Thoughts on the Army Game

[JeremyCuse]

Before getting into the Army game just wanted to acknowledge the great performance against Albany. I was going to do a recap but I think it's been covered pretty well in other threads so no need to re-hash everything. I will touch on some of things from the Albany game in previewing the Army game.

Much like last game this feels like another very important game for SU if not the classic "Must win" when you look at the daunting road ahead. Going into this year I knew Army would again have a potent defense but I thought they would again struggle on offense. They have gotten some excellent production from Frosh attackmen Brendan Nichtern who leads the team with 13 pts and Jr attackmen Miles Silva who is tied with middie Matt Manown in second with 8 pts. Does that mean Army's offense is a lot better then I thought, not necessarily which I will get into later. Uncharacteristically Army is struggling mightily at the X, their man FOGO Evan Condon is only 16 for 51 on the year (31%) and the #2 guy is 1-10. Army has managed to work around this thanks to a great defense led by a trio of seniors all of whom should be very familiar for SU lax fans. Goalie AJ Barretto has been at Army for what feels like a decade along with defenders Griffin Schultz and AA Johnny Surdick. The good news for SU is that trio is all graduating at the end of this season but that won't help us much on Sunday.

So what's the biggest concern for SU? - To me its clearly our offense against that Defense. Army has done an unbelievable job in forcing turnovers this year. Umass had 16, Rutgers 20, and Marist had 25 turnovers in Army's first three games. A Rutgers fan noted on their board that it felt like Army had 3 extra defenders on the field at times as they would swarm the ball carrier and play aggressive D leading to a host of turnovers. Surdick alone had 9 CTO. Syracuse is going to have to a much better job then they did in the Colgate game in turning the ball over or its going to be a very long afternoon. Apparently Rutgers had numerous unforced TO's and their offense is fairly good.

Assuming SU is decent with turnovers the second issue becomes scoring itself. Baretto has had a bit of an up an down career at Army but when he is locked in he is one of the best in the country and Surdick is probably in the top 3 of close defenders in D1. SU is going to need to showcase its depth here as whoever Surdick is covering (I assume Rehfuss or Solomon) is going to struggle to get much of anything going. I worry that the offense overall may struggle to generate points as its been shaky at best through two games and still looks like the players are trying to work things out. I think SU would be wise to push transition and any fast break opportunities that may arise to get a look before Army can get itself set up defensively. SU struggled big time offensively in the 1st half of last years game before exploding in the second half to propel the comeback win in OT. Changing angles I think will be key as Baretto owned Trimboli on that high to high shot last year and as we have seen hes struggled this year with the same issue. SU is really going to need the midfield to step up this game as the attack unit is already struggling (Voigts 6 goals not withstanding) and this is a bad matchup with Surdick and Schultz at close. Army could double pole the midfield but I don't know if they have the personnel to pull that off. Should they attempt that I assume we will see a lot of Cook at attack.

Defensively I think SU matches up fairly well. While Nichtern has been great for Army he hasn't seen any defender close to Mellen's level yet. Mellen has locked down both of his assignments to date so I have to give him the edge against Nichtern here. Bomberry should be marking their big attackmen #44. Tyson was great against Nanticoke last week, hopefully that carries over to this game. Nate Jones the main attackmen from last year has been relatively quiet this year with only 3pts on 4 shots. I don't know if he is dealing with an injury or what's going on there. Cunningham will draw him assuming they put Mellen on Nichtern which I think they almost certainly will. SU needs to be careful not to pay to much attention to the other two attackmen as Jones has had success against SU in the past and may end up being the main guy if Mellen locks down Nichtern. Sean O'Brien is the other attackmen who plays and he has actaully started all three games while Nichtern and Silva the big attackmen have been rotating starts. I suspect he will play but I expect most of the minutes to go to Jones, Nichtern and Silva. Army lost just about every starter at midfield from last years squad so its a different looking unit this year. Matt Manown is the main guy with 8pts on the year (4 and 4) and is second on the team in assists. Clearly this is Fusco/Kennedy territory as I can't imagine SU won't poll him. Unlike the last few years Army's offense is running through the attack so the midfield isn't nearly as strong as it usually is. The next guy is probably Connor DeWitt who has 3 pts on the year. SU's SSDM have been a pleasant surprise this year and I think this is a matchup they should have the advantage (at least on paper). Like Albany's middies, Army's midfieldsers aren't great dodgers outside of Manown. We need to really keep these guys locked down.

Intangibles - Give credit to Army who is 3-0 with a couple of impressive wins, winning at Rutty is not easy. Also that Defense led by the three seniors is excellent top 5 or at worst top 10 in the country. That said I am not how good the team as a whole is. Army's D has caused an absolutely ridiculous 61 turnovers this year including 25 against Marist. Yet they are only averaging 10.6 goals a game. With a D causing that many turnovers you would think their offense would be scoring 14-15 goals a game. On offense Army is turning the ball over at a pretty high clip themselves as Nichtern alone has turned it over 11 times already this year. If your struggling to score double digits when your D is generating that many more possessions for your offense I think thats definitely cause for a concern. 10 goals against Marist despite them turning it over 25 times is an enormous red flag. Faceoff play looms large as well, outside of the Rutgers game when RU was using its backup due to injury Army has been abysmal at the X. SU really should have an advantage here with the 1-2 punch of Varello and Phaup despite SU going 1-7 in the 2nd half of the Albany game. Army is a GB machine and SU after a disastrous performance against Colgate looked elite in that dept against Albany. We need another strong performance here.

As for the game itself its a tough call. Army has the better overall D in my opinion but not by a huge margin. SU is better at the X and has better depth. Offense on our end is a major concern. Team has had long scoring droughts in both games so far this year and Rehfuss has been a total non factor. Who can beat their man to cause Army to slide? Will we change angles? Will the frosh and younger guys who aren't used to playing Army get overwhelmed by their defense. Guys like Quinn and Cook and Seebold if he plays are going to have to adjust to the pressure D quickly as Army's D is the exact opposite of Albany's as Powellfan and someone else pointed out. If SU plays like it did last week I think they can and should win but I worry about turnovers and Baretto standing on his head. The knowns for SU need to match Baretto and Surdick so Mellen and Porter are going to have to play very well. I would like to see Desko use our depth a little better this game. Thought he stuck with the 1st line to long in the third quarter against Albany last week despite the struggles of Trimbo and Lipka. Speaking of Lipka this would be a great time for him to breakout.

This feels like it has the potential for a classic SU/Army score ie 9-8, 8-7, 10-9 etc. Its a game I think we really need to win when you look at whats ahead and the slip up to Colgate. I hope the team comes out and grabs it.

 

[Orangello]

I remain concerned about our clearing ability and passing on the offensive end. Get the ball out on the clear and move it. Army is going to ride like crazy and help is going to be important. Watch out for traps. Passing needs to be crisp and efficient. Too many dropped passes so far this year. Really need to see something from Rehfuss this week or I'd be looking at my options.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I remain concerned about our clearing ability and passing on the offensive end. Get the ball out on the clear and move it. Army is going to ride like crazy and help is going to be important. Watch out for traps. Passing needs to be crisp and efficient. Too many dropped passes so far this year. Really need to see something from Rehfuss this week or I'd be looking at my options.

Excellent point about clearing. We will need to "pass" to clear versus trying to have 1 guy clear on his own. Army against Marist jumped the ball carrier trying to clear multiple times and ended up with a double or triple team that of course resulted in a turnover. This area is of critical importance on Sunday. Passing and catching was better against Albany but we need to make smarter decisions. Kennedy was great defensively but had 3-4 horrific passes clearing or trying to push transition, simply can't have that in this type of game.

 

[CuseAlum87]

I watched the Marist game and parts of the Umass game, Army is good but not as good as the team was last year. Marist is woeful this year with the exception of their goalie. Not all of the 25 turnovers were caused and they couldn't win any 1 on 1 match ups. Umass is 0-2 as well but not as weak as Marist. The Orange should dominate the face-off X and win mid-field match ups. Should be a close game, I like this years match up better than last years.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Baretto is good but tiny. For Trimboli and Lipka stick side high shots are back on the menu!

 

[JeremyCuse]

I watched the Marist game and parts of the Umass game, Army is good but not as good as the team was last year. Marist is woeful this year with the exception of their goalie. Not all of the 25 turnovers were caused and they couldn't win any 1 on 1 match ups. Umass is 0-2 as well but not as weak as Marist. The Orange should dominate the face-off X and win mid-field match ups. Should be a close game, I like this years match up better than last years.

I tend to agree with you that while this Army team is good I dont know if its better then there team from a few years ago that beat both SU and ND. I think they are better then last years squad but not at the X and potentially not at the midfield. If this current SU team had an upper level attack unit (like SU historically has had) and or a healthy Dordevic I would like SU to win. The current offense while much better against Albany still seems like a work in progress. Were not getting anything out of the attack unit in 6 on 6 outside of Voigt against Albany and 2/3rds of the starting midfiield has struggled to start the year. I think this offense will get better potentially a lot better as the season goes on and guys like Cook and the young guys like Magnan, Quinn, Buttermore et c have a chance to gel but Army is probably one of a handful teams you really don't want to see this offense up against right now. SU needs to dominate at the X and really wear down Army and shot placement has to be light years better.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Baretto is good but tiny. For Trimboli and Lipka stick side high shots are back on the menu!

Agree on Baretto's height but I have to disagree about stick side high shots. Baretto had no joke probably a half dozen saves against Trimbo last year that nearly all were high to high. I remember at least 2 or 3 were in the OT's, it was maddening.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Agree on Baretto's height but I have to disagree about stick side high shots. Baretto had no joke probably a half dozen saves against Trimbo last year that nearly all were high to high. I remember at least 2 or 3 were in the OT's, it was maddening.

Good point. Let's change that to "high shots" which was not going well against that giant in goal for albany. In general I think the stick side high shot is a good move in todays game and not just players going for the highlight film. Every shot in D1 is so fast that goalies are anticipating the direction of the ball which usually involves moving their stick away from its starting position. If a goalie moves his stick away in anticipation he is a motion too late to go back and stop a stick side high shot and its coming so fast he doesnt stand a chance. Voigt actually had a few nice ones like that last year but he smartly didnt bust it out too much against Albany. Also shots above the goalies stick side shoulder can be effective since the goalie sees it coming in the general direciton of his stick head and he freezes up a little. But they have to be super accurate. Buttermore had a sick goal against albany last week with one of those shots. But yeah I was screaming at Trimboli in last years game for that. If the goalie anticipates stick side high then it really is just playing catch.

 

[Orangello]

Excellent point about clearing. We will need to "pass" to clear versus trying to have 1 guy clear on his own. Army against Marist jumped the ball carrier trying to clear multiple times and ended up with a double or triple team that of course resulted in a turnover. This area is of critical importance on Sunday. Passing and catching was better against Albany but we need to make smarter decisions. Kennedy was great defensively but had 3-4 horrific passes clearing or trying to push transition, simply can't have that in this type of game.

Exactly. Our guys have a bad habit of trying to run the ball out themselves on the clear instead of passing it up and then find themselves trapped. Pass, pass, pass.

 

[ivorytower]

Ryan Powell said shooting to side of goalies hip was the hardest stop for them to make. Forget which side he cited but I assume it was opposite stick side . If so, Trimboli just needs to lower his shot a foot or so. Not much wrong with rest of game, left hand alley dodge is beauty

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Off-stick hip is generally the most difficult save to make

 

[ivorytower]

Exactly. Our guys have a bad habit of trying to run the ball out themselves on the clear instead of passing it up and then find themselves trapped. Pass, pass, pass.

Lax n hoops are similar in many ways. Always prepared for pressing teams by practicing several press breakers. Sure Cuse is doing same . Not just about advancing ball but making them pay if overly aggressiveness on rides. Spread em out , know where to cut , stay out of corners Alberici noted Kennedy in IL podcast, teams will account for him and that should open field for some others.

 

[CuseAlum87]

Ryan Powell said shooting to side of goalies hip was the hardest stop for them to make. Forget which side he cited but I assume it was opposite stick side . If so, Trimboli just needs to lower his shot a foot or so. Not much wrong with rest of game, left hand alley dodge is beauty

Off-stick side hip is technically the toughest location for a lacrosse goalie to make a save. Head of the stick is far away and he can't make the save by sticking his leg out. Voigt had a nice goal to this spot against the Danes.

 

[SDCuse114]

What is the status of Jared Fernandez? Could use him on the face off wings

 

[CuseAlum87]

NazLax is on the money, agian.

 

[ivorytower]

Off-stick side hip is technically the toughest location for a lacrosse goalie to make a save. Head of the stick is far away and he can't make the save by sticking his leg out. Voigt had a nice goal to this spot against the Danes.

. His ball as delivered from up top obviously rises. I do recall him hitting some game winners from left side with the same shot being critiqued . Goalies scout tendencies so obviously best to mix. Adjustments always easier said than done. Good player who competes

 

[Powellfan]

Regarding Barretto and his height, forget who said it, believe it was during last year's telecast - but they stated that shorter goalies often spend extra time preparing for high shots since physically that is where they are most vulnerable. A bit of reverse psychology but the commentator said shorter goalies (and believe they said Barretto in particular) are often times much better high than they are low.

 

[ivorytower]

Great comeback win last year but Cuse can't go down 6-1 again and expect the same.

Madonna pass to Ryan Simmons for winning goal will be seen many times over the years. Great play, great moment .

Would not be surprised to see another OT thriller. If our offense posts double digits then I like our chances. Otherwise...

 

[ivorytower]

Regarding Barretto and his height, forget who said it, believe it was during last year's telecast - but they stated that shorter goalies often spend extra time preparing for high shots since physically that is where they are most vulnerable. A bit of reverse psychology but the commentator said shorter goalies (and believe they said Barretto in particular) are often times much better high than they are low.

Interesting . Goalies come in all sizes, think Cuse cast covers the gamut.. Barreto being small makes the openings more visible but he's agile with great reactions. One of his backups is Coleman who imo was the best hs goalie in NJ two years ago. He is also small , likely to face him next year.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Decided to quickly check out the youtube highlights from the last 2 army games. It is really the tale of 2 shot locations. In 2017 almost every single goal inside or outside was scored on a high shot. At one point Baretto even took his hand of his stick and raised it in the air to try and stop a shot from Rehfuss to no avail. Then last year nearly every goal was low. Baretto anticipated the high shots and he literally jumped in the air to make the few high saves they show in the highlights. It really seems show the push-pull in strategies each staff comes up with when they look at the tape. Not sure what that means going forward this year but if the goalie has to jump in the air to save high shots I would at least keep him honest by starting off going high. Off the hip is often nice but a little less nice when a goalie is so short that his shoulder is only a few inches away from his hip!

On a side note Molloy looked terrible in the 2017 game and Madonna was playing out of his mind in 2018. And Trimboli continuing to shoot high last year was borderline psychotic behavior.

 

[ivorytower]

Excellent point about clearing. We will need to "pass" to clear versus trying to have 1 guy clear on his own. Army against Marist jumped the ball carrier trying to clear multiple times and ended up with a double or triple team that of course resulted in a turnover. This area is of critical importance on Sunday. Passing and catching was better against Albany but we need to make smarter decisions. Kennedy was great defensively but had 3-4 horrific passes clearing or trying to push transition, simply can't have that in this type of game.

Geez. Went to game , two passes and far from horrific. Hope he doesn't change his approach one iota . Bad mistake trying to run up middle through four defenders , then errant pass to Solomon on created break when he should have went to goal . Had a pass intended for Bomberry up field tipped by jumping Tehoka only to strip the ball back from him and start another break, appears on tape he'd h caused six Albany turnovers with stick checks though only credited with one. His ability to push transition and create unsettled situations is needed. His two forays up field later resulted in goals by Trimboli and Aburn off such. Appreciate

 

[JeremyCuse]

Geez. Went to game , two passes and far from horrific. Hope he doesn't change his approach one iota . Bad mistake trying to run up middle through four defenders , then errant pass to Solomon on created break when he should have went to goal . Had a pass intended for Bomberry up field tipped by jumping Tehoka only to strip the ball back from him and start another break, appears on tape he'd h caused six Albany turnovers with stick checks though only credited with one. His ability to push transition and create unsettled situations is needed. His two forays up field later resulted in goals by Trimboli and Aburn off such. Appreciate

There is no bigger Kennedy fan then me, I think he should be out there 100% of the time on Defense, but those turnovers were bad. I certainly don't want him to change his MO but we can't afford for him to have 3 turnovers like he did against Albany. We can agree to disagree on the type of turnovers but when a player of Kennedy's Lax IQ tries to bust through 4 albany defenders thats the definition of horrific in my mind. SU has him officially with 3 turnovers and 1 CTO. I think they missed at least one additional CTO but we all know hes a great defender I don't need to see the stats.

 

[JeremyCuse]

What is the status of Jared Fernandez? Could use him on the face off wings

Believe he was hurt last game, would assume based on the fact he appeared to be limping while on the sidelines last week he's unlikely to play.

 

[ivorytower]

Decided to quickly check out the youtube highlights from the last 2 army games. It is really the tale of 2 shot locations. In 2017 almost every single goal inside or outside was scored on a high shot. At one point Baretto even took his hand of his stick and raised it in the air to try and stop a shot from Rehfuss to no avail. Then last year nearly every goal was low. Baretto anticipated the high shots and he literally jumped in the air to make the few high saves they show in the highlights. It really seems show the push-pull in strategies each staff comes up with when they look at the tape. Not sure what that means going forward this year but if the goalie has to jump in the air to save high shots I would at least keep him honest by starting off going high. Off the hip is often nice but a little less nice when a goalie is so short that his shoulder is only a few inches away from his hip!

On a side note Molloy looked terrible in the 2017 game and Madonna was playing out of his mind in 2018. And Trimboli continuing to shoot high last year was borderline psychotic behavior.

.

Great stuff Doctor!! Always interesting to read.
You have me in stiches with "borderline psychotic behavior" lol. Too funny.
Think Desko and staff do a good job breaking down tape . Adjustments were made last game on both ends and players executed game plan to a T. As far as individual tendencies, hard to break after all the years playing their way with success, tend to resurface despite efforts to change. Trimbo went from playing with Salcido and Mariano to leading young line. He's a really good player, like to see him put in position to attack going forward because his shot angle and placement is quite different then.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Decided to quickly check out the youtube highlights from the last 2 army games. It is really the tale of 2 shot locations. In 2017 almost every single goal inside or outside was scored on a high shot. At one point Baretto even took his hand of his stick and raised it in the air to try and stop a shot from Rehfuss to no avail. Then last year nearly every goal was low. Baretto anticipated the high shots and he literally jumped in the air to make the few high saves they show in the highlights. It really seems show the push-pull in strategies each staff comes up with when they look at the tape. Not sure what that means going forward this year but if the goalie has to jump in the air to save high shots I would at least keep him honest by starting off going high. Off the hip is often nice but a little less nice when a goalie is so short that his shoulder is only a few inches away from his hip!

On a side note Molloy looked terrible in the 2017 game and Madonna was playing out of his mind in 2018. And Trimboli continuing to shoot high last year was borderline psychotic behavior.

Those Trimbo shots in OT were one of the most frustrating times I have had watching an SU lax game. It's like he was determined to score high to high and Baretto saw them like it was a beach ball. I remember Madonna had a few great saves including 1 or 2 in OT.