial turf back in the day as a speed player because it was very firm and good for quickness moves.

But at the same time it was very bad for being too hard and injuries from being pounded into the turf (think clavicle/collar bone fractures, seperated and dislocated shoulders) not to mention worse Rugburns.

Every time I’m on this field turf I absolutely hate it and would’ve hated it as a player because it is way too spongy and not firm enough and I think that contributes to the knee injuries in the sense that allows The femur and tibia to float on one another and be too lax on each other putting way too much stress on the ligaments is my take as every time I try to make a lateral or cut move I noticed that it was hard on the knees.

Low Grass would obviously be the best but obviously that’s not an option for us here, nor is the genie going back in the bottle around the rest of the country. Not sure what the answer is, but I think it definitely contributes to the injuries.

How old is the turf in the Dome and at the practice facilities?

I can think of at least 7 players who have gone down to “lower body injuries” that require extensive recovery time in the last year. At least three of these injuries occurred in the Dome.

- Can our turf be upgraded?

- Can more be done within our strength and conditioning program to prevent these injuries?
 

FrancoPizza

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So the loss of these two causes the mind to think and wander. NEVER in my life have I seen not one but TWO non contact acl injuries in a game let alone in the same half to the same team.
Have to wonder if the turf is becoming an issue again like it was in the 90s.
 

JRHEETER

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How old is the turf in the Dome and at the practice facilities?

I can think of at least 7 players who have gone down to “lower body injuries” that require extensive recovery time in the last year. At least three of these injuries occurred in the Dome.

- Can our turf be upgraded?

- Can more be done within our strength and conditioning program to prevent these injuries?

We got brand new turf with the brand new roof if I’m not mistaken
 

upperdeck

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Turf doesnt really get old as much as the filler needs to be maintained. I do wonder if the constant covering and uncovering for bball does anything to the surface though
 

FrancoPizza

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Turf doesnt really get old as much as the filler needs to be maintained. I do wonder if the constant covering and uncovering for bball does anything to the surface though
How many more starters do we have to lose before they consider magnetic levitation of the court?
 

texascpa

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So the loss of these two causes the mind to think and wander. NEVER in my life have I seen not one but TWO non contact acl injuries in a game let alone in the same half to the same team.

I don’t know if any studies have been done, but I have to think a factor in this is the field turf. I’d be curious to see what the number of noncontact knee injuries are since it was instituted in most stadiums across the country.

As somebody who taught orthopedics for 30 years, and played the game at a high personal level for a lot of years, I think I have a unique perspective on this. I used to love artificial turf back in the day as a speed player because it was very firm and good for quickness moves.

But at the same time it was very bad for being too hard and injuries from being pounded into the turf (think clavicle/collar bone fractures, seperated and dislocated shoulders) not to mention worse Rugburns.

Every time I’m on this field turf I absolutely hate it and would’ve hated it as a player because it is way too spongy and not firm enough and I think that contributes to the knee injuries in the sense that allows The femur and tibia to float on one another and be too lax on each other putting way too much stress on the ligaments is my take as every time I try to make a lateral or cut move I noticed that it was hard on the knees.

Low Grass would obviously be the best but obviously that’s not an option for us here, nor is the genie going back in the bottle around the rest of the country. Not sure what the answer is, but I think it definitely contributes to the injuries.

This study done a few years ago concluded PCL injuries 3x more on turf than grass, ACL injuries more than 1.5x and MCL no difference:

 

OrangeinBoston

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This study done a few years ago concluded PCL injuries 3x more on turf than grass, ACL injuries more than 1.5x and MCL no difference:

I've been concerned about this especially after women lax players went down in droves on our turf (women are even more susceptible). Maybe just throw away the turf shoes and go with flat soles?
 

Orangezoo

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So the loss of these two causes the mind to think and wander. NEVER in my life have I seen not one but TWO non contact acl injuries in a game let alone in the same half to the same team.

I don’t know if any studies have been done, but I have to think a factor in this is the field turf. I’d be curious to see what the number of noncontact knee injuries are since it was instituted in most stadiums across the country.

As somebody who taught orthopedics for 30 years, and played the game at a high personal level for a lot of years, I think I have a unique perspective on this. I used to love artificial turf back in the day as a speed player because it was very firm and good for quickness moves.

But at the same time it was very bad for being too hard and injuries from being pounded into the turf (think clavicle/collar bone fractures, seperated and dislocated shoulders) not to mention worse Rugburns.

Every time I’m on this field turf I absolutely hate it and would’ve hated it as a player because it is way too spongy and not firm enough and I think that contributes to the knee injuries in the sense that allows The femur and tibia to float on one another and be too lax on each other putting way too much stress on the ligaments is my take as every time I try to make a lateral or cut move I noticed that it was hard on the knees.

Low Grass would obviously be the best but obviously that’s not an option for us here, nor is the genie going back in the bottle around the rest of the country. Not sure what the answer is, but I think it definitely contributes to the injuries.

Funny you should bring this up as it was the first thing that was crossing my mind at halftime with these injuries and whether it's the turf.

Adding anecdotal on to your very expert analysis - after I tore my ACL and PCL during a pickup game at archbald, I've never been comfortable on turf. I played in various amateur soccer leagues after SU and had major issues trusting my knee on turf. Planting never felt natural and that loose table leg feeling was there every time. I could plant fine on grass. No issues at all there other than losing a step in general from the injury.
 

Cuseregular

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This study done a few years ago concluded PCL injuries 3x more on turf than grass, ACL injuries more than 1.5x and MCL no difference:

Wow thanks, appreciate the link and more

Yep that all makes sense, the LCL and MCL pretty much only occur from lateral trauma or the terrible triad of Donahue injury for the MCL With the ACL and meniscus, but with that sponginess of that turf allowing for more anterior and posterior glide makes total sense the ACL and the dreaded PCL would be injured more from what feels like all that extra stress and pressure on them from the turf with routine acceleration/deceleration situations, especially with cut back moves and explains these noncontact injuries.
5638EB61-F997-4919-B20C-F898EA95A501.png

The question now is is it worse with field turf like i postulate vs old time turf. Gut feeling is yes, I’d go back to old time turf accepting the greater rate of shoulder injuries (if my theory is correct) vs here the obvious greater prevalence of knee acl injuries with this new stuff.
 
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sutomcat

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We got brand new turf with the brand new roof if I’m not mistaken
Correct. The turf is just over 2 years old. It is rarely used and is not exposed to the elements. It is in fantastic shape. Likely in the best shape of any field turf field in the country.
 
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FrancoPizza

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How hard is it to engineer fake grass? Apparently harder than we think. Maybe it would be safer playing on pavement.
 

PhatOrange

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maybe it's the shoes?

I haven't seen anyone in years wearing 'turf shoes', everyone seems to wear the same cleats they wear on grass.
 

cuseincincy

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If they’re out for the season, is there an issue with elaborating beyond ‘lower body injury’?
Or is this HIPAA territory?
HIPAA does not apply to SU itself or the coaches/trainers or university employed medical staff. Only outside (private) medical professionals and medical record keeping organizations. One of the most misunderstood laws out there. SU, its coaches, medical staff and trainers are bound by FERPA which governs educational information including student medical information.
It can get confusing because a trainer working at a private clinic is bound by HIPAA to their patients there but once they go to a school/university or non medical business HIPAA no longer applies but FERPA would.

Further example, NFL team physicians/trainers are not bound by HIPAA because NFL teams are not medical organizations.
 

Bayside44

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I'm going to mangle this but I know SU has invested in a holistic approach to training and competing on the turf. But I'm not a doctor and kinda forgot the details, so...
 

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