The ragging on Girard is a bit creepy

[Cusefan0307]

Both on here and twitter and I myself have been on him for not hustling in the past, but it really doesn't seem to be a big problem lately. It's a bit creepy some of the hate people have for him. He's not a perfect player by any means, but outside of that stretch earlier in the year he's been pretty good and the fact of the matter is he saved us last night down the stretch.

Maybe he can teach the forwards how to rebound.

Some popular twitter handles really need to learn they don't speak for everyone.

 

[shandeezy7]

Over the years, Girard has deserved some of the criticisms that he has received, but a lot of it has also been overblown. Without him last night though? We would have gotten our doors blown off. By a two win team. He carried us.

 

[CuseTG2003]

Joe had a really bad two-game stretch early in the season, but besides that, he's been really good. Not perfect, but really good. He's the least of our problems.

 

[690West]

When Girard scores 15+ we are 10-1. When he has less than 15 we are 0-4. He has his flaws, but he's probably as valuable as anyone on the team.

 

[AlaskaSU]

We will be hurting without him next year.

 

[Consigliere]

Ragging from many of the same people who were all over JB for being so late to offer an Upstate New York kid that already had offers from Michigan and Duke. Kid has played his heart out for the Orange for four years. I guess it’s true. Haters gotta hate.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Certain people have always piled on Joe. He’s been a bit of a scapegoat for other issues that plagued the program during his tenure here. He’s a good player and I hope he continues to have a great senior year. Our record this year is a lot worse without him.

 

[Brooky03]

Both on here and twitter and I myself have been on him for not hustling in the past, but it really doesn't seem to be a big problem lately. It's a bit creepy some of the hate people have for him. He's not a perfect player by any means, but outside of that stretch earlier in the year he's been pretty good and the fact of the matter is he saved us last night down the stretch.

Maybe he can teach the forwards how to rebound.

Some popular twitter handles really need to learn they don't speak for everyone.

“Getting?”

He’s the most hated starter I’ve witnessed since I joined this forum a decade ago or whenever that was.

 

[Cusefan0307]

“Getting?”

He’s the most hated starter I’ve witnessed since I joined this forum a decade ago or whenever that was.

semantics. It is creepy. That said I thought there was some criticism in the past, but this year for whatever reason it is really weird.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

It's fine to acknowledge that even though he saved our bacon he still has some of the same problem areas he had when he came in. I promise. From there it's a matter of how much of that you want to put on him vs. the staff for not getting more out of an admittedly limited player or recruiting and developing players to better hide those flaws.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Joe Girard is a true Orange. Glad to have him. Only thing I would want is for him to get rid of his " HEAT CHECK MOMENTUM KILLER 30 FOOT SHOTS" Those two in the 2nd half cost me the 2nd half spread and the SU over 73.5. LOL.

His Junior season he had better stats and Cooney as a Senior. This year he is even better.

GO CUSE.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Ragging from many of the same people who were all over JB for being so late to offer an Upstate New York kid that already had offers from Michigan and Duke. Kid has played his heart out for the Orange for four years. I guess it’s true. Haters gotta hate.

And the same people who call him "the 3rd Boeheim brother". I never understood why people can be so critical.

 

[Newhouser]

He has been good every year here. His Frosh year he bailed us out and he has bailed us out a ton this year. Is he great on D? NO. Is he the only reason we stink on D? NO. Does he exert maximum energy all the time? Certainly not.
What he does do is not shy away from the moment. Takes big shots. Hits FT's and shows some fire and competitiveness that I attribute to playing high school football.

IF he would ditch the premature heat check, forced 3 after someone else makes 2 baskets in a row, lose the 2 to 3 head scratching decisions he still makes every game, and realize his break away lay ups should be pulled back and never taken to the rim - we all would sleep much better.

The hatred stems from a love affair over a player who didn't want to be here, and filled gaps the team needed that were not in Joe's skill set. In leaving, that player has not panned out to the expectation that those committed to the affair believed he would.

 

[Killdozer]

It's not his offense, he is the worst defensive player I have ever watched in an SU jersey. Buddy was/is right behind him with non-existence defensive desire.

 

[Eric15]

Joe and GMac are fairly comparable players as seniors. Gerry was a much better distributor and was a better defender in the zone, but Joe is a more accurate shooter.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's not his offense, he is the worst defensive player I have ever watched in an SU jersey. Buddy was/is right behind him with non-existence defensive desire.

This is where fans lose me. He’s not great on defense, but he’s not even the worst defensive player in the starting lineup. Objectivity has gone out the window for some of you.

He’s 5’10” and was our 2nd leading rebounder so hustling shouldn’t be a problem.

Why?

Mike Waters triggered a bunch of you last night.

 

[Brooky03]

This is where fans lose me. He’s not great on defense, but he’s not even the worst defensive player in the starting lineup. Objectivity has gone out the window for some of you.

He’s 5’10” and was our 2nd leading rebounder so hustling shouldn’t be a problem.

Why?

Mike Waters triggered a bunch of you last night.

I think it's because Joe is an even-keeled guy on the court and some take that as a lack of effort. If he knows he can't get somewhere quick enough, he doesn't make a big show of pretending like he could. He's certainly not infallible; he's not a good defender, but that has always been primarily a product of size/athleticism more so than effort, imo. Jim Boeheim doesn't really stand for low effort on the defensive end.

Also, Joe can't really do anything against NBA range 3's, which he seems to get dinged for. He usually puts his hand up and gets as close as he can, doing a good job of avoiding fouling. I've watched games with guys who bemoan his 3pt defense because they don't think he's aggressive enough in closing out on shooters. There could be some truth to that but, the vast majority of the time, him sprinting out there and - god forbid - jumping would lead to disaster much more often than it would do any good.

Other notables: He runs around a lot. He gets tired. Going balls to the wall on defense when you're the only guy on the team who can make 2 3's in a row might not be the path to success. Gotta save some juice for scoring points. That's basketball. And he doesn't bounce around a bunch with his arms flailing around over his head. I think that bothers some fans.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Joe and GMac are fairly comparable players as seniors. Gerry was a much better distributor and was a better defender in the zone, but Joe is a more accurate shooter.

View attachment 223916
View attachment 223917

Loved Gerry, but I think he would be a bigger liability in this era. He didn’t have to extend as far out as players do today in the zone.

 

[Brooky03]

Loved Gerry, but I think he would be a bigger liability in this era. He didn’t have to extend as far out as players do today in the zone.

Agreed. Gerry got to play with some much better talent, too (obviously). He could give up drives in the paint when we had dudes back there who'd send the shot 4 rows deep.

 

[MSOrange]

Without Joe Girard, we wouldn't have scored10 bleeping points last night! OK? Not 10. The other guys just aren't ready. They needed him. Without him there, not 10!

 

[M2MPrinciples]

And he doesn't bounce around a bunch with his arms flailing around over his head. I think that bothers some fans.

He falls down quite a lot for someone as stocky as he is. I'm surprised he hasn't been whistled for flopping more often.

 

[Orangezoo]

Both on here and twitter and I myself have been on him for not hustling in the past, but it really doesn't seem to be a big problem lately. It's a bit creepy some of the hate people have for him. He's not a perfect player by any means, but outside of that stretch earlier in the year he's been pretty good and the fact of the matter is he saved us last night down the stretch.

Maybe he can teach the forwards how to rebound.

Some popular twitter handles really need to learn they don't speak for everyone.

For stretches last night he looked like the only guy on the court who wanted to play hard and win.

I've had my concerns with him and he did have a bad stretch of play earlier this year but he has given all he has since. I hate to think how bad Ville embarrasses us without him last night.

 

[djcon57]

Joe and GMac are fairly comparable players as seniors. Gerry was a much better distributor and was a better defender in the zone, but Joe is a more accurate shooter.

View attachment 223916
View attachment 223917

I get the compare but it's not really fair to GMac for the overall compare. He was forced to play point AND score thanks to Josh Wright being...um.. less than ideal.

Joe is basically focusing on scoring.

Ast % 33.3 for Gmac to 16.7 for Joe.

As far as the thread, Joe has been pretty good this year. I thought he was getting way too much crap in the BC game and said so. He has his awesome games, his average games, and then the games he should be pulled immediately. He's basically the same as he's been without having to be stuck with the turnovers he got forcing him to be a PG. I think outside of the St Johns game, JBs had a pretty good handle on when you use him this year.

For his career here, he's been starting for 4 years and been in 1 tourney (hopefully this year makes 2) and ultimately I really don't see much improvement in his game over the years. He's just not up to our usual caliber of 4 year starter, but it's NOT HIS FAULT...as has been explained ad nauseum...unfortunately to some pointing this out suggests you hate him.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

While I'd still like to see him exert more consistent effort on defense and limit his heat checks, overall Joe's been a lot more balanced this season than I expected and I think that's been a really good development. Coming into the year I was mentally prepared for him to chuck up 20 shots a game, and he would have had high volume scoring but it wouldn't have translated to winning basketball.

He's been a bit more selective on offense, has been willing to feed Jesse (to his credit, I think over his entire career he's been very good at involving the bigs in getting buckets), and has been agreeable to Judah's driving game. That kind of balanced offense is much better than a Joe-centric one, but it's nice to know sometimes when we need scoring like last night that he can deliver.

I'm still pissed that injured Cole Anthony on a crap UNC team edged him out for All-ACC freshman honors. I do think there's a hard reality fans try to negotiate where Joe is mismatched to the broader zone philosophy from a size and skill perspective.

 

[721Comstock]

I get the compare but it's not really fair to GMac for the overall compare. He was forced to play point AND score thanks to Josh Wright being...um.. less than ideal.

Joe is basically focusing on scoring.

Ast % 33.3 for Gmac to 16.7 for Joe.

As far as the thread, Joe has been pretty good this year. I thought he was getting way too much crap in the BC game and said so. He has his awesome games, his average games, and then the games he should be pulled immediately. He's basically the same as he's been without having to be stuck with the turnovers he got forcing him to be a PG. I think outside of the St Johns game, JBs had a pretty good handle on when you use him this year.

For his career here, he's been starting for 4 years and been in 1 tourney (hopefully this year make 2) and ultimately I really don't see much improvement in his game over the years. He's just not up to our usual caliber of 4 year starter, but it's NOT HIS FAULT...as has been explained ad nauseum...unfortunately to some pointing this out suggests you hate him.

144% THIS.

It's not Joe's fault he is what he is.

And what he is - woulda been a fantastic 6th/7th man on a more talented, traditional Cuse team.

So, it's 99.9% on JAB and staff that Joe's in this position, since they never were able to get better talent to push him to the bench.
And even now, still just run him out there for All The Minutes, even in those games when he can't hit water from a boat.