Tailgating and Tickets (a business perspective)

[chakka3421]

I know that tailgating has been discussed in different threads, but in defense of the athletic department is that SU needs concession and beer sales to pay for Dome operations. The main reasons SU doesnt care to promote or provide for meaningful tailgate experience like other universities are:

1. Pre ACC move - SU Athletics was facing stagnant revenue streams yet costs were continuing to increase - concession sales covers the cost of Dome operations far more than the sale of a few thousand extra ticket sales (and cost of marketing).

2. Beer - beer sales is a huge revenue source for Dome operations - Dome operations are run by Syracuse Athletics. If you increase tailgating, less money will be spent for beer at the Dome.

3. Tailgating and Tickets - there is no evidence that tailgating will drive increased ticket sales.

While I am not against tailgating (sorry Fine Lot), the most important advantage SU has over other universities is beer sales inside the stadium.

With increased revenue from the ACC, I am more in favor of promoting ticket sales (along with facilities improvements like the IPF). Advertising ticket sales is very costly when you run on a shoe string budget like the Athletic Department has been doing for the past few decades. My hope is that more ACC money will be spent on marketing and with better opponents and more wins - hopefully should have much more of an impact than tailgating to generate ticket sales.

Maybe we can put this tailgating experience issue to bed - until you shut down beer sales in the Dome, tailgating doesnt make much sense from a business perspective since most fans can get beer inside the stadium and can drink in game.

 

[CuseTroop]

So what you're saying is, we need to drink more... Challenge accepted. Someone fly me to the dome, I'll increase beer sales in the dome.

idk about everyone else, but I could tailgate for hours, and still drink the same amount in the dome.. As long as someone is driving me home of course

 

[rrlbees]

Completely disagree. Tailgating falls under fan experience. Improved fan experience leads to a bump in fans. More fans increases revenue in many ways. Far more than selling more beer.

Btw, I don't believe tailgater buy any more or less beer in the Dome whether they tailgate or not.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[OttoMets]

Completely disagree. Tailgating falls under fan experience. Improved fan experience leads to a bump in fans. More fans increases revenue in many ways. Far more than selling more beer.

Btw, I don't believe tailgater buy any more or less beer in the Dome whether they tailgate or not.

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Yeah. I believe chakka's reporting of SU's rationale, but I think they're wrong. If anything, the patron who has a few drinks before coming into the Dome is more likely to spend money in the building.

This is, of course, why casinos give players free drinks. Drinking --> lower inhibitions --> spending.

 

[OttoMets]

,,,

With increased revenue from the ACC, I am more in favor of promoting ticket sales (along with facilities improvements like the IPF). Advertising ticket sales is very costly when you run on a shoe string budget like the Athletic Department has been doing for the past few decades. My hope is that more ACC money will be spent on marketing and with better opponents and more wins - hopefully should have much more of an impact than tailgating to generate ticket sales.

Maybe we can put this tailgating experience issue to bed - until you shut down beer sales in the Dome, tailgating doesnt make much sense from a business perspective since most fans can get beer inside the stadium and can drink in game.

Also, one more point: none of this prevents SU from adding to the atmosphere with its own money-making tailgate. They already do rather well with concession sales on the Quad (I gravitated toward the Fine lot as last season went on, but over the last three years, Quad concession lines have been pretty long on all but the worst weather days).

Start selling beer out there.

 

[MarcusPitt]

Tailgateing is what you make of it. I've been in most of the lots around the dome and skytop. To me,skytop feels like the best experience. When you get a good crowd,it's most set up like any major sports arena parking. Everyone has their trunks poped and partying. You'll find plenty of footballs being thrown,as well as bean bag tosses. You can't walk to the dome,but the busses are plentiful. Plus it's cheap! It costs me $40 to park at Heinz field when Su rolls into town. Pitt's tailgates are truly pathetic...

 

[690West]

Exact opposite. More tailgate beers consumed equal more dome beer sales. I have been tailgating in north Manley for 17 years and know this to be fact

The tailgating experience, or lack there of, has to do with the location of the dome and the fact there's no huge lot right outside the stadium. Nothing more nothing less

 

[chakka3421]

Yeah. I believe chakka's reporting of SU's rationale, but I think they're wrong. If anything, the patron who has a few drinks before coming into the Dome is more likely to spend money in the building.

Tailgating is not a priority up on the hill...way too many other issues and the athletic department is in a state of flux given the move to the ACC and the search for a new Chancellor. However, the argument about tailgating could gain traction with the new Chancellor and Athletic Director if argued from a better business perspective.

I floated the idea pre ACC that a true tailgating environment will transform more "casual" fans into "hard core season ticket holders" generating increased steady revenue streams for the athletic department. That idea caught some interest but no one up on the hill really has the power to do anything about it given all the changes coming in the next year to the athletic department.

 

[rrlbees]

Tailgating is not a priority up on the hill...way too many other issues and the athletic department is in a state of flux given the move to the ACC and the search for a new Chancellor. However, the argument about tailgating could gain traction with the new Chancellor and Athletic Director if argued from a better business perspective.

I floated the idea pre ACC that a true tailgating environment will transform more "casual" fans into "hard core season ticket holders" generating increased steady revenue streams for the athletic department. That idea caught some interest but no one up on the hill really has the power to do anything about it given all the changes coming in the next year to the athletic department.

Others have floated tailgating ideas to SU for years. They don't get it.

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[All4SU]

Completely disagree. Tailgating falls under fan experience. Improved fan experience leads to a bump in fans. More fans increases revenue in many ways. Far more than selling more beer.

Btw, I don't believe tailgater buy any more or less beer in the Dome whether they tailgate or not.

Sent using my Commodore 64

I am guessing this is right.

 

[Cuseregular]

not mutually exclusive, in fact as noted by others one would drive the other. Brain trusts up there don't get this to their own disadvantage $ wise. As said maybe some new minds up there will get the math.

 

[Scooch]

Others have floated tailgating ideas to SU for years. They don't get it.

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I don't doubt that the SU admin doesn't understand or appreciate tailgating.

That being said, it's up to the fans. If you want to tailgate then there's places to tailgate. Yeah it's not ideal given the location of the Dome and having a bunch of far flung lots, but it's not some unbearable burden if one really wants to tailgate.

 

[xc84]

It's about priorities and options. First, some options are limited. The parking lots are what they are...so the call for one big lot is a waste of breath. I also don't think the "one big lot" idea is necessary for great tailgates. Second, whenever money is spent, they have to look at the best bang for the buck. I am not saying improving the tailgating experience would not provide bang for buck, but I would suggest that the SU Admin. believe their are better areas to spend the limited amount of funds they have or could generate. Third, this has nothing to do with beer sales in the dome and more & more universities are adding beer sales. This is not a planned strategy to reduce the tailgating experience so that people will buy more beer in the stadiums...that's silly. And like others have implied... the people who drink before the game are most likely to drink during it. Tailgating and ticket sales are symbiotic. They feed off one another and both feed off winning records and successful programs.

 

[xc84]

I don't doubt that the SU admin doesn't understand or appreciate tailgating.

That being said, it's up to the fans. If you want to tailgate then there's places to tailgate. Yeah it's not ideal given the location of the Dome and having a bunch of far flung lots, but it's not some unbearable burden if one really wants to tailgate.

My take is this. It's not the same as one huge lot but that's ok. I have been to stadiums with big lots too... honestly, I don't find the experience any better just because of the parking lots. There is certainly more "tailgate sophistication" at some other schools but that's not because of some sort of magic related to large lots.

 

[cuseinchina]

Maybe people don't tailgate due to the shock of going from 36 degrees outside to 96 degrees in the Dome. Plus with the wind in that area the parking lots are really not pleasant places to be in cold weather. Not being wimpy, just being realistic. Putting something BIG up on the quad with lots of side entertainment and some tents with heatlamps would work really well. I don't get the SU won't apply the resources argument because this is simple to implement and a money winner. I also don't get the - can't do this with all the changes in the athletic department with joining the ACC - is this really that complex/controversial?? Going in to the ACC we should want to up our gameday experience. And does the search for a new chancellor really have anything at all to do with some tents with beer on the quad??

 

[xc84]

Maybe people don't tailgate due to the shock of going from 36 degrees outside to 96 degrees in the Dome. Plus with the wind in that area the parking lots are really not pleasant places to be in cold weather. Not being wimpy, just being realistic. Putting something BIG up on the quad with lots of side entertainment and some tents with heatlamps would work really well. I don't get the SU won't apply the resources argument because this is simple to implement and a money winner. I also don't get the - can't do this with all the changes in the athletic department with joining the ACC - is this really that complex/controversial?? Going in to the ACC we should want to up our gameday experience. And does the search for a new chancellor really have anything at all to do with some tents with beer on the quad??

They already have something big on the quad. I like it fine sometimes but it's not a "tailgate". Most games the weather has been fine. I can recall maybe 2 times in the last 2 seasons where weather has been a factor. Heat lamps and beer tents? I am not trying to be critical but I don't think you have really cited the real areas requiring improvement for TAILGATING. I think others have. Better/more toilet facilities is big. More school involvement (cheerleaders, band, etc going to tailgates like in other places). Marketing tailgating. Create some unique "traditions". Numbers will also increase with wins and that somewhat improves the tailgate experience...but that's not something that can be controlled.

 

[OttoMets]

Others have floated tailgating ideas to SU for years. They don't get it.

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Oversight of different departments and promoting a unified approach to enhancing the experience doesn't seem to be a strong suit. University-wide, there is far too little attention paid to the details. It's been very disappointing.

 

[KaiserUEO]

youre either a tailgater or youre not.

youre either a whiskey drinker or a milk drinker.

id say that other than the select few designated drivers, most tailgate drinkers are going to be drinking during the game.

now food? different story. a proper tailgate leaves ones belly full and no need for a domedog or anything else, save the aformentioned domefoams. but i seriously doubt anyone will go to any game/stadium for the food experience.

ive come to the conclusion that most cnyers like to bitch about whatever they can and the game experience is a poplular topic. personally, i like the uniqueness of Dome tailgating. it feels like 'college'. ive seen the Orange play at Giants Stadium 4x now...1x as a student and 3x as an alumnus and while its cool, its not the same. its too corporate, too professional with its perfect layout.

embrace the side lots. embrace the bus from your spot to the dropoff and the walk through campus. soak in that college atmosphere. i wish i had more of an opportunity to do so. you want an open lot to tailgate, go to a bills game. please go to a bills game the wilsons tell me, they will come for a pick and drop off if you need. the Orange schedule just made a permanent upgrade, with or without game in the Meadowlands. GO. TAILGATE. EAT DRINK AND BE MERRY.

in short...drink the whiskey, put down the milk...and shutup and enjoy yourself.

Oh Lord

 

[OttoMets]

They already have something big on the quad. I like it fine sometimes but it's not a "tailgate". Most games the weather has been fine. I can recall maybe 2 times in the last 2 seasons where weather has been a factor. Heat lamps and beer tents? I am not trying to be critical but I don't think you have really cited the real areas requiring improvement for TAILGATING. I think others have. Better/more toilet facilities is big. More school involvement (cheerleaders, band, etc going to tailgates like in other places). Marketing tailgating. Create some unique "traditions". Numbers will also increase with wins and that somewhat improves the tailgate experience...but that's not something that can be controlled.

That's more of a problem west of campus; bathrooms is one of the few things that's done right on the Quad - HBC, Bowne, the chapel are all open and offer a relatively clean and very convenient bathroom experience.

Not sure how things work at Manley; I know arena/lobby access has gotten more restricted since they installed electronic key swipes last year. But West Campus is lacking. As Mark says, it should be so easy (especially with all the lots and streets torn up for construction) to run out a couple water lines and some metered electricity. And it should be no trouble to open up bathrooms in Campus West, the law building, and Sadler's new dining hall for tailgate use. But SUCOL, Food Services, Parking and Transit, Campus Planning and Design don't care (and don't work very well together anyway).

I'm supportive of much of what Chancy Nancy has done. But -- and I have fairly extensive higher ed experience -- I've never seen a university that's so careless with day-to-day tasks. It's a cultural problem, for sure, but one could hope that there would be some pressure from the top to improve things.

 

[cuseinchina]

They already have something big on the quad. I like it fine sometimes but it's not a "tailgate". Most games the weather has been fine. I can recall maybe 2 times in the last 2 seasons where weather has been a factor. Heat lamps and beer tents? I am not trying to be critical but I don't think you have really cited the real areas requiring improvement for TAILGATING. I think others have. Better/more toilet facilities is big. More school involvement (cheerleaders, band, etc going to tailgates like in other places). Marketing tailgating. Create some unique "traditions". Numbers will also increase with wins and that somewhat improves the tailgate experience...but that's not something that can be controlled.

The quad provides a centralized location for what you are describing...with the parking situation you can't do those things in however many individual lots - but you can have a serious pre-game party atmosphere on the quad. The last home game I attended I remember a bunch of old dudes standing around eating cold hot dogs outside the Physics building - not a dynamic pre-game environment. So maybe a serious pre-game party on the quad with stuff for kids, band, cheerleaders, lots of bathrooms, beer, and yes some heat lamps would work. maybe that's not traditional tailgating but it's something for people to get excited about. And cold windy weather is a deterrent even if it wasn't cold or windy last season - if people expect it to be nasty outside and are going to the game in a nice warm dome -they may be predisposed against tailgating - so even if it's warm it doesn't happen because it's just not something people consider. I mean at BC they have an ok tailgate - it's often cold but people are going to be watching the game in the cold so it's not a deterrent - they also have the one big grassy lot that is not exposed to the wind.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't doubt that the SU admin doesn't understand or appreciate tailgating.

That being said, it's up to the fans. If you want to tailgate then there's places to tailgate. Yeah it's not ideal given the location of the Dome and having a bunch of far flung lots, but it's not some unbearable burden if one really wants to tailgate.

We do tailgate and we do it well.

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[xc84]

The quad provides a centralized location for what you are describing...with the parking situation you can't do those things in however many individual lots - but you can have a serious pre-game party atmosphere on the quad. The last home game I attended I remember a bunch of old dudes standing around eating cold hot dogs outside the Physics building - not a dynamic pre-game environment. So maybe a serious pre-game party on the quad with stuff for kids, band, cheerleaders, lots of bathrooms, beer, and yes some heat lamps would work. maybe that's not traditional tailgating but it's something for people to get excited about. And cold windy weather is a deterrent even if it wasn't cold or windy last season - if people expect it to be nasty outside and are going to the game in a nice warm dome -they may be predisposed against tailgating - so even if it's warm it doesn't happen because it's just not something people consider. I mean at BC they have an ok tailgate - it's often cold but people are going to be watching the game in the cold so it's not a deterrent - they also have the one big grassy lot that is not exposed to the wind.

Maybe you have not been there in a while. They have a party in the quad with music, beer, cheerleaders, grilled food, (not sure about the band), Otto, Bouncy House for kids. I'll admit, I don't go because I am tailgating.

 

[xc84]

That's more of a problem west of campus; bathrooms is one of the few things that's done right on the Quad - HBC, Bowne, the chapel are all open and offer a relatively clean and very convenient bathroom experience.

Yeah, I wasn't really referring to the Quad area regarding toilets. I agree, it's ok there. I park down in a permit lot off University. They definitely need more porta potties. Otherwise, I love the situation there. We have a great time and have our own pre-game traditions/rituals. I have said it before, the thing we need most is the University to step up and provide some game-day "traditions". How about a bus that travels around before the game with the cheerleaders. They can get out and visit with tailgaters. Who would not like that ?! How about the band has a march to the dome and gathers fans behind them on the way up? Then, we enter the dome and the doors are locked behind us (ok, the fire marshal may not approve that part)

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Maybe you have not been there in a while. They have a party in the quad with music, beer, cheerleaders, grilled food, (not sure about the band), Otto, Bouncy House for kids I'll admit, I don't go because I am tailgating.

The band plays on the steps of Hendricks before every home game.

 

[cuseguy]

The quad provides a centralized location for what you are describing...with the parking situation you can't do those things in however many individual lots - but you can have a serious pre-game party atmosphere on the quad. The last home game I attended I remember a bunch of old dudes standing around eating cold hot dogs outside the Physics building - not a dynamic pre-game environment. So maybe a serious pre-game party on the quad with stuff for kids, band, cheerleaders, lots of bathrooms, beer, and yes some heat lamps would work. maybe that's not traditional tailgating but it's something for people to get excited about. And cold windy weather is a deterrent even if it wasn't cold or windy last season - if people expect it to be nasty outside and are going to the game in a nice warm dome -they may be predisposed against tailgating - so even if it's warm it doesn't happen because it's just not something people consider. I mean at BC they have an ok tailgate - it's often cold but people are going to be watching the game in the cold so it's not a deterrent - they also have the one big grassy lot that is not exposed to the wind.

BC?

They have little to no tailgating. There's the one grassy field next to the stadium, which is reserved for high donors, and that's about it.

People are going to be surprised when we join the ACC. I've tailgated at Florida State and it's very good. A lot of open fields around the stadium and many take it seriously. I've also tailgated at North Carolina and it's probably a tad below Syracuse in terms of pre-game experience. There's some small lots, not many, and tailgating doesn't seem to a priority. Walked around the football stadium at Duke and there didn't seem to be many areas for tailgating. Maybe less than North Carolina. Enjoy our one trip to Maryland. The best tailgating of the three, but not superior or on par with Florida State.


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