The Downside

[SWC75]

- Well, tonight was the night. Predictably it came when we didn’t expect it. The challenge now is to prevent it from becoming a slump as it did last year when we opened 18-0 and then lost four in a row. Monday night’s game is the one many people thought would be the first lost, (I was one). It’s even more likely to be the second loss, even though the Cincinnati also lost.

- But the biggest loss will be Fab Melo if he doesn’t win his appeal on Tuesday. We saw what a void we had art center without him. Baye Keita just isn’t’ strong enough, at least against a 270 pounder like Jack Cooley. Rak Christmas just isn’t experienced enough. I’m amazed they played a total of 38 minutes and were called fore only five fouls between them. How much will that happen?

- Hubert Davis and the other talking heads keep sawing that “we don’t have a go-to-guy”. That’s wrong but tonight our Go-to-guys didn’t tell the ball to go to the basket. Kris Joseph was 1 for 6 in the first half and had two ugly turnovers where he basically dribbled the ball into the defender’s hands for a break-away. Dion Waiters hit two big threes at the end of the half to get us within sight of the Irish but was 2 for 12 otherwise and had a big turnover after we’d scored, gotten a steal, scored to pull within 8 and gotten another turnover. Scoop Jardine, who had been shooting well, was 0 for 5. Brandon Triche was 2 for 6. Those are our “go-to” guys and between them they were 10 for 37 from the field.

- It’s not that we don’t have a ‘go-to’ guy. The real problem is that we don’t have a power forward- a guy who can score inside and also has a mid-range jumper and who can rebound and block shots. Rak Christmas starts in that position but he isn‘t in there for long and he‘s having a typical freshman year for a big man. CJ Fair has a knack for being where the ball is but that doesn’t make him a power forward. Basically, we’ve gone all year with two small forwards. It’s worked as long as we use the additional quickness to create turnovers on the perimeter to make up for the lack of rebounds. But now we are facing the really physical teams of the Big east. Even with Fab getting a career high 10 rebounds vs. Pitt, we were out-rebounded 28-40. In this game, without Fab, it was 24-37. This is likely to be routine from here on in unless we get Fab back and, Christmas begins developing rapidly and the small forwards make a special effort to rebound. If only we had Kevin, not Mookie Jones! If only we had Anthony Davis! Well, we don’t.

- The referees? Outplay the other team and we’ll talk about them.

 

[mantonio]

You have a good knack for putting things into perspective, but I have to take you on about officiating.

The refs absolutely allowed & encouraged Cooley to cheat like a backroom gambler tonight. He was pushing & shoving with his hands & elbows, AND went over the back of Syracuse rebounders more times than I can count. The excuse that a stronger player only "appears" to be committing fouls is a bogus claim. You can't mask shoving with unauthorized appendages. Cooley should have fouled out by the beginning of the second half, but he was given too much grace, & therefore it made a huge difference.

I make the viable assertion that many bad things happened to create this loss, & if any ONE of them didn't exist, Syracuse wins this game with relative ease. Cooley not being held to a good standard by the refs IS one of those things...

 

[orangepassion]

You have a good knack for putting things into perspective, but I have to take you on about officiating.

The refs absolutely allowed & encouraged Cooley to cheat like a backroom gambler tonight. He was pushing & shoving with his hands & elbows, AND went over the back of Syracuse rebounders more times than I can count. The excuse that a stronger player only "appears" to be committing fouls is a bogus claim. You can't mask shoving with unauthorized appendages. Cooley should have fouled out by the beginning of the second half, but he was given too much grace, & therefore it made a huge difference.

I make the viable assertion that many bad things happened to create this loss, & if any ONE of them didn't exist, Syracuse wins this game with relative ease. Cooley not being held to a good standard by the refs IS one of those things...

We were thoroughly outplayed. That's the long and short of it. Their 3-balls went in. Ours didn't. They rebounded well. We didn't. They out-hustled us & out-tussled us. To them, this was the biggest game of the year. To us, this was just another game. It's nice being No. 1, but to keep that status you have to play like No. 1 and we didn't.

True, this woud have been a closer game if we had Melo. But I don't know if his presence alone would have resulted in a win. Today just wasn't SU's day. And if Melo doesn't return, we may very well have more games like today.

 

[mantonio]

We were thoroughly outplayed. That's the long and short of it. Their 3-balls went in. Ours didn't. They rebounded well. We didn't. They out-hustled us & out-tussled us. To them, this was the biggest game of the year. To us, this was just another game. It's nice being No. 1, but to keep that status you have to play like No. 1 and we didn't.

True, this woud have been a closer game if we had Melo. But I don't know if his presence alone would have resulted in a win. Today just wasn't SU's day. And if Melo doesn't return, we may very well have more games like today.

You are assuming we can't adjust in time to deal with a Melo loss by tourney time.

There is NO TEAM who dominates college basketball right now. You can't point to ONE program that is a shoo in for a Final Four appearance, let alone a National Championship. It's a serious stretch to say we have no chance of a championship. Last season, UCONN was in 9th place in the Big East going into MSG. They came out of the season with thee biggest trophy, simply because one good guard got hot... That's all it took.

This season, the field is even weaker than last year. If Any one or two of our guards get on a hot streak, we could run away with the whole thing easily...

Let's not throw the season away after one fluke loss...

 

[SoBeCuse]

You are assuming we can't adjust in time to deal with a Melo loss by tourney time.

There is NO TEAM who dominates college basketball right now. You can't point to ONE program that is a shoo in for a Final Four appearance, let alone a National Championship. It's a serious stretch to say we have no chance of a championship. Last season, UCONN was in 9th place in the Big East going into MSG. They came out of the season with thee biggest trophy, simply because one good guard got hot... That's all it took.

This season, the field is even weaker than last year. If Any one or two of our guards get on a hot streak, we could run away with the whole thing easily...

Let's not throw the season away after one fluke loss...

I like the optimism Mantonio for sure but this team dosn't have the ability to play like Missouri or like Villanova in the past. With zero post production if Melo is out we don't have the guard firepower to control a game from the perimeter. Not enough good consistent shooters and not enough who can consistently create their own shot.

 

[mantonio]

So you haven't been watching Dion Waiters? He has more than enough firepower to get the job done. I think you are vastly underrating our guard corps.

I wouldn't trade what we have at the top for any other group in America.

We might be able to dicker with our center/forward crew to get some better guys, maybe, but our guards are capable of beating ANY guard tandem in the country.

They had a bad game today, but that won't happen very often.

 

[SUSScuse]

The Guards are good and they can dominate games. What we need is balance.
We got out played on the boards, didn't make shots and weren't able to create turnovers and were missing our main force blocking shots.
Without a good big man in the middle this team will continue to struggle.
They have to figure out a way to play without Melo or we are in for a long ten games.

 

[OttoMets]

You have a good knack for putting things into perspective, but I have to take you on about officiating.

The refs absolutely allowed & encouraged Cooley to cheat like a backroom gambler tonight. He was pushing & shoving with his hands & elbows, AND went over the back of Syracuse rebounders more times than I can count.

There was one mind-boggling play late in the game where Notre Dame missed a free throw, Cooley went over Keita's back for the rebound, and Keita got called for a foul for undercutting Cooley as he put up a shot. Of course, the only reason Keita was under Cooley was because Cooley came over Keita's back.

I agree that the officiating (while a real problem in college basketball) isn't worth complaining about in the context of last night's game. When we cut it to 38-30 and then had two or three awful empty possessions, it was pretty much a ballgame. Notre Dame played well, and all of our flaws that allegedly no longer existed (out-of-control Dion and Kris, offensively limited C.J.) came back in full force.

 

[SoBeCuse]

The Guards are good and they can dominate games. What we need is balance.
We got out played on the boards, didn't make shots and weren't able to create turnovers and were missing our main force blocking shots.
Without a good big man in the middle this team will continue to struggle.
They have to figure out a way to play without Melo or we are in for a long ten games.

You make my point. The guards can't dominate right now, especially without Melo and balance. We need a LOT more from Joseph and Fair going forward.

 

[SoBeCuse]

So you haven't been watching Dion Waiters? He has more than enough firepower to get the job done. I think you are vastly underrating our guard corps.

I wouldn't trade what we have at the top for any other group in America.

We might be able to dicker with our center/forward crew to get some better guys, maybe, but our guards are capable of beating ANY guard tandem in the country.

They had a bad game today, but that won't happen very often.

You must think I am an idiot. Waiters is awesome but he needs more help out there.

 

[orangepassion]

You are assuming we can't adjust in time to deal with a Melo loss by tourney time.

There is NO TEAM who dominates college basketball right now. You can't point to ONE program that is a shoo in for a Final Four appearance, let alone a National Championship. It's a serious stretch to say we have no chance of a championship. Last season, UCONN was in 9th place in the Big East going into MSG. They came out of the season with thee biggest trophy, simply because one good guard got hot... That's all it took.

This season, the field is even weaker than last year. If Any one or two of our guards get on a hot streak, we could run away with the whole thing easily...

Let's not throw the season away after one fluke loss...

I'm not assuming that the Coach can't ultimately adjust to deal with a Melo loss. Hopefully, he can but it will depend if his 2 big men Rakeem & Keita can rise to the occcasion.
My post merely pointed out that we were deficient in so many ways in yesterday's game that there was no way we were going to win regardless of the reffing and/or the correction of a weakness in one area. In regard to the reffing, this is the Big East where the refs usually let the guys play .

Incidentally, I share your optimism and am disappointed by the frustration and irritation by posters on the Board when SU loses a road game after 20 straight wins and a No. 1 rating.

 

[Madbiker]

It was worse than just an off day shooting. What really bothers me was that the team was in total panic mode from the time we got behind 11-2. No offensive flow. Just everyone going 1-on-1 taking absurdly bad forced shots. JB's bench demeanor didn't help. Our guys needed to be calmed down to play under control. Instead it just snowballed. I can't believe how our poise just disappeared. I can live with a bad shooting game but not the total lack of poise.

 

[mantonio]

It was worse than just an off day shooting. What really bothers me was that the team was in total panic mode from the time we got behind 11-2. No offensive flow. Just everyone going 1-on-1 taking absurdly bad forced shots. JB's bench demeanor didn't help. Our guys needed to be calmed down to play under control. Instead it just snowballed. I can't believe how our poise just disappeared. I can live with a bad shooting game but not the total lack of poise.

I think I would be a bit rattled if I had 20 straight wins & the latest opponent started laying a smackdown on me. It's like you are getting really lucky, but you are always waiting for the hammer to come down, listening for the footsteps...

The paranoia of impending doom was too much for these kids.

However, the GOOD NEWS: They don't have to worry about that now. They faced their demons & got a good azz whoopin', now they can get down to the business of winning a National Championship...

 

[All4SU]

Last season, UCONN was in 9th place in the Big East going into MSG. They came out of the season with thee biggest trophy, simply because one good guard got hot... That's all it took.

I agree with this part of your post. This year, maybe it's Waiters. We just don't know.

 

[All4SU]

IJB's bench demeanor didn't help. Our guys needed to be calmed down to play under control.

JB didn't just fall off of the turnip truck. I have a lot more confidence in him knowing how the players will react to him than what we as fans might think watching on TV.

 

[BuffOrange]

Joseph's ballhandling was abysmal in the Pitt game too. Why can't he dribble the ball anymore?

 

[Rossco123]

Never could!