Serious question, who here would have an easier time accepting... | Syracusefan.com

Serious question, who here would have an easier time accepting...

Zepharus

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That we lost players, and were no longer a top level player, because were were outbid by other schools and programs?


It is extremely clear that is what is going on now, and has been for a very long time. If it were all out in the mainstream open and a bidding war what would be your reaction?

I can honestly say that I could simply accept that we wouldnt/couldnt keep up with the jones here vs what we "think" is going on now...just swinging and missing on recruits left and right.

system just sucks right now...
 

OrangeFoo

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That we lost players, and were no longer a top level player, because were were outbid by other schools and programs?


It is extremely clear that is what is going on now, and has been for a very long time. If it were all out in the mainstream open and a bidding war what would be your reaction?

I can honestly say that I could simply accept that we wouldnt/couldnt keep up with the jones here vs what we "think" is going on now...just swinging and missing on recruits left and right.

system just sucks right now...
So are we saying that Virginia and Gonzaga, just to name a few, outbid us for players?

I have no doubt there are bags in play, but even if we had the best talent in the world our offensive system still sucks.
 

Orangemen

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We're not losing out to Virginia and Gonzaga paying players. It's Miami, Arizona, Kentucky, Kansas, Oregon and others (Washington ;)) who are eating our lunch.

It only takes one player a year in basketball and you are a completely different program.
 

Zepharus

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Come on lets get real. The 5s we missed out on this year didnt
"Get a bag" We simply got out recruited.

Um... you truly believe this don't you?
 

FrancoPizza

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Um... you truly believe this don't you?
Do you see any P5 or midmajors trying to poach our current coaching staff? We had the national assistant coach of the year and JB pulled a Lucy with the football. Karma.
 

HoustonCuse

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Come on lets get real. The 5s we missed out on this year didnt
"Get a bag" We simply got out recruited.

That is patently false. This very year, Darius Bazely, our highest rated recruit in maybe a decade, left us because he got a bag. It wasn’t illegal but it is exactly what happened.
 

SBU72

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Why is it that when SU loses out on recruiting a top 10 or 25 or 50 recruit its because the kid (or someone around him) was bought off? It can't be ANY other reason? Like the kid just LIKED the other school? Like the coaches, the academics, the location? Get real folks, SU is NOT like Duke where Coach K walks in and gets 75% chance of landing the kid. Or Kansas, or Kentucky. I'm not saying it might not happen. And maybe more than I think but not every time. Not 50% of the time either. If you want to insist then please show me documented proof.
 

tbonezone

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so you're dead certain and the NCAA who investigates this stuff can't prove anything ?
got evidence you'd like to share with them ?
 

kcsu

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Um... you truly believe this don't you?
Georgetown didnt give the kid a bag. T
Hop didnt give Stewart a bag.
Why dont you tell us which of the centers we whiffed on got paid since you know so much.
 

hoopsupstate

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Very seldom do we have five star centers in our back yard. We have whiffed on both Bryant and Stewart from Rochester in the past three years. There lies our problem. We aren’t perceived as a major factor with these players or our coaching staff isn’t connecting with these kids. We would have zero chance of going into a blue blood back yard and getting a five star big away from them, yet it’s happened to us twice in three years. I wonder how many trips JB actually went to visit these kids. I bet less than three visits to both of them combined. It might be three less than that.
 

OrangeXtreme

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Very seldom do we have five star centers in our back yard. We have whiffed on both Bryant and Stewart from Rochester in the past three years. There lies our problem. We aren’t perceived as a major factor with these players or our coaching staff isn’t connecting with these kids. We would have zero chance of going into a blue blood back yard and getting a five star big away from them, yet it’s happened to us twice in three years. I wonder how many trips JB actually went to visit these kids. I bet less than three visits to both of them combined. It might be three less than that.

Bryant's Mom wanted him to come to Syracuse.

Bryant wanted to get as far away from Mom as possible.

JB could have camped out in Bryant's front yard and it wouldn't have made a difference.
 

OrangeFoo

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We're not losing out to Virginia and Gonzaga paying players. It's Miami, Arizona, Kentucky, Kansas, Oregon and others (Washington ;)) who are eating our lunch.

It only takes one player a year in basketball and you are a completely different program.
My point is that Virginia and Gonzaga are elite programs who are not paying for recruits. They are examples of why losing recruits to bags is not an excuse.
 

pfister1

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That we lost players, and were no longer a top level player, because were were outbid by other schools and programs?


It is extremely clear that is what is going on now, and has been for a very long time. If it were all out in the mainstream open and a bidding war what would be your reaction?

I can honestly say that I could simply accept that we wouldnt/couldnt keep up with the jones here vs what we "think" is going on now...just swinging and missing on recruits left and right.

system just sucks right now...


I would love for Avennatti or someone to peel back the onion skin.

I know something changed in the last 5 years, or so, and I'm not sure exactly what it was, but would love to have more real insight into the various things that threads here attribute the change to:

1. Incompetence of the staff (misjudgements, lack of effort, laziness etc.).
2. Difficulty in navigating the limitations imposed by the recruiting sanctions (scholarship reductions and limitations on coaches)
3. Dropping of the ball in the transition from "Hop in Waiting" status to "No Post JB Plan" status.
4. Negative Change in the Perception of the Program (ie. All Zone all the Time, JB is a Crumudgeon, Our Offense is Bad and all those other slights that get slung around here)
5. Too Great an Emphasis on Defense as the Game is changing in a way that this no longer works (ie. Too much importance placed on long, lean and athletic and not enough on ability to dribble, distribute and score)
5. Outright cheating by those winning at the recruiting game.
6. Our not cheating as well as we did in the past.
7. Our not cheating all all.

I am definitely buying the book when it finally gets written. Would love for someone to take 100/1000 interesting recruits and break down why they made the decisions they did in a way where you feel like you are getting the full story.

Why did Josh Shelby and Billy Preston end up at Kansas?
Why did Tremont Waters get ignored by top P5 teams and then end up at LSU?
Why did Rondae Jefferson go from Chester, PA to Arizona?
Why did Lonnie Walker go from Reading, PA to Miami?
Why did Quade Green flip to UK?
Why did Tobias Harris suddenly go all Rocky Top on us?

Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Thomas Bryant...the list goes on
 
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rrlbees

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Very seldom do we have five star centers in our back yard. We have whiffed on both Bryant and Stewart from Rochester in the past three years. There lies our problem. We aren’t perceived as a major factor with these players or our coaching staff isn’t connecting with these kids. We would have zero chance of going into a blue blood back yard and getting a five star big away from them, yet it’s happened to us twice in three years. I wonder how many trips JB actually went to visit these kids. I bet less than three visits to both of them combined. It might be three less than that.

I don’t remember about Bryant but jb saw and/or visited Stewart multiple times including an in home the first day allowed by the ncaa during the spring evaluation period. JB and K both visited him on the first day.
 

007

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That we lost players, and were no longer a top level player, because were were outbid by other schools and programs?


It is extremely clear that is what is going on now, and has been for a very long time. If it were all out in the mainstream open and a bidding war what would be your reaction?

I can honestly say that I could simply accept that we wouldnt/couldnt keep up with the jones here vs what we "think" is going on now...just swinging and missing on recruits left and right.

system just sucks right now...

I, for one, don't think it's "extremely clear" this is exclusively what is/has been going on most of time. But, I'm sure it has been a factor with some of the big time recruits targeted by certain schools.

It makes the most sense to me that there have been several factors at play here. Those factors have been discussed ad nauseam.
 

Trueblue25

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Get back to recruiting Baltimore, Philly and Michigan (wherever devo came from).

Im sick of trying to keep pace with blue bloods (we’re not blue blood) in their recruiting grounds.

Lets start landing the kids who can’t handle losing again
 

hoopsupstate

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I don’t think anyone wants to hear this, but since we’ve gone on probation twice, maybe we can’t do what we use to do with our recruiting. It is something to think about.
 

OttoinGrotto

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Why is it that when SU loses out on recruiting a top 10 or 25 or 50 recruit its because the kid (or someone around him) was bought off? It can't be ANY other reason? Like the kid just LIKED the other school? Like the coaches, the academics, the location? Get real folks, SU is NOT like Duke where Coach K walks in and gets 75% chance of landing the kid. Or Kansas, or Kentucky. I'm not saying it might not happen. And maybe more than I think but not every time. Not 50% of the time either. If you want to insist then please show me documented proof.
More than possible the player does like the school/coach/whatever more... and also got a bag.

Guys, everybody gets bags. It's the bag era
 

pfister1

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How much is the cost of attendance stipend that SU legally pays, anyone know?
 

Lucid

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Stewart evidently had a good relationship with Hop or he likely would have wound up here. Now that Hop is on the left coast, the number of times we lose kids like that (at least to him) should decrease significantly. I tend to believe that the sanctions hurt us for longer, and in more ways, than most here want to admit. Even up to and including this year's recruiting class. Combined with other completely unforeseeable factors (Bazely) it's been a bad run, but I don't believe it's systemic.
 

Newhouser

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Sampson, Pearl, Cal and Fake Classes all in one regional and not one mention of checkered history. It's MLB and steroids part 2. The people who could shed light on it don't care because the fans don't care, nor the schools nor apparently the players and their families.
 

Orangemen

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Obviously not every player is getting a bag. But the good ones clearly are. Coaches are on tape talking about it.

Whether or not we are playing that game, who knows. Recruiting results would indicate that we are probably not.

I would guess we're not and I would also guess that it has hurt us on enough occasions to change the trajectory of the program from top 20 level to top 40 level.
 

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