The issue with Frank is simple. He plays short!

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Gabjon

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#1
Then you are a taller guard you have to use your length to get around people unless you are a rare athlete, which Frank is not. So when shorter guards press up on him he tries to beat them off the dribble, but low man usually wins that battle. That his why short guards are normally are very good at getting to the hole. Think Jonny Flynn, Isaiah Thomas (either one). But if you're tall you have to use your length to get around a shorter opponent. This is done by turning your back to your defender and backing him down until he has to body you up and then you drive with a long first step the shorter defender will have to slide his feet twice to equal that first long stride. Think Lazarus Sim or Steve Smith "the Smitty" for those NBA fans.
 

newmexicuse

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#4
I won't disagree with what you are saying, but I will disagree with what Frank's biggest issues are.

I see four major problems:

1. He is slow for a PG.

2. He has a mediocre handle for a PG.

3. He has a slow release on his shot.

4. I think he has reasonably good court vision, but he doesn't have the skillset to execute that vision consistently enough.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot you can do to increase the number of fast twitch muscles.
 
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#5
I think hes playing with an injury and his confidence might not be the best right now.

Hes also getting an insane amount of for not even playing that bad on here but its to be expected on this board shtting on a team that is 8-3 in the ACC is to be expected. Wish some of these posters just did what was in their heart and rooted for Duke. Its ridiculous. Carey can't be on the court 60 seconds without making a boneheaded play and turning it over and people want him to play over a season vet who has been part of what 6 or 7 NCAA tournament wins?

I'm not seeing the sky is falling re Frank. Im seeing a PG who isn't 'on' or even fully healthy allowing his teammates to take larger roles in the offense. Its also not a huge issue to me if hes on the bench and Buddy is draining threes. But I like the Frank Buddy combo and would love to see Tyus moved to the three on nights where Eli or Oshae are cold.
 

Townie72

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#6
Turning your back to an opponent—- and away from the from the rim —- and backing the defender down.

What could possibly go wrong?
 

jgeorge322

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#7
frank's main weakness is his ball handling, which is marginal at best. watch him dribble. he palms the ball every play. it just doesnt get called. when you are scared you will get pocket picked every second, it is difficult to play point guard. frank has been able to overcome this in the past by using his body to shield the ball. it does not work well against elite defenders however. it also kills our pace of play because it prohibits him from moving toward the rim. If frank's handle was more solid, he could use his size more to his advantage. he is simply going to need to be confident and aggressive to reduce the impact of this weakness.
 
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kuethstheman

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#8
frank's main weakness is his ball handling, which is marginal at best. watch him dribble. he palms the ball every play. it just doesnt get called.
If that's how you tell if someone has a weak handle, then I guess every point guard in America at all levels is a weak ball handler!
 

kuethstheman

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#11
I never said it was the only reason I feel the way I do. Do you agree or disagree that he has a weak handle?
Oh, I agree. Just pointing out that they stopped calling palming a long time ago so even though it bugs the hell out of me, I don't think Frank does it any more than anyone else. It doesn't indicate anything about his/their skill level.
 

orangecuse

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#12
frank's main weakness is his ball handling, which is marginal at best. watch him dribble. he palms the ball every play. it just doesnt get called. when you are scared you will get picked every second, it is difficult to play point guard. frank has been able to overcome this in the past by basically using his body to shield the ball. it does not work well against elite defenders however. it also kills our pace of play because it prohibits him from moving toward the rim. overall, though, if frank's handle was more solid, he could use his size more to his advantage. he is simply going to need to be confident and aggressive to reduce the impact of his weakness.
This is a very sensitive topic here...I share similar sentiments as you. I don't know if Frank's ankle is still an issue or not, but based upon what JB stated in his presser after the FSU game and that Frank's problem can't getting by people isn't related to his physical well being, along with Frank himself saying his ankle was 100% after a game in late December, I believe them both.

I think Frank struggles and has struggled his entire career here at SU when facing teams that place a lot of pressure on the ball, hounding type D. SU brought in Gillon during Frank's soph year because, let's just say, the staff had some serious concerns at point in that regard. Last year, we experienced similar results and play at the point, when facing these types of hounding D teams. However, unlike last year, JB had no legit/good options to substitute that position, and why Frank never came out when struggling, but just having to bite the bullet so to speak and live with it. People should go back and revisit some of those games, his struggles were not due to any injury, etc., but due to the same issues that face him today, skill set related matters, it really isn't anything new.

I have watched that FSU presser a few times. When JB says that Frank can't get by people, to me, it was as if it pained himself/cringing (by his facial expression) in saying that openly/publicly, it was the first time he ever said this outloud for the world to hear, even though he had known. At least that was my interpretation, of course, I may be incorrect.

I think the Frank injury preseason has been beneficial to Tyus, in that it gave him time to work at it/get more comfortable, etc. out there at that position. It truly does appear that he runs the point much better, getting our guys in places on the floor, etc. where they can make plays...just better overall offensive flow.

As mentioned last week by another poster, possibly Jake, Battle at the PG position may be his best avenue into the NBA. He doesn't have the consistently good outside shot for an ideal 2G, but if he can keep improving on his handle, assists, getting teammates involved, etc. I think he has a shot there, especially with good size and decent athleticism. Maybe he can follow the mode of a Rondo type, who has had a successful career with longevity? Of course, without the PUNK mantra though. :)
 
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jgeorge322

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#13
Oh, I agree. Just pointing out that they stopped calling palming a long time ago so even though it bugs the hell out of me, I don't think Frank does it any more than anyone else. It doesn't indicate anything about his/their skill level.
I think he does it more than others and its indicia that his handle is weak. Interesting to nit pick on that small point though
 

jgeorge322

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#14
This is a very sensitive topic here...I share similar sentiments as you. I don't know if Frank's ankle is still an issue or not, but based upon what JB stated in his presser after the FSU game and that Frank's problem can't getting by people isn't related to his physical well being, along with Frank himself saying his ankle was 100% after a game in late December, I believe them both.

I think Frank struggles and has struggled his entire career here at SU when facing teams that place a lot of pressure on the ball, hounding type D. SU brought in Gillon during Frank's soph year because, let's just say, the staff had some serious concerns at point in that regard. Last year, we experienced similar results and play at the point, when facing these types of hounding D teams. However, unlike last year, JB had no legit/good options to substitute that position, and why Frank never came out when struggling, but just having to bite the bullet so to speak and live with it. People should go back and revisit some of those games, his struggles were not due to any injury, etc., but due to the same issues that face him today, skill set related matters, it really isn't anything new.

I have watched that FSU presser a few times. When JB says that Frank can't get by people, to me, it was as if it pained himself/cringing (by his facial expression) in saying that openly/publicly, it was the first time he ever said this outloud for the world to hear. At least that was my interpretation, of course, I may be incorrect.

I think the Frank injury preseason has been beneficial to Tyus, in that it gave him time to work at it/get more comfortable, etc. out there at that position. It truly does appear that he runs the point much better, getting our guys in places on the floor, etc. where they can make plays...just better overall offensive flow.

As mentioned last week by another poster, possibly Jake, Battle at the PG position may be his best avenue into the NBA. He doesn't have the consistently good outside shot for an ideal 2G, but if he can keep improving on his handle, assists, getting teammates involved, etc. I think he has a shot there, especially with good size and decent athleticism. Maybe he can follow the mode of a Rondo type, who has had a successful career with longevity? Of course, without the PUNK mantra though. :)
I think you hit the nail on the head although tyus has always been capable at point imho. I know jb may say otherwise but to me the difference is buddy creates more room as does elijah. If we have a game where elijah and buddy go off at same time, expect battle will get to the rim at will. Part of why battle had such a great game at duke was because elijah was hitting shots.
 

kuethstheman

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#16
I think he does it more than others and its indicia that his handle is weak. Interesting to nit pick on that small point though
Not nitpicking. I think it's an interesting topic, separate from your original point that I agree with. Based on your comments, I'm going to watch his (and others') palming more closely.
 

bpo57

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#17
I think hes playing with an injury and his confidence might not be the best right now.

Hes also getting an insane amount of for not even playing that bad on here but its to be expected on this board shtting on a team that is 8-3 in the ACC is to be expected. Wish some of these posters just did what was in their heart and rooted for Duke. Its ridiculous. Carey can't be on the court 60 seconds without making a boneheaded play and turning it over and people want him to play over a season vet who has been part of what 6 or 7 NCAA tournament wins?

I'm not seeing the sky is falling re Frank. Im seeing a PG who isn't 'on' or even fully healthy allowing his teammates to take larger roles in the offense. Its also not a huge issue to me if hes on the bench and Buddy is draining threes. But I like the Frank Buddy combo and would love to see Tyus moved to the three on nights where Eli or Oshae are cold.
If Frank is injured and unable to perform then he should have been shelved until he's closer to 100%. JB insists that he's not injured tho.
 
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#18
I think you hit the nail on the head although tyus has always been capable at point imho. I know jb may say otherwise but to me the difference is buddy creates more room as does elijah. If we have a game where elijah and buddy go off at same time, expect battle will get to the rim at will. Part of why battle had such a great game at duke was because elijah was hitting shots.
Battle being capable at point is a bit of a stretch. The team got humiliated by Uconn and Oregon when they tried that. Hes a better distributor when playing the 2. A red hot Buddy and Battle being 'on' as a scorer is going to cover up some warts but he hasn't played well in that spot.

I think the key should be keeping the best guys that given night on the court no matter what. Apart from Battle everyone else should sit if they aren't shooting well. To me that means its OK if Eli sits and Battle plays the 3 or Frank sits and Tyus plays the 1.

Its not really a 'problem' either if BB is red hot and Frankie ends the game on the pine even though posters on here will use it against him and chalk that up to Frankie sucking and having a bad game.
 

GooseMutt

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#20
Frank does play small and the only player we have that plays big Is Battle. Most disappointing is we have no one that plays above the rim. No one.
 

jgeorge322

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#21
Battle being capable at point is a bit of a stretch. The team got humiliated by Uconn and Oregon when they tried that. Hes a better distributor when playing the 2. A red hot Buddy and Battle being 'on' as a scorer is going to cover up some warts but he hasn't played well in that spot.

I think the key should be keeping the best guys that given night on the court no matter what. Apart from Battle everyone else should sit if they aren't shooting well. To me that means its OK if Eli sits and Battle plays the 3 or Frank sits and Tyus plays the 1.

Its not really a 'problem' either if BB is red hot and Frankie ends the game on the pine even though posters on here will use it against him and chalk that up to Frankie sucking and having a bad game.
The problem w the uconn and oregon games is everyone played poorly though, maybe besides jalen. It might be a chicken or the egg argument but difficult to judge tyus at point in those games.

Tyus has far the best handle on the team
He is the best driver, which means he's best at getting ball past half court
Doesnt turn the ball over
Not sure what his weaknesses would be at pg
 
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jgeorge322

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#22
Not nitpicking. I think it's an interesting topic, separate from your original point that I agree with. Based on your comments, I'm going to watch his (and others') palming more closely.
Let me know what you think. If you go back and watch the duke game, coach k was asking the refs to call frank on it. Not that that is dispositive but it means an opposing teams coach has noticed it as well.
 

bpo57

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#23
Battle being capable at point is a bit of a stretch. The team got humiliated by Uconn and Oregon when they tried that. Hes a better distributor when playing the 2. A red hot Buddy and Battle being 'on' as a scorer is going to cover up some warts but he hasn't played well in that spot.

I think the key should be keeping the best guys that given night on the court no matter what. Apart from Battle everyone else should sit if they aren't shooting well. To me that means its OK if Eli sits and Battle plays the 3 or Frank sits and Tyus plays the 1.

Its not really a 'problem' either if BB is red hot and Frankie ends the game on the pine even though posters on here will use it against him and chalk that up to Frankie sucking and having a bad game.
Those two games you referenced took place 3-4 months ago. A lot has transpired since then.
 

JoeSU

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#24
I think hes playing with an injury and his confidence might not be the best right now.

Hes also getting an insane amount of for not even playing that bad on here but its to be expected on this board shtting on a team that is 8-3 in the ACC is to be expected. Wish some of these posters just did what was in their heart and rooted for Duke. Its ridiculous. Carey can't be on the court 60 seconds without making a boneheaded play and turning it over and people want him to play over a season vet who has been part of what 6 or 7 NCAA tournament wins?.
This is the only reasonable explanation for why his performance (which had statistically improved over his first 3 years), has suddenly regressed this year.
 

manleyzoo

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#25
GMAC on Frank: “Frank needs to play at a better pace. He needs to be the aggressor instead of trying to pick apart the defense. He needs to get into the paint. He needs to play lower and drive with his shoulder down. it’s not like he’s an unproven guy being asked to do things he’s never done before….When we do scouting we often make sure to put in clips from our last game against that team where a player did well to give him some confidence going into the current game….Frank was all ready for the season and then hurt his ankle and was out for 9 weeks. He watched more film than anybody during that time.” Matt noted that Frank had been to the line only 28 times this year and in only 7 of the 20 games he’s played in. Last year he got to the line 128 times and in 33 of 37 games.

So much for the short people theory.
 
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