some post-mortem thoughts on the Departed

[orangehomer]

now that things have died down a little:

1) scoop & kris- the merits of each player has been broken down enough. now that the sting of the ohio state loss has mostly worn off, i would rather summarize the body of work of the three seasons that these two guys were key contributors during:
-counting post-season, they were 45-2 in non-conference games (39-0 regular season) with the two losses to a butler team that went to the finals, and to an ohio state team that was in the top 5-6 in the polls for the entire season. they were 91-16 overall.
-they were 44-10 in big east regular seasons, with 2 outright regular season titles on the way to two 1 seeds and a 2 seed in the ncaa tourney. out of those losses, they lost only 5 times on the road, and only 3 times by double figures, by 10 @louisville in the freedom hall closer, by 11 to villanova at home and the lone outlier, by 22 to seton hall at home which were both during a 2-3 week span during which the wheels came off.

ultimately i think they will be remembered as 2 really good players, good program kids, that played on really good teams. i will remember them fondly, because during a season marred by off the court issues, they kept it together and won a whole bunch of games. unfortunately their will always be a "what if" shadow cast on their time here, as two really well balanced teams were derailed by losing a starter at the beginning of the post-season, which is not their fault in any way. they deserved a final four but came up short.

2) fab melo- i look back at his time here as "meh". awful freshman year, but he put in the work and improved tremendously, only to be derailed by academics (presumably). someone made a good post that i agree with, i want to blame him but he is too goofy to hate over this. all you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on. the only thing i can think that could have been done differently is that if everyone knew he was screwing up academics-wise, they should have sat him down early in the season to try to light a fire under him. by the time they punished him it was too late and he already had a foot out the door.

3) dion- going into the season i wasn't sure if we were going to get to see neon-dion or "me"on-dion, and fortunately we got to see neon-dion. i think that watching him live 20+ times this year the things that stuck out the most to me was his speed with the ball, and his footwork in traffic which is a function of body control. as much as i would love to have him back to watch for another year, i don't blame him at all for leaving now. normally i wouldn't think he should leave given where he is projected, but with him i feel differently for some reason. if he came back, i think he would be closer to "me"on-dion and while he would probably have some 30+ point games i think he would also have some 4-15 type 12 point clunkers. i'm just not sure that returning would be best for him or the program. as a general rule i think it is always better to have more good players, but in this case i thank dion for an awesome season, and i am ready to hand over the keys to MCW.

 

[EastCoast2]

Well said

 

[IthacaMatt]

Not to quibble, but Kris and Scoop should have different aggregate records, because they were parts of different classes - Scoop had a redshirt year when he was injured, and came in one year earlier than Kris.

 

[EastCoast2]

Not to quibble, but Kris and Scoop should have different aggregate records, because they were parts of different classes - Scoop had a redshirt year when he was injured, and came in one year earlier than Kris.

Right. Scoop was on an NIT team in 07-08... just sayin

 

[orangehomer]

Not to quibble, but Kris and Scoop should have different aggregate records, because they were parts of different classes - Scoop had a redshirt year when he was injured, and came in one year earlier than Kris.

i was looking at the three years where they actually played. scoop's frosh year was basically a lost year and he only played because of injuries to andy and devo, and then it turned out that he was playing hurt and he redshirted the next year. kris didn't play that much as a true freshman.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Good post and totally agree on Fab/Dion. The nucleus of MCW, DC2, Rak, and Grant is going to be SOLID moving forward the next few years. I think they could all be very special players and I think we'll forget about Kris/Scoop rather quicky.

 

[SoBristol]

Good post and totally agree on Fab/Dion. The nucleus of MCW, DC2, Rak, and Grant is going to be SOLID moving forward the next few years. I think they could all be very special players and I think we'll forget about Kris/Scoop rather quicky.

Why forget about Kris/Scoop? They were part of a terrific period in SU sports -- are we so spoiled about teams that attain #1 seeds?
That new nucleus has potential, and when it gets us two #1 seeds, or a couple of league championships, or an elite 8 (or better), or a 30 plus win season -- we can start putting them in the high ranks with Kris/Scoop (who obviously had a lot of help from teammates).

 

[tbonezone]

4 year guys fact always plays into my alltime SU player rankings. leaving early will cost you points.
as for fabricio de melo i guess i'll never really understand how a kid on a top ranked team could let the academic requirements keep him from any tourney appearance. the help is definitely there if you want it,ask for it and apply it. just a major bust imo who let his team down.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why forget about Kris/Scoop? They were part of a terrific period in SU sports -- are we so spoiled about teams that attain #1 seeds?
That new nucleus has potential, and when it gets us two #1 seeds, or a couple of league championships, or an elite 8 (or better), or a 30 plus win season -- we can start putting them in the high ranks with Kris/Scoop (who obviously had a lot of help from teammates).

This is a perspective that I think it will take time for people to come to. The end of the season is too fresh, and although I think Scoop lived up to our collective hopes and expectations, I think Kris didn't, to be honest. And Fab getting kicked off the team, to leave us without our starting center twice while they were here, I think that is going to be a big part of how we remember them, too.

I think ultimately, Scoop, Kris and Rick Jackson will be lumped together as the program guys who bridged us out of the "selfish star/comeback years" and hopefully into the new Glory Years. They were guys who changed the culture of the team for the better. They achieved a lot, but missed out on a couple LEGITIMATE chances to make another Final Four and possibly win it all.

So in a sense, they will be remembered as this generation's guys like Stevie Thompson or Adrian Autry - not in terms of how we remember their individual games, but where we place them in the context of the quality of teams they were on, the talent they displayed in comparison to other (star) players around them and the importance of the contributions they made to that success, even if we fell a couple steps short.

All in all, not a bad reputation to leave here with. Best of luck to two of the good guys, who we are all proud and happy to call Orangemen.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We can forget or choose not to forget. We all have our opinions. I agree with IthacaMatt's general lumping of Scoop/Kris/Rick too. I agree that Scoop lived up to expectations. I think we got all we could have out of Scoop. He really improved and laid it out on the court.

I didn't want to turn this into a Kris rant but it looks like I'm being forced too. Kris was an enigma to me. I could never figure out if he just wasn't that good, had potential but never reached it, or was constantly playing the game the past two years auditioning for the NBA. I don't buy any of the post-concussion stuff either. He seemed really emotionally checked out of games and we won't get into the dribbling, defensive, and rebounding woes. I never felt comfortable with him doing much of anything and often found myself yelling, "No" at the TV more often than not. Franky, I thought he was trying to mimic LBJ's physical movements/demeanor all the time more than getting back on defense. A nice guy I'm sure but I'm happy to see him move on. My blood pressure will sure benefit. Scold me all you want.