Serious recruiting question | Syracusefan.com

Serious recruiting question

Actionthrill

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Why is it that SU no longer has any chance at big time Players? I know Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas take a lot of them but they don’t take all of them. I just wonder why we no longer can pull in 5 star recruits in basketball? Maybe you guys can answer this question.
 
My two cents. Sanctions hurt us, and rampant cheating hurt worse. Hop leaving crushed us as he owned the relationships at the player, coaches, AAU Club level. Red, Gmac, Griff are not in his league. JB without Hop is like Johnny without Ed. It will never be what it was. On the positive side the staff seems to be picking it up. They brought in a good group, Gmac did a heck of a job landing G3, and he is going to go down to the wire on Jackson which would be a huge win. Jim seems to be working it, Red has always been solid. Hopefully Griff starts to pick it now that he has a few years under his belt. In short we got hit badly with Hops departure but the guys seem to be coming back. Newt and Jackson would be a great class regardless of rank as they are both great fits.
 
A lot of what KCSU mentions.

I'll also add that after our first set of sanctions, JB decided that he didn't want to recruit those types of players anymore due to the games, having to deal with handlers, rampant cheating, etc.

We continued to recruit a lot of great players -- Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Carmelo -- but usually before those guys blew up. And once they did, and the shenanigans started, we'd back off.

Right, wrong, or indifferent -- JB doesn't want to play those games, and hasn't for many years.
 
A lot of what KCSU mentions.

I'll also add that after our first set of sanctions, JB decided that he didn't want to recruit those types of players anymore due to the games, having to deal with handlers, rampant cheating, etc.

We continued to recruit a lot of great players -- Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Carmelo -- but usually before those guys blew up. And once they did, and the shenanigans started, we'd back off.

Right, wrong, or indifferent -- JB doesn't want to play those games, and hasn't for many years.
Hopefully with the FBI investigation the cheating will subside a little.
 
forget the five stars, those have always been few and far between.

to me, the issue is that our historic recruiting sweet spot has been the 25 thru 50 kid and that we have traditionally been a selector school for the 50 to 100 kid.

we have clearly fallen off from those plateaus.

as good as kc's and rf's responses were above, i am not sure they have addressed the issues relating to these kids.

i think a big aspect is that in the big east we were always a kahuna school with more allure than we have now as a mid pack acc bumpkin.
 
I think the level of cheating grew and included not only the blue bloods but the mid tier kids too. Hurting our chances for the kids just below the elite level. i'm on the record that I think everyone cheats, but now I think mid-majors are upping their stake in the game too.
 
Why is it that SU no longer has any chance at big time Players? I know Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas take a lot of them but they don’t take all of them. I just wonder why we no longer can pull in 5 star recruits in basketball? Maybe you guys can answer this question.
One other factor is that Kentucky and Duke are bringing in 4-5 recruits every year. Back in the day, before the 1-and-done era, there would be years where Duke would only have 2 scholarships open. Or Kentucky might have a 3-player class.

Now, just about every year, Duke and Kentucky hoard about 35-40% of the class's Top 25 players. That leaves only about fifteen Top 25 guys for the likes of Kansas, UNC, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan, UCLA, Gonzaga, etc. to fend for. We're in there too, but not as much as we used to be.

One reason I slightly respect UNC > Duke is that Roy Boy often times keeps his kids in the program for 3-4 years (Jackson, Berry, Meaks, Maye, Johnson). Meanwhile, Coach K chooses to win the offseason (aka recruiting) and ride that hype. And that is a reason why we've struggled mightily against the Tar Heels and competed quite well with Duke. UNC is wildly talented and mature, while the Devils are uber-talented, but young/raw/unrefined.
 
Look at NBA draft picks as well... If I were a recruit I'm not going to Syracuse simply off the draft ... sure it's great to play in front of a huge crowd but that huge crowd isn't an NBA front office... Coach Cal has had 26 first round picks since 2010 at Kentucky with two of them being number 1 picks...Simply can't overlook that in the recruiting process and the pitch ... Love SU but coming here doesn't equate to a guaranteed first round contract or lottery contract which is big money
 
Look at NBA draft picks as well... If I were a recruit I'm not going to Syracuse simply off the draft ... sure it's great to play in front of a huge crowd but that huge crowd isn't an NBA front office... Coach Cal has had 26 first round picks since 2010 at Kentucky with two of them being number 1 picks...Simply can't overlook that in the recruiting process and the pitch ... Love SU but coming here doesn't equate to a guaranteed first round contract or lottery contract which is big money
Those guys were 1st round picks going into Kentucky. No one improves that much in one season.
Cal is a great marketer.
 
Those guys were 1st round picks going into Kentucky. No one improves that much in one season.
Cal is a great marketer.

THIS.

MOST of those guys who went 1st round, would have gone 1st round regardless of where, or even IF, they played their one season of college ball.

Meanwhile, JB takes guys who were NOT projected to be drafted, and then gets them drafted.
Who is doing the better job of "developing talent"?
 
If I were to rank the factors (and again, this is subjective so others will have differing opinions), they are...

1) JB's lull in recruiting efforts for a 2-3 year period while trying to give Gerry the keys to the car.
2) Losing Hopkins.
3) Sanctions.
4) Style of play has deteriorated.
5) Kaleb Joseph, Ron Patterson, B.J. Johnson, Chino, Chris McCullough and the two straight recruiting classes that were complete flameouts.
6) Other cheating schools.

I don't think the cheating affected us nearly as much as others believe. Also, #1 is a very divisive topic but I truly believe if JB put in the work he should have while Buddy was on the AAU circuit, we would have been better off.
 
lets just get andre jackson and scottie barnes and call it a day. nevermind i guess i missed barnes didnt include us in his final 8
 
THIS.

MOST of those guys who went 1st round, would have gone 1st round regardless of where, or even IF, they played their one season of college ball.

Meanwhile, JB takes guys who were NOT projected to be drafted, and then gets them drafted.
Who is doing the better job of "developing talent"?

The question was why can't JB get these BIG TIME players. Bc Cal and Coach K provide the most exposure with their programs for their NBA possibilities...It wasn't about developing talent...
 
The question was why can't JB get these BIG TIME players. Bc Cal and Coach K provide the most exposure with their programs for their NBA possibilities...It wasn't about developing talent...

JB & Syracuse have ALMOST NEVER GOTTEN the BIG TIME players.
Period, full stop.

There are a handful of notables, certainly, but when you think of the list of Top Ten level recruits who have gone to Syracuse in the JB era, it's the exception, not the norm.

I was going to list the high profile recruits I could remember, but of course Ray has already compiled a list of McD AA's for us:

SU Burger Boys

McDonald's All Americans

YearPlayerHigh SchoolCity
2015​
Malachi Richardson
Trenton Catholic​
Trenton, NJ​
2012​
DaJuan Coleman
Jamesville-DeWitt​
DeWitt, NY
2011​
Rakeem Christmas
Academy of the New Church​
Bryn Athyn, PA
Michael Carter-Williams
St. Andrews​
Barrington, RI
2010​
Sagemont​
Weston, FL​
2007​
Niagara Falls​
Niagara Falls, NY​
Donte' Greene
Towson Catholic​
Towson, MD​
2005​
Eric Devendorf
Oak Hill Academy​
Mouth of Wilson, VA​
2002​
Carmelo Anthony
Oak Hill Academy​
Mouth of Wilson,VA​
1992​
Michael Lloyd*
Dunbar​
Baltimore, MD​
John Wallace
Greece Athena​
Rochester, NY​
1990​
Adrian Autry
St. Nicholas of Tolentine​
Bronx, NY​
1989​
Conrad McRae
Brooklyn Technical​
Brooklyn, NY​
1988​
Billy Owens
Carlisle​
Carlisle, PA​
1986​
Derrick Coleman
Detroit Northern​
Detroit, MI​
Stephen Thompson
Crenshaw​
Los Angeles, CA​
1985​
Rodney Walker
Cardinal Gibbons​
Baltimore, MD​
1984​
Michael Brown
Dunbar​
Baltimore, MD​
1983​
Pearl Washington
Boys and Girls​
Brooklyn, NY​
1979​
Tony Bruin
Mater Christi​
Astoria, NY​
* Did not start collegiate career at Syracuse.

You'll note that we basically went a DECADE ('92-'02) from J-Dub to Melo without a single AA recruit.

HMMM?? Why do you think that might be?
Was there something that happened around that time that might have negatively impacted our recruiting??

Was there this much hand-wringing about our poor recruiting then?
Was JB washed up then?
Mailing it in?? :rolleyes:
 
JB not going to visit recruits in the past but instead sending the assistants didn’t help the cause. And at the same time other schools head coaches were there on hand. That happened a lot of times.
 
We lost Hop who was the top asst. in the country until he left. If we lose Jackson it’s really time for a change
 
How do you do fellow Cuse fans, I was just reading about this Andre Jackson fellow. I hear he is a top priority for the Orange-men but that he is also being peruses by the Huskies of Connecticut led by their coach Danny Hurley, who I understand is very handsome and in no way resembles a PCP fiend on the sidelines. Anyway I’ll hang up and listen to your thoughts
 
Live look at Cuselime logging onto Syracusefan.com

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How do you do fellow Cuse fans, I was just reading about this Andre Jackson fellow. I hear he is a top priority for the Orange-men but that he is also being peruses by the Huskies of Connecticut led by their coach Danny Hurley, who I understand is very handsome and in no way resembles a PCP fiend on the sidelines. Anyway I’ll hang up and listen to your thoughts
Just because Ray Allen got a restraining order against his Alma mater does not mean anything unusual is going on over there. That happens all the time.
 

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