Story Idea For The Syr.Com Guys
- Thread starter TexanMark
- Start date
Mark, you aren't going to believe this but that nit wit upstater actually linked your exchange with him on the boneyard. Could he be so dumb as to not realize that you kicked his @ss? What I wish you would have asked him is since Syracuse has no real following, and we are jb's retirement from being awful in hoop, why doesn't anyone want UConn?
TexanMark
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He did get his ass kicked.
That was a followup (UConn being left out)...but I TKO'd him in the early rounds after catching him in a ton of
And no one is defending him so far...
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/in-...-football-who-has-most-say.40899/#post-634985
He goes on to say that UConn was first and syracuse was second. Really? Why did you finish second again to Louisville?He did get his ass kicked.
And no one is defending him so far...
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/in-...-football-who-has-most-say.40899/#post-634985
I just don't get it. Yes there are accounting inconsistencies, which makes this less than completely perfect, but the DoE publishes athletic expenses and revenues. The most recent numbers say that Syracuse makes $73,287,687, and UCONN makes $63,828,624. Actually, both schools were even in the same conference then, so we had pretty darn near the same conference exposure/payouts. Furthermore, if those numbers are at ALL related to on-field performance, they are an understatement, given that in the year since, SU sent 4 teams to a Final Four, including 2 of our 3 biggest sports, and won the Pinstripe Bowl. Unless your are breathtakingly stupid, you can't honestly argue that UCONN makes more money and keep a straight face.
SYRACUSE:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...264743d372f362f3230313320323a34323a303920414d
UCONN:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...264743d372f362f3230313320323a34333a343320414d
EXPOSURE/FOLLOWING
SU is private, whereas UCONN is public. That means two things: 1. a higher percentage of UCONN students are in state (because of the tuition break) and 2. a higher percentage of UCONN non-alumni are in state, because people tend to favor the state team. If SU and UCONN have the same following, then UCONN should have more ticket sales, because their fan base is more concentrated. That's especially true given their relative proximity to major cities. However, SU crushes UCONN in basketball attendance and beats UCONN in football attendance. Furthermore, SU CRUSHES UCONN in basketball attendance in NYC (see ANY BE Tourney), so it's not like UCONN and Syracuse are abnormalities to the general rule that private schools over perform on the road. Heck, USF games are moved to bigger off campus gyms to compensate for the SU turnout. NCSU is still PO'd about the number of SU basketball fans in Raleigh. When's the last time someone located in the other end of the country complained that the UCONN turnout was too high?
UCONN/SU FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE:
http://snyuconn.com/uconn/football/uconns-attendance-and-power-5-conferences/
UCONN/SU BASKETBALL ATTENDANCE:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2012.pdf
BIG EAST TOURNEY: (this video pretty much says it all)
ATHLETIC HISTORY
SU has one of the most storied football, basketball, AND lacrosse programs in the nation, and those are our big 3 sports. Name another school that has all 3 of their big three sports ranked in the top 15 in wins (and don't even get me started on other things, like awards [one of which is named after a SU grad] and hall of famers). No rational person could even begin to argue that UCONN has a more storied athletic dept. than Syracuse.
ACADEMICS
USNWR is far from perfect, but it is the best objective ranking system in existence. Or, at the very least, it is the most widely used. We are ranked #58 and UCONN is ranked #63. I'll cede that 5 spots is within the margin of error, but to argue that UCONN is better is objectively wrong. At best, UCONN is tied with SU. At worst (i.e. objectively) UCONN is behind SU. I realize that UCONN does more research than Syracuse, but that has nothing to do with academics. A university with an average science dept., an average engineering dept., and average medical school, a terrible math dept., no school of government, and no business school is not a better university than a university with an elite school of gov., an elite business school, an elite math dept., and an average science dept, but no engineering school, or medical school. However, the first university will get a lot more research funding. That's the situation that Syracuse and UCONN have going on. First, Syracuse stresses softer sciences, which aren't research-intensive like business, communications, architecture, and government, so we're starting with an uphill battle. However, that's only the start. We also don't have a medical school (that's owned by NY and called SUNY Upstate) and half of our science department doesn't count because we outsourced it to the state of NY via SUNY ESF. Yes, we have some of our own facilities and professors, but it doesn't make sense for us to duplicate everything when the best environmental science school in the nation is on the other end of campus and completely paid for by the NY state government. So, while we are stressing non-research-based activities and competing with an engineering school and half a science department, UCONN has an engineering school, a medical school, and a science department. UCONN also has about 30,000 students to our 21,000. The fact that their external research grants aren't 4+ times what ours are speaks volumes.
SYRACUSE:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/syracuse-university-2882
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University
UCONN:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-connecticut-29013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Connecticut
CURRENT ATHLETICS
MAJOR SPORTS: Syracuse made the BIG EAST championship game in basketball and then made the Final Four in basketball, the championship game in Lacrosse, and won the Pinstripe Bowl. UCONN didn't make the NCAA dance in basketball (DQ'd), made the tourney in baseball, but didn't do anything special, and had a losing record in football and didn't qualify for a bowl.
OVERALL STANDING: SU ranked #39 in the final Director's Cup standings, whereas UCONN was ranked #66.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...uto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/june27conf.pdf
FINANCES: Not only did SU generate about $10,000,000 more revenue, but SU actually turned a profit, whereas UCONN broke even, and we're a private school with high tuition. That matters because our athletic dept. costs are overstated by scholarships which have to cover high tuition. In other words, not only did out athletic dept. make a profit, but the rest of the university actually made more money off of our athletic dept. than our UCONN counterparts.
(see DoE source listed earlier for athletic rev./expense details)
INTANGIBLES
The ACC called Syracuse BEFORE they called FSU in '90/'91, and then again in the early '00's before Virginia politics got involved. The ACC has NEVER called UCONN. 20 years of solid interest doesn't happen at the fleeting whim of a TV executive.
http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html
CONCLUSION
No sane individual could possibly think that UCONN would have been a better add for the ACC, or that the ACC only added SU at the last minute request of a TV executive. UCONN's stadium is literally built on a toxic landfill 22 miles from campus.
LANDFILL:
http://advance.uconn.edu/1997/971027/fballqa.htm
DISTANCE FROM CAMPUS:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=uconn+football+stadium&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
Btw, notice how I cited pretty much everything that isn't common knowledge, but UCONN fans can never really seem to come up with definite and objective sources (some of which actually from UCONN)?
Drops mic...
SYRACUSE:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...264743d372f362f3230313320323a34323a303920414d
UCONN:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...264743d372f362f3230313320323a34333a343320414d
EXPOSURE/FOLLOWING
SU is private, whereas UCONN is public. That means two things: 1. a higher percentage of UCONN students are in state (because of the tuition break) and 2. a higher percentage of UCONN non-alumni are in state, because people tend to favor the state team. If SU and UCONN have the same following, then UCONN should have more ticket sales, because their fan base is more concentrated. That's especially true given their relative proximity to major cities. However, SU crushes UCONN in basketball attendance and beats UCONN in football attendance. Furthermore, SU CRUSHES UCONN in basketball attendance in NYC (see ANY BE Tourney), so it's not like UCONN and Syracuse are abnormalities to the general rule that private schools over perform on the road. Heck, USF games are moved to bigger off campus gyms to compensate for the SU turnout. NCSU is still PO'd about the number of SU basketball fans in Raleigh. When's the last time someone located in the other end of the country complained that the UCONN turnout was too high?
UCONN/SU FOOTBALL ATTENDANCE:
http://snyuconn.com/uconn/football/uconns-attendance-and-power-5-conferences/
UCONN/SU BASKETBALL ATTENDANCE:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2012.pdf
BIG EAST TOURNEY: (this video pretty much says it all)
ATHLETIC HISTORY
SU has one of the most storied football, basketball, AND lacrosse programs in the nation, and those are our big 3 sports. Name another school that has all 3 of their big three sports ranked in the top 15 in wins (and don't even get me started on other things, like awards [one of which is named after a SU grad] and hall of famers). No rational person could even begin to argue that UCONN has a more storied athletic dept. than Syracuse.
ACADEMICS
USNWR is far from perfect, but it is the best objective ranking system in existence. Or, at the very least, it is the most widely used. We are ranked #58 and UCONN is ranked #63. I'll cede that 5 spots is within the margin of error, but to argue that UCONN is better is objectively wrong. At best, UCONN is tied with SU. At worst (i.e. objectively) UCONN is behind SU. I realize that UCONN does more research than Syracuse, but that has nothing to do with academics. A university with an average science dept., an average engineering dept., and average medical school, a terrible math dept., no school of government, and no business school is not a better university than a university with an elite school of gov., an elite business school, an elite math dept., and an average science dept, but no engineering school, or medical school. However, the first university will get a lot more research funding. That's the situation that Syracuse and UCONN have going on. First, Syracuse stresses softer sciences, which aren't research-intensive like business, communications, architecture, and government, so we're starting with an uphill battle. However, that's only the start. We also don't have a medical school (that's owned by NY and called SUNY Upstate) and half of our science department doesn't count because we outsourced it to the state of NY via SUNY ESF. Yes, we have some of our own facilities and professors, but it doesn't make sense for us to duplicate everything when the best environmental science school in the nation is on the other end of campus and completely paid for by the NY state government. So, while we are stressing non-research-based activities and competing with an engineering school and half a science department, UCONN has an engineering school, a medical school, and a science department. UCONN also has about 30,000 students to our 21,000. The fact that their external research grants aren't 4+ times what ours are speaks volumes.
SYRACUSE:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/syracuse-university-2882
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University
UCONN:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/university-of-connecticut-29013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Connecticut
CURRENT ATHLETICS
MAJOR SPORTS: Syracuse made the BIG EAST championship game in basketball and then made the Final Four in basketball, the championship game in Lacrosse, and won the Pinstripe Bowl. UCONN didn't make the NCAA dance in basketball (DQ'd), made the tourney in baseball, but didn't do anything special, and had a losing record in football and didn't qualify for a bowl.
OVERALL STANDING: SU ranked #39 in the final Director's Cup standings, whereas UCONN was ranked #66.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools...uto_pdf/2013-14/misc_non_event/june27conf.pdf
FINANCES: Not only did SU generate about $10,000,000 more revenue, but SU actually turned a profit, whereas UCONN broke even, and we're a private school with high tuition. That matters because our athletic dept. costs are overstated by scholarships which have to cover high tuition. In other words, not only did out athletic dept. make a profit, but the rest of the university actually made more money off of our athletic dept. than our UCONN counterparts.
(see DoE source listed earlier for athletic rev./expense details)
INTANGIBLES
The ACC called Syracuse BEFORE they called FSU in '90/'91, and then again in the early '00's before Virginia politics got involved. The ACC has NEVER called UCONN. 20 years of solid interest doesn't happen at the fleeting whim of a TV executive.
http://nolefan.org/summary/fsu_acc.html
CONCLUSION
No sane individual could possibly think that UCONN would have been a better add for the ACC, or that the ACC only added SU at the last minute request of a TV executive. UCONN's stadium is literally built on a toxic landfill 22 miles from campus.
LANDFILL:
http://advance.uconn.edu/1997/971027/fballqa.htm
DISTANCE FROM CAMPUS:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=uconn+football+stadium&ie=UTF-8&hl=en
Btw, notice how I cited pretty much everything that isn't common knowledge, but UCONN fans can never really seem to come up with definite and objective sources (some of which actually from UCONN)?
Drops mic...
Oh, and I even forgot to mention that while in the BIG EAST, we have about twice the 3rd tier coverage of UCONN. They have over 300 hours on SNY. We have over 300 hours on SNY and 365 on TWC.
http://www.nunesmagician.com/2010/9/15/1691297/syracuse-sees-uconns-sny-deal-and
Re-drops mic... (LOL)
Good job.
All4SU
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It's a good question. Really makes you wonder what is going on there. I know there has been some finger-pointing in the last year or so, but you have to think it would be a top priority for everyone right up to TGD. This is a critical time for us, and we need every advantage we can get. Putting us at a disadvantage in scheduling again would be a major blow.
Orangepace
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Two things... UConn is a public school and you all can correct me if wrong, but I'm highly certain a public university that receives state funding is not allowed to show an athletic department loss... This same thing happens at Rutgers. The athletics dept gets allocated a larger portion of the state funding to show it at break even, pulling valuable funds away from academics. The term revenue as it relates to these schools is more closely aligned to actual revenues earned, plus allocations. SU shows a profit, because the school doesn't require borrowing from the general fund to support ops.
And secondly... The "drops mic" literally made me shout BooM! I just couldn't resist.
HtownOrange
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In regard to our revenue numbers, did we receive a Big East payout? I don't think we did. If so, didn't UConn's Big East payout go up? In other words, if I am correct, the disparity is greater than the $10MM in the published numbers.
HtownOrange
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For UConn, the guy claims $24.8MM in T# rights. However, the column specifically is titled "Rights/Licensing". The UConn poster obviously disregarded the definition:
Rights/Licensing: Includes revenue for athletics from radio and television broadcasts, Internet and ecommerce rights received from institution-negotiated contracts, the NCAA and conference revenue sharing arrangements; ; and revenue from corporate sponsorships, licensing, sales of advertisements, trademarks and royalties. Includes the value of in-kind products and services provided as part of the sponsorship (e.g., equipment, apparel, soft drinks, water and isotonic products).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ollege-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
The UConn poster claimed all of this as Tier 3 rights. Rather generous of him to do so to UConn, but highly inaccurate and disingenuous.
Rights/Licensing: Includes revenue for athletics from radio and television broadcasts, Internet and ecommerce rights received from institution-negotiated contracts, the NCAA and conference revenue sharing arrangements; ; and revenue from corporate sponsorships, licensing, sales of advertisements, trademarks and royalties. Includes the value of in-kind products and services provided as part of the sponsorship (e.g., equipment, apparel, soft drinks, water and isotonic products).
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ollege-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
The UConn poster claimed all of this as Tier 3 rights. Rather generous of him to do so to UConn, but highly inaccurate and disingenuous.
TexanMark
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Yes it was...he was playing with: old data too to make his case on revenue (and when caught using half-truths he tried to claim we were doing Rutgers tricks with revenue), one person sample sizes to make claims no one cares about Syracuse Athletics in Rochester and Buffalo, claims that UConn was near Top 10 in BB attendance when Top 20-25 is more accurate. Love that he called us "Frozen Tundra" when he lives in Buffalo or some such place in WNY.
ImperialOrange
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Everytime I see a school "break even" I just assume they lost millions and the school itself picked up the tab. The $4 million SU profit is likely much more than thought over UConn's reported $0.
and UConn
HtownOrange
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Can't fix stupid. You tried, and even truth cannot help him because he doesn't like it.
ImperialOrange
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Welcome to America circa 2013
Orangepace
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Yup. Exactly what I was thinkingEverytime I see a school "break even" I just assume they lost millions and the school itself picked up the tab. The $4 million SU profit is likely much more than thought over UConn's reported $0.
and UConn
HtownOrange
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Everytime I see a school "break even" I just assume they lost millions and the school itself picked up the tab. The $4 million SU profit is likely much more than thought over UConn's reported $0.
and UConn
Even more so when you consider the data from: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/spor...ollege-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1
UConn shows break even results but look at the Student Fees ($8.744MM) and School Funds ($6.285MM). This basically states that UConn operates at least $15MM in the red, annually.
Compare to Syracuse $4MM profit, that is a $19MM differential. Plus, Syracuse did not receive BE payouts once they notified the BE they were leaving. Payouts were approximately $8MM (from memory, any accurate report would be appreciated). Now add in ACC money and we will be operating at roughly a $40MM difference between our profit and their losses. It will actually be much greater as UConn will lose more on their new TV deal and I'm on a four day weekend so I'm too lazy to see how much less they will be making.
YearTicket
SalesStudent
FeesSchool
FundsContri-
butionsRights/
LicensingOther
RevenueTotal
RevenueScholar-
shipsCoaching
StaffBuilding/
GroundsOther
ExpensesTotal
Expenses
2011
$10,628,171 $8,744,642 $6,285,081 $9,586,800 $24,807,029 $3,037,617 $63,089,340 $10,369,008 $24,284,329 $1,754,333 $26,586,313 $62,993,9832010
$11,469,043 $8,626,506 $5,951,523 $5,950,265 $23,485,333 $3,023,049 $58,505,719 $9,972,360 $22,446,533 $2,215,245 $23,744,952 $58,379,0902009
$11,315,666 $8,163,198 $5,618,083 $9,299,748 $21,661,143 $2,388,603 $58,446,441 $9,275,698 $21,658,900 $3,611,548 $23,809,280 $58,355,4262008
$11,597,292 $7,496,532 $3,688,686 $11,747,076 $18,782,895 $1,905,522 $55,218,003 $8,810,389 $20,751,019 $2,380,166 $23,083,800 $55,025,3742007
$13,437,072 $6,792,437 $3,630,112 $12,163,581 $14,923,915 $1,895,810 $52,842,927 $8,488,837 $18,521,330 $2,778,275 $23,007,481 $52,795,9232006
$13,334,815 $6,348,072 $3,553,809 $10,082,536 $14,252,957 $2,354,794 $49,926,983 $7,702,354 $18,257,845 $2,967,590 $20,984,326 $49,912,115Sorry it looks bad. I don't know how to reformat the data for easy reading. The first blue number in each line is Student Fees, the second is School Funds.
BlackKnight76
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That may be one of the great posts in board history. Bravo sir.
On the academic side, I'd like to add that we do have a good engineering program, as does UConn, they're probably about the same. Our Architecture school, however, was ranked something like #2 in the country a few years ago. Between Newhouse, Maxwell, and School or Architecture, we have three major colleges in the top three of their respective subjects in the nation, it's absurd that as a university we've been bouncing around the 50s for a few years now.
On the academic side, I'd like to add that we do have a good engineering program, as does UConn, they're probably about the same. Our Architecture school, however, was ranked something like #2 in the country a few years ago. Between Newhouse, Maxwell, and School or Architecture, we have three major colleges in the top three of their respective subjects in the nation, it's absurd that as a university we've been bouncing around the 50s for a few years now.
ImperialOrange
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They should charge students if they don't attend home games.
BlackKnight76
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There is a student fee, right now it doesn't go towards athletics. All non-revenues are free, only football/mbb cost money for tix. There were talks of adding to the student fee and changing the ticketing structure while I was there, and it seemed to have legs, but I have no idea where that is at this point.
I agree. We are top 50, if not top 40. Maxwell, SU School of Architecture, and Newhouse all fight for a #1 ranking on a yearly basis. I could be wrong, but I think that either our info tech school or program also fights for a #1 ranking. Even Whitman is usually top 40, with several (major) programs in, or around, the top 10. I think that law, engineering, science, and math/writing are all good, but not great and that's what holds us down, but it's deceptive. In the last 3-4 years the law school has moved from #120 to about 90 (#84 last year and #96 right now), math/writing are very hard to rank (i.e. writing is almost 100% subjective and math is a degree that is generally coupled with another degree, like econ., physics, or engineering - not SU's perceived strengths), and our science rankings are severely understated. A lot of the rankings has to do with reputation, which, in the world of science, has to do with research, which screws us because SUNY ESF and SUNY Upstate research doesn't count, even though SU students use SUNY facilities, take SUNY classes, and interact with SUNY students/professors in and out of class in every imaginable way. The only reason why SUNY doesn't count for SU is because of admin. reasons. It makes more sense for SU to let NY state pay for SU's science/med. facilities, and it makes more sense for NY State to fund two SUNY schools near SU for A) historical reasons (SUNY Upstate was part of SU until the 1960's) and B) practical reasons (ESF has access to world class resources via SU, so NYS can have an a full and competitive institution to give a tuition break to CNY residents without having to fund a bunch of other colleges in CNY or move to Cortland and better fund SUNY Cortland)
SU isn't bad at anything. As it stands right now, we are between good and elite at pretty much everything. And frankly, I think that the move to the ACC will have substantial advantages. IMO, conference academic arms, the ACCIAC, will start promoting inter-institutional distance learning class (the B1G CIC has already started this with select language classes), and I think will make a HUGE difference. The day SU engineering students are able to take some Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech classes remotely is the day that our school of engineering moves from "good" to "very good," which will have the side advantage of moving the perception of our math dept. from "good" to "very good." The same goes for law. The day that the SU School of Law can say that an alum was the VP of the United States (check), they have a shiny new building (which is currently under construction) and that they offer a few remote courses in association with Duke, UNC, and Notre Dame, and UVA is the day SU law begins to shoot up into the top 50 in law. For anyone wondering, PSU actually has two law school campus and uses remote viewing for almost all of their law classes, so it can be done.
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