Some thoughts on Howard and Brissett

[Otto21]

Just curious what others think about this perspective on a couple things:

I agree with the coaches on Frank Howard’s main problem- he is trying to pick apart the defenses instead of being the aggressor. Boeheim says he can’t get by people, but that seems like it’s only part of it. I am wondering if Frank’s injury has changed his instincts/proclivity to be aggressive and drive to the basket. The one positive sign I saw vs NC State is that on a couple of occasions, he got in the lane and made his little floater once and had a decent drop off to Marek once that was not converted. I know that my past injury experiences severely affect my game, and unfortunately some of them I could never get past. For instance, I once slipped off of the rim and fell on my tailbone very hard bc I was indecisive about whether to hang on it or not mid flight. I could never attack the rim with the same tenacity again, no matter what. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to. To me (and I freely admit this could all be complete crap), this is much more plausible than lack of effort or regression by Frank. It is still frustrating, because no Frank offensively is almost like a less effective Buddy- he takes a lot of the clock dribbling up front, probing, usually does not make a play, and shoots open 3 pointers when he gets them.

People get frustrated when we pick and roll up top with Pascal, and I get that, but it makes sense in some ways, right? We bring their big away from the basket and we give our bigger guards perhaps the only defender on the other side of the ball that they have a chance to dribble past.

The narrative that we do not run plays continues on this board, but we have at least one firsthand report from someone sitting right behind the bench, who conveyed that plays were called on nearly every possession. That makes the notion that we do not call plays unlikely and more consistent with myopia, even though I share the same frustrations when watching our team.

Oshae seems completely lost to me right now. I recall that Paul George is his favorites player, and he has shown flashes of being a decent outside shooter. This seemed to be why he was shooting so many threes early on. When he lost the green light on that and was instructed to go inside, he continued/continues to struggle with his touch around the rim. Because of these struggles, I would not prefer that we emphasize getting him the ball (as we did at NC State for example), regardless of matchup, and instead let him do his work on the offensive glass (as long as he stops pushing off under there). I’d rather us ride Tyus all day and night, and encourage him to shoot as many 15 foot jumpers that he can effectively get off.

I most certainly do not have answers and I am certainly not trying to make excuses for any of this, just am curious if anyone else thinks this makes any sense.

Anyone else have similar (or different) thoughts on these matters?

Ps- it was clearly my more athletic friend who was dunking above and not me, the random and probably somewhat creepy forum poster

 

[Lucid]

I agree with what you said about Frank. I said something a few weeks ago about the team just having no confidence, no identity. I think that stems from them having no floor general, and that's supposed to be Frank this season. But Frank isn't Frank, and the injury is the likely reason why. If he ever regains his confidence for good, we'll be the team we should be. If not, I don't see it happening.

Brissett will feed off of Frank, and gain confidence as well.

Battle will also feed off Frank, and won't feel as if he has to carry the whole team on his back, which leads to mistakes and overplaying his hand.

Chukwu and maybe even Sidibe to a certain extent would be able to settle into their roles if they had Frank to anchor them.

There's more, but you get the idea. As Frank goes, so goes this team.

 

[stuckinbig11]

bottom line:
Frank is hesitant/afraid to go inside so dribbles a lot
Oshae is throwing the ball toward the basket instead of shooting

 

[Brooky03]

tl;dr

 

[orangecuse]

I think people should go back and look at our offensive struggles and games we lost last year, even some of the games we won and you can see very similar issues relative to the lead point guard spot. Frank struggled last year getting by his defender off the dribble, creating for teammates, just going side to side, etc., especially in games facing opponents that played aggressive D and hounding ball pressure. These issues did not rear its ugly head this year, injury or not. Frank himself stated at the end of December he was back 100% and JB uttered that Frank's physical health is not what's keeping him from "getting by anyone." A few games earlier, after the BC game, JB made the comment to Donna that Tyus was flat out better with the ball than Frank and makes plays. The reason Frank is sitting more now than ever when he plays poorly, is because this season we have options, where last year, we hadn't any.

It really just comes down to the fact that Frank isn't a point guard as he does not and has never possessed that skill set required at this most critical position in the game, especially at the high D1/P5 level. Frank is a decent shooter, and he has beautiful form on his jumper, both in the way in which he elevates and his release. It's where he should be playing, but because of having no true point on the team, he is faced with having to play a position that simply is not his 'seat on the bus.' It's the same for MD as well in being out of position at the 5 spot, except unlike the 5, the point guard spot is constantly under pressure, duress, etc. since you have the ball in your hands constantly, with the main role being getting your teammates involved, creating plays, etc. for them to be successful.

 

[cspades99]

I agree with what you said about Frank. I said something a few weeks ago about the team just having no confidence, no identity. I think that stems from them having no floor general, and that's supposed to be Frank this season. But Frank isn't Frank, and the injury is the likely reason why. If he ever regains his confidence for good, we'll be the team we should be. If not, I don't see it happening.

Brissett will feed off of Frank, and gain confidence as well.

Battle will also feed off Frank, and won't feel as if he has to carry the whole team on his back, which leads to mistakes and overplaying his hand.

Chukwu and maybe even Sidibe to a certain extent would be able to settle into their roles if they had Frank to anchor them.

There's more, but you get the idea. As Frank goes, so goes this team.

We see it more and more every year: a good backcourt masks a lot of other issues and is largely the way of good NCAA offenses (and then multi skilled stretch players are what separate the elite teams from everyone else). A great backcourt cuts down the nets. Duke is such a good example of how much they lose when their most important player, a PG, is lost. If you have a PG that can break down a defense, everything opens up. We don't have it. We usually do and it's why deficient rosters are able to make tournament runs.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Frank saying that he is 100% is not dispositive. Players want PT, baby. He plays like he is injured. The NCS game was the first game that he tried to drive. If he could play downhill our offense could click. His handle consists of keeping the ball behind his back and away from the defender. From that position his only move is a pass around the horn. A point guard should be able to shake and bake.

I could live with Tyrus dominating the ball. Works OK for some teams that have a superior player. Unfortunately, he is not a consistent star but when he is on he dominates.

 

[cspades99]

Shake and bake is the exact opposite of his game. And I can't blame him, he's not a PG. I agree that getting him to play downhill or at least instinctive and decisive is the thing to get to for the rest of the season. While we'll never score 80 a game, a dependable FH means 70 a game which is plenty with the defense (which would pick up if FH could stay on the floor with confidence, as well).

 

[orangecuse]

Frank saying that he is 100% is not dispositive. Players want PT, baby. He plays like he is injured. The NCS game was the first game that he tried to drive. If he could play downhill our offense could click. His handle consists of keeping the ball behind his back and away from the defender. From that position his only move is a pass around the horn. A point guard should be able to shake and bake.

I could live with Tyrus dominating the ball. Works OK for some teams that have a superior player. Unfortunately, he is not a consistent star but when he is on he dominates.

He has never played downhill, so that's a futile IF. IF MD was 225 lbs, he'd be perfect at the 5 spot for us. Again, go back and look at some of our losses last year as I mentioned, and you'll see precise parallels to his play in the exact same regard.

 

[cspades99]

He has never played downhill, so that's a futile IF. IF MD was 225 lbs, he'd be perfect at the 5 spot for us. Again, go back and look at some of our losses last year as I mentioned, and you'll see precise parallels to his play in the exact same regard.

True. I replied saying "downhill or instinctive" but downhill is really not something he can do.

 

[dollarbill44]

As to the pick and roll, it is usually ineffective for us because of how we run it. There is no threat of a return pass off the roll so effectively what happens is that now the is a high double team on the ball because they don't cover the 5. Eventually the defender sinks back into the paint but only after any advantage has disappeared. The pick has to either be a threat to make a 3 from the top or be a threat to cut to the hoop for a lob.

 

[kingtidge]

bottom line:
Frank is hesitant/afraid to go inside so dribbles a lot
Oshae is throwing the ball toward the basket instead of shooting

Frank's noticeably slower since coming back and he wasn't fast to begin with. It's also his ability (or inability at this point) to play effective defense... He's laterally slower in particular and has trouble sliding on time against quick opponents. His prior ability to slice into the lane on offense and distribute has also disappeared with his loss of quickness. He still gets the occasional in lane floater, but usually when the defender is not closely guarding him by mistake.

You add that all up with who he is... An inconsistent player at best (as a senior, it's not like we don't know this by now), and he has definitely regressed and can be a serious liability on the court at times.

JAB has seen this and it's why he's benched Frank more in recent games when he's not getting it done and hurting the team.

But with Carey a confidence mess, we have little alternative. It was no coincidence that after coming back against against NC State, Frank comes back in 2nd half and our run stops and the game spins quickly out of control for another blowout loss... Fatigue also played a part, but any rhythm we had on offense died when Frank came in.

A lot of us hoped this was the year that Frank would put it altogether, but reality is he can't do that. He is who he is as this point, and we've likely seen the best from him (and it was last year.)

A good night for him now is shooting a high percentage of threes that paper over his other deficiencies. It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

Oshae. He's a limited player and lack of a competent PG is hurting his output.

He's tried to improve his outside shot and has to a degree, but without a PG that can distribute to him aggressively in the lane (what should be his bread and butter), his game has diminished, not surprisingly.

I don't see him as a true NBA prospect. At a basic skills level, he can't dribble well enough when guarded and has no ability to make his own shot. The constant, repetitive turnovers he makes where he tries to dribble and bounces the ball off his foot or the defender picks his pocket easily is a problem... Happens way to often and that skill set is not in his wheelhouse, unfortunately. The lack of a competent PG is hurting his game, so he needs to focus on rebounds and second chance points. Again, not ideal, but it is what it is.

Just my 2 cents... And I could be wrong.

 

[cusefan88]

Cuse PG role MUST be able to drive and quickly and get into the paint. Sadly Frank just can't do it this year and it torpedoes a lot of the offense.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The bottom-line is they both are not very good. They have major difficiencies and have limited skill sets.

 

[kcsu]

Other than our March run last year Frank has been inconsistent at best. He has never been comfortable when pressured. Should have been a 2 but didn't have the shot. He is what he is.

 

[doc05]

The bottom-line is they both are not very good. They have major difficiencies and have limited skill sets.

I probably wouldn't go as far as saying "not very good", but both have been way overated by this board.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

As to the pick and roll, it is usually ineffective for us because of how we run it. There is no threat of a return pass off the roll so effectively what happens is that now the is a high double team on the ball because they don't cover the 5. Eventually the defender sinks back into the paint but only after any advantage has disappeared. The pick has to either be a threat to make a 3 from the top or be a threat to cut to the hoop for a lob.

It should always be Brissett. And to get Chewy out of the middle, let's just keep him on the bench. Or off in the corner.

 

[rrlbees]

It was no coincidence that after coming back against against NC State, Frank comes back in 2nd half and our run stops and the game spins quickly out of control for another blowout loss... Fatigue also played a part, but any rhythm we had on offense died when Frank came in.

Not sure why you say that. Frank was a big part of the comeback in the first half scoring 5 of our 11 points to cut the lead to the halftime score then played the whole second half and scored 13 of our 25 points while in until jb pretty much cleared the bench with under 4 to play.

 

[kingtidge]

Not sure why you say that. Frank was a big part of the comeback in the first half scoring 5 of our 11 points to cut the lead to the halftime score then played the whole second half and scored 13 of our 25 points while in until jb pretty much cleared the bench with under 4 to play.

I'm talking about the second half when we clawed back to within 1.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm talking about the second half when we clawed back to within 1.

I included the second half. Not sure what you mean by clawed our way back in either. A few minutes in was the last time we got it to 1 after Frank made back to back baskets.

 

[orangecuse]

I'm talking about the second half when we clawed back to within 1.

It was 30-27 State at the half. Sidibe dunked to start the 2nd half on a pass from OB to get it to 30-29. Beverly came down and buried a bomb 3 to make it 33-29, Frank came down and buried a three to make it 33-32. That's as close as it got in the 2nd half, as Beverly came back down again burying another 3 to make it 36-32. Frank hit a long two on the ensuing possession, 36-34, Beverly immediately hit another 3, Frank then missed and the game quickly got out of hand after that. So, the game going from 1 to 14 early in the 2nd half had nothing to do with Frank coming "back in" as he's was already in.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He has never played downhill, so that's a futile IF. IF MD was 225 lbs, he'd be perfect at the 5 spot for us. Again, go back and look at some of our losses last year as I mentioned, and you'll see precise parallels to his play in the exact same regard.

I think that he has been better on those rare occasions when we run. We saw some of it earlier in his career. He actually has pretty good vision on the break.

 

[kingtidge]

It was 30-27 State at the half. Sidibe dunked to start the 2nd half on a pass from OB to get it to 30-29. Beverly came down and buried a bomb 3 to make it 33-29, Frank came down and buried a three to make it 33-32. That's as close as it got in the 2nd half, as Beverly came back down again burying another 3 to make it 36-32. Frank hit a long two on the ensuing possession, 36-34, Beverly immediately hit another 3, Frank then missed and the game quickly got out of hand after that. So, the game going from 1 to 14 early in the 2nd half had nothing to do with Frank coming "back in" as he's was already in.

My bad.

I thought he came in a posession before th 34-35 mark, but I am wrong.

 

[orangecuse]

My bad.

I thought he came in a posession before th 34-35 mark, but I am wrong.

No worries. Now, if you had stated Frank should've at least been in the same stratosphere relative to Beverly going off from three land, well...that's a horse of a different color.

 

[kingtidge]

No worries. Now, if you had stated Frank should've at least been in the same stratosphere relative to Beverly going off from three land, well...that's a horse of a different color.

Beverly just another in a long line of guys that rattle off a career night against us...

Frank was very good shooting shooting as well - season high at 21 pts I believe... my gripes with him are on general running of the offense, carelessness with the ball/turnovers and inability to put max effort forth on defense consistently.