USA Lax Mag Preseason Poll | Syracusefan.com

USA Lax Mag Preseason Poll

IL will likely have a different order after first six .

IMO,

#13 Army is better than #11 Lehigh. Lehigh was exposed by Rutgers , Sisselberger masks alot of averageness . Project Army to be a top ten team and the primary challenger to Loyola in Patriot

Yale and Penn are either too high at #8 and #9 or Cornell too low at #18 . Yale benefitted from great fogo while Cornell had been hindered by mediocre fogo. That talent gap at fogo position is now even and Cornell units are equal. Dont get Penn at #9. A healthy Handley may be best mid but such a high ranking surprises.

#15 JHU arguably better than #10 Rutgers at year end. Hop beat them soundly in BiG tourney and was very close to beating Maryland in final while Rutgers was blown out by Terps twice . Projecting Hopkins to finish second in b10 with Rutgers battling Michigan and OSU for third .

Torn on #12 Denver, lose some good talents as did Cuse but they have one of the better fogo duos and Connell joins Hannha, Simmons and several solid and now experienced talents. Georgetown stills win Big East regardless.

4 ACC teams in top six joined by #2 Maryland and #4 Georgetown is appropriate to start.
Loyola likely enters top five at some pt as those 4 ACC teams cannibalize each other.

Brings us to Cuse at #14 , some of these games will decide whether they stay or drop out of top fifteen or move into 5-10 range by year end. May the force be with them.

Two vs #1
One vs #2
One vs #3
Two vs #5
One vs #6
One vs #13
One vs #15


One vs #18
 
The Ivy league teams are a bit unknown.
Penn did have 3 UA AAs this past summer, including attackman Ben Smith from Boys' Latin. Junior attackman Robert Schain was a 5-star recruit back in 2019. Attackman Dylan Gergar is back for his senior year, he had 23 points in 5 games in 2020. Looks like some pretty good support for Handley. Burkinshaw is back for his senior year in goal.
 
A bit surprised to see Syracuse ranked where it is. Not the worst thing in the world, and given the schedule the team will have plenty of opportunities to prove themselves. I do think they are more talented than a few of the teams ranked above them, but given last years results I think it is understandable I can see the reasoning, even if I don't agree with it.

I still don't know what to make of the Ivy League teams. It still seems to me like they are at a serious disadvantage given that they didn't play last year and that they lost a class's worth of players, while other teams get to play with fifth year seniors (and transfers from those Ivy teams). Yale, Penn and Cornell will be playing with half their rosters having never played a DI game before, as their sophomore classes are essentially freshmen (and the freshmen still freshmen). Maybe it doesn't much matter and talent wins out. But I think I would bunch them more toward the bottom of the top 20, and keep all Ivy teams out of the top 10. Surprisingly, I think Cornell might be the most dangerous team in the league. They lost Teat but had a boat load of very good young offensive players in 2020.

Like IT pointed out, I think there are a lot of issues in that 13-10 grouping. I have no idea what people see in Rutgers, they seem like a completely different team this year made up of transfers that frankly, don't move the needle much for me. Kirst in goal is big, but other than that I just don't see difference makers on that team.

I think IT is a little harsh on Lehigh, they did not have their best offensive player against Rutgers in the tourny, but given the final score I am not sure Schelling would have made a difference. They are well rounded and get back Schelling, Mule and Kirst back on offense. I can see a top 15 ranking, but 11 does seem a little high.

Denver at #12 I really don't get, they lost the bedrock of their offense in Walker and their second best offensive player in Morrill. Hannah is very good but seems like a boom or bust player. I think they are getting a Tierney bump here, there doesn't seem to be a better explanation.

Army at #13, given their big win over Syracuse last year I can see the reasoning for ranking them higher. They have some very good players in Nichtern, Huddgins and Schluper. They also return 4 of their top 5 scorers from last year (including Nichtern). It seemed like last year they struggled with depth a little bit, but they definitely have talent. I think if you get to Nichtern they are pretty vulnerable, but that is easier said than done. I wonder about their facing off, they never seem to have a very good unit.

Anyways, I know I am biased, and Syracuse had some very rough results last year, but I also wonder how the teams ranked above them this year would have fared playing so many ACC games? I don't think any of the teams ranked above them had a win over an ACC opponent last year (at least the Orange beat UVA twice). This rankings don't really matter, but I really do think SU can finish above the teams ranked in front of them here.
 
A bit surprised to see Syracuse ranked where it is. Not the worst thing in the world, and given the schedule the team will have plenty of opportunities to prove themselves. I do think they are more talented than a few of the teams ranked above them, but given last years results I think it is understandable I can see the reasoning, even if I don't agree with it.

I still don't know what to make of the Ivy League teams. It still seems to me like they are at a serious disadvantage given that they didn't play last year and that they lost a class's worth of players, while other teams get to play with fifth year seniors (and transfers from those Ivy teams). Yale, Penn and Cornell will be playing with half their rosters having never played a DI game before, as their sophomore classes are essentially freshmen (and the freshmen still freshmen). Maybe it doesn't much matter and talent wins out. But I think I would bunch them more toward the bottom of the top 20, and keep all Ivy teams out of the top 10. Surprisingly, I think Cornell might be the most dangerous team in the league. They lost Teat but had a boat load of very good young offensive players in 2020.

Like IT pointed out, I think there are a lot of issues in that 13-10 grouping. I have no idea what people see in Rutgers, they seem like a completely different team this year made up of transfers that frankly, don't move the needle much for me. Kirst in goal is big, but other than that I just don't see difference makers on that team.

I think IT is a little harsh on Lehigh, they did not have their best offensive player against Rutgers in the tourny, but given the final score I am not sure Schelling would have made a difference. They are well rounded and get back Schelling, Mule and Kirst back on offense. I can see a top 15 ranking, but 11 does seem a little high.

Denver at #12 I really don't get, they lost the bedrock of their offense in Walker and their second best offensive player in Morrill. Hannah is very good but seems like a boom or bust player. I think they are getting a Tierney bump here, there doesn't seem to be a better explanation.

Army at #13, given their big win over Syracuse last year I can see the reasoning for ranking them higher. They have some very good players in Nichtern, Huddgins and Schluper. They also return 4 of their top 5 scorers from last year (including Nichtern). It seemed like last year they struggled with depth a little bit, but they definitely have talent. I think if you get to Nichtern they are pretty vulnerable, but that is easier said than done. I wonder about their facing off, they never seem to have a very good unit.

Anyways, I know I am biased, and Syracuse had some very rough results last year, but I also wonder how the teams ranked above them this year would have fared playing so many ACC games? I don't think any of the teams ranked above them had a win over an ACC opponent last year (at least the Orange beat UVA twice). This rankings don't really matter, but I really do think SU can finish above the teams ranked in front of them here.

Agree with most of this. I think Syracuse and Hopkins are both going to be better than Rutgers, Lehigh, and Denver.

I'm with you on Rutgers and Denver but I'm with IT on Lehigh. Without Sisselberger they're a borderline top 20 team. They were lucky that game against Loyola at the end of the season was canceled because they would have lost. Got clobbered by a meh Villanova team the week before.

I'm fine with Yale in the top 10 based on recruiting talent and Shay's track record. He deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Tierney. But Penn also in the top 10 is weird. They've lost so much from that great 2019 team. They were not especially good in the abbreviated 2020 season. Tough schedule yes but they were 2-3 with a loss to Villanova and they barely squeaked by St. Joe's. I would expect their 2022 team to be closer to the 2020 one than the 2019 one, but a top 10 preseason ranking suggests the opposite.

Some combo of UVA-Maryland-Duke-GTown-ND-UNC-Loyola-Yale would be my top 8 and then some order of Cuse, Army, Hopkins for 9-11, THEN Rutgers, Denver, Lehigh 12-14. I'd put Penn down near Cornell in the 16-20 range.
 
Agree with most of this. I think Syracuse and Hopkins are both going to be better than Rutgers, Lehigh, and Denver.

I'm with you on Rutgers and Denver but I'm with IT on Lehigh. Without Sisselberger they're a borderline top 20 team. They were lucky that game against Loyola at the end of the season was canceled because they would have lost. Got clobbered by a meh Villanova team the week before.

I'm fine with Yale in the top 10 based on recruiting talent and Shay's track record. He deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Tierney. But Penn also in the top 10 is weird. They've lost so much from that great 2019 team. They were not especially good in the abbreviated 2020 season. Tough schedule yes but they were 2-3 with a loss to Villanova and they barely squeaked by St. Joe's. I would expect their 2022 team to be closer to the 2020 one than the 2019 one, but a top 10 preseason ranking suggests the opposite.

Some combo of UVA-Maryland-Duke-GTown-ND-UNC-Loyola-Yale would be my top 8 and then some order of Cuse, Army, Hopkins for 9-11, THEN Rutgers, Denver, Lehigh 12-14. I'd put Penn down near Cornell in the 16-20 range.
It is fair to mention that Penn's star, Sam Handley, went out with a ruptured spleen after the season opening Maryland game in 2020. Penn's loss to PSU was in overtime, and the loss by 2 to Villanova without Handley. Hard not to feel those probably would have been wins with Handley.

The Ivy League might suffer some from not having played last year but given Yale's recent success #8 seems reasonable for them. Penn appears to have quite a bit more talent than most of the teams out past 15, so I would put them in the 11-15 range. I guess Cornell will be trying out a new coaching staff, and Teat is gone, so perhaps #18 is reasonable for them.
 
48.8%

The last time we saw Cornell on a field in a real game was that amazing battle with Penn State in March 2020. Since then, Jeff Teat has moved on and the team missed all of 2021. If you want to highlight an heir apparent, look at John Piatelli. He shot a career high 48.8 percent in 2020, and his efficiency marks were better for the third straight season. If he can maintain that efficiency in what will be a larger role, the post-Teat drop-off may not be too steep. — Zack Capozzi
Has no one learned anything from Mac O'Keefe without Grant Ament? Your shooters are not going to maintain production or efficiency when you remove the engine of the offense. Piatelli is a good player but I don't understand how anyone could think there's even a possibility he keeps pace without Teat.
 
Has no one learned anything from Mac O'Keefe without Grant Ament? Your shooters are not going to maintain production or efficiency when you remove the engine of the offense. Piatelli is a good player but I don't understand how anyone could think there's even a possibility he keeps pace without Teat.
Not the same as Ameent Okeefe dynamic .

Those Cornell atackman attack and will play off each other well

Piatelli has package and Ive seen damage done by Long and Kirst at Delbarton.. That attack is gonna be very good.

Can draw some parallel to our attack unit with Dordevic minus Refhuss
 
Cornell is going to be good. Id place them between 10-15

People dont realize how good Long and Kirst really are. CJ is the best of the excellent Kirst .

Last time he and Long played together was at Delbarton in 19'. sr Long was 43-61-104 and jr Kirst was 66-30-96. facing the best comp. . Both will score and distribute, along with Piatelli that is gonna be one hell of a attack
 
Not the same as Ameent Okeefe dynamic .

Those Cornell atackman attack and will play off each other well

Piatelli has package and Ive seen damage done by Long and Kirst at Delbarton.. That attack is gonna be very good.

Can draw some parallel to our attack unit with Dordevic minus Refhuss

It's similar to the Ament O'Keefe dynamic. Like O'Keefe, Piatelli is a very good player on his own, but a large portion of his goal scoring the last 2+ years was the result of Teat's generational talent. Everything in that offense fed off of Teat's gravity, either directly or indirectly. So everyone including and especially Piatelli will now have to adapt. Long and Kirst have combined for 5 collegiate lacrosse games and while both are promising, neither will attract the kind of defensive attention that Teat had. I'm sure they will play off each other well and that the attack will be good, but it won't be the same. Which is all that I'm saying. Piatelli won't shoot 49% or "maintain efficiency" without Teat.
 
No its not , not comparable. Piatelli and Long are not promising , they are already here and Kirst will quickly arrive as a stud. The latter two are talented passers and dodgers . Lehigh 's Shelling is their best attackman aging almost 5 pts per and he didnt compare to either a Delby. Khan didnt have the same success at Derby as either and he is simply terrific . Teat had great vision and could pass within a small window but he wasn't the breakdown player that drew doubles. He made Petersen for sure. It all about who is next to step up and replace and Cornell attack wont be as affected as much as their mids. I would argue that Cornell 3 mids moving on were a larger loss than Teat given the Cornell attack
 
This is a nice debate. It does appear that Cornell will have good talent on the attack, but it seems a little much to say a guy who was the #9 recruit will definitely be as good as Jeff Teat.
Comparing players based on high school seems a little questionable - as their games and how they develop often vary in college.
Khan did have a nice sophomore year with 50 points in 15 games, but he wasn't named an All-American and CJ Kirst is entering his sophomore year. Is Khan simply terrific? I guess he was named HM AA last year. I tend to think of Jared Bernhardt as simply terrific. Hopefully, Khan will be simply terrific for the Terps this spring, although I am still wondering if he will beat out Eric Malever.
 
This is a nice debate. It does appear that Cornell will have good talent on the attack, but it seems a little much to say a guy who was the #9 recruit will definitely be as good as Jeff Teat.
Comparing players based on high school seems a little questionable - as their games and how they develop often vary in college.
Khan did have a nice sophomore year with 50 points in 15 games, but he wasn't named an All-American and CJ Kirst is entering his sophomore year. Is Khan simply terrific? I guess he was named HM AA last year. I tend to think of Jared Bernhardt as simply terrific. Hopefully, Khan will be simply terrific for the Terps this spring, although I am still wondering if he will beat out Eric Malever.
Good lawd. No one is saying any are the equal of Teat but you have to consider the abilities of whom returns and not just default otherwise there are about ten top twenty teams who will fall hard based on one special player . Is Maryland dropping hard without Bernhardt, Sowers without Duke, UVA without Conners ? Not talking about Rutgers attack unit that needs to replace two terrific talents and one good one .
Cornell attack be just fine and a team strength, their larger questions will be at midfield and perhaps defense. Petrakis has turned a weakness to a strength Ierlan is not a 40% goalie, that will go up. Khan is terrific imo asked Georgetown and my use of the word is appropriate for me as I apply it to many very good players, use ithe adjective differently in your own posts if you will. . Bernhardt was special, let me know when I use that description liberally since they are fewer..
 
No its not , not comparable. Piatelli and Long are not promising , they are already here and Kirst will quickly arrive as a stud. The latter two are talented passers and dodgers . Lehigh 's Shelling is their best attackman aging almost 5 pts per and he didnt compare to either a Delby. Khan didnt have the same success at Derby as either and he is simply terrific . Teat had great vision and could pass within a small window but he wasn't the breakdown player that drew doubles. He made Petersen for sure. It all about who is next to step up and replace and Cornell attack wont be as affected as much as their mids. I would argue that Cornell 3 mids moving on were a larger loss than Teat given the Cornell attack

This is all nice but still think it's a wild take to expect Piatelli to maintain the same efficiency without Teat. Never said anything about Cornell as a whole having a huge drop off. Seems weird that Teat could "make" Petterson but apparently not have much of an impact on Piatelli's production? If you think that his efficiency won't see any kind of decline sans Teat, well, we will see soon enough!
 
This is all nice but still think it's a wild take to expect Piatelli to maintain the same efficiency without Teat. Never said anything about Cornell as a whole having a huge drop off. Seems weird that Teat could "make" Petterson but apparently not have much of an impact on Piatelli's production? If you think that his efficiency won't see any kind of decline sans Teat, well, we will see soon enough!

I think there is a difference between saying he will suffer a drop off, which I don't think IT is arguing, and making a Ament to O'Keefe comparison. O'Keefe is a tremendous shooter but is not a player who can create his own shot. He fit perfectly with Ament who could shake and bake and also had incredible vision. Last year's Penn State team did not have the sort of talent who could make up for Ament's loss. Piatelli on the other hand seems like a more well rounded attackman and also is surrounded by a better supporting cast than O'Keefe was at Penn State last year.
 
Glad it worked out so well for Donnelly. Didnt see that season coming to be frank but happy for the kid.
 
I think there is a difference between saying he will suffer a drop off, which I don't think IT is arguing, and making a Ament to O'Keefe comparison. O'Keefe is a tremendous shooter but is not a player who can create his own shot. He fit perfectly with Ament who could shake and bake and also had incredible vision. Last year's Penn State team did not have the sort of talent who could make up for Ament's loss. Piatelli on the other hand seems like a more well rounded attackman and also is surrounded by a better supporting cast than O'Keefe was at Penn State last year.

It's similar in that Piatelli's efficiency is going to drop off without Teat. Obviously they are different players but that's not what I was saying. If you think he's still going to shoot 50% this year then by all means. Like I said, we will know soon, provided the Ivy has a full season. Regardless, looking forward to seeing Cornell after such a long layoff and think they'll still be a solid team.
 
So now its about measure of one % in five games not the production and play of an individual and unit?
btw, Piatelli efficiency numbers was .43 playing with Teat in both of the full seasons (32 games) To reiterate Teat while a fantastic orchestrator was not the only one who contributed to that team's efficient play over his years .While Teat lead in both assists and turnovers ,mids such as Donville, Fletcher and Telesco were crisp players that also factored.. Who fills in at mid is what factors moreso than what is at attack. Anyway, I also look forward to Cornell's return to play and keen to see if promising Long becomes the terrific young player that I foresee. Will be expecting CJ to turn out to be the best of the Kirsts and that is high praise as Connor was one helluva player and Cole aint shabby.

Turning back to Cuse on what nyclax raised.

Powell, do you remember me likening a relatively unheralded Refhuss to Teat lite when some thought we should move on from him for 21. Ponder this , in 51 gs. Teat had 152 assists and 103 turnovers, Refhuss in 46 gs 110 a, only 57 to's. Ref just selected as Top 50 PLL and finished ninth there n total points. (Teat was third) Should we have any concern about attack drop off because he was our orchestrator, we lost our main scorer in Scanlan and Seebold has started only three games while Dordevic has yet to play the position in colleg? Im not, attack will also be out strength despite the loss of Ref. Hiltz is a AA talent , Seebold has talent and will raise his game and Dordevic will be a flat out scorer despite any sh%
 
So now its about measure of one % in five games not the production and play of an individual and unit?
btw, Piatelli efficiency numbers was .43 playing with Teat in both of the full seasons (32 games) To reiterate Teat while a fantastic orchestrator was not the only one who contributed to that team's efficient play over his years .While Teat lead in both assists and turnovers ,mids such as Donville, Fletcher and Telesco were crisp players that also factored.. Who fills in at mid is what factors moreso than what is at attack. Anyway, I also look forward to Cornell's return to play and keen to see if promising Long becomes the terrific young player that I foresee. Will be expecting CJ to turn out to be the best of the Kirsts and that is high praise as Connor was one helluva player and Cole aint shabby.

Turning back to Cuse on what nyclax raised.

Powell, do you remember me likening a relatively unheralded Refhuss to Teat lite when some thought we should move on from him for 21. Ponder this , in 51 gs. Teat had 152 assists and 103 turnovers, Refhuss in 46 gs 110 a, only 57 to's. Ref just selected as Top 50 PLL and finished ninth there n total points. (Teat was third) Should we have any concern about attack drop off because he was our orchestrator, we lost our main scorer in Scanlan and Seebold has started only three games while Dordevic has yet to play the position in colleg? Im not, attack will also be out strength despite the loss of Ref. Hiltz is a AA talent , Seebold has talent and will raise his game and Dordevic will be a flat out scorer despite any sh%
Teat's playing time in the PLL was shorter - he played fewer games as he was waiting for a visa at the beginning of the season.
 
Teat's playing time in the PLL was shorter - he played fewer games as he was waiting for a visa at the beginning of the season.
Listed Refhuss PLL standing in points to show how legit Reff has become , he was underrated , always wanted him to be more aggressive shooting and was pleased to see 14 goals in 9 pll games besides distributing and only turning the ball over a dozen times agaisnt top defenders who are physical , btw he was actually twelfth not ninth upon rechecked , listed Teat not for comparison but because figured that would be asked.. Ament finished first in pts and assists playing nine games. Teat is a great player, 16-16 -32 in seven games, higher pts per game than Ament but also highest turnover ratio in league with 26. Wish these composite stats would show minutes played
 
Good lawd. No one is saying any are the equal of Teat but you have to consider the abilities of whom returns and not just default otherwise there are about ten top twenty teams who will fall hard based on one special player . Is Maryland dropping hard without Bernhardt, Sowers without Duke, UVA without Conners ? Not talking about Rutgers attack unit that needs to replace two terrific talents and one good one .
Cornell attack be just fine and a team strength, their larger questions will be at midfield and perhaps defense. Petrakis has turned a weakness to a strength Ierlan is not a 40% goalie, that will go up. Khan is terrific imo asked Georgetown and my use of the word is appropriate for me as I apply it to many very good players, use ithe adjective differently in your own posts if you will. . Bernhardt was special, let me know when I use that description liber

The word "terrific" is not really synonymous with "very good", thus you can lead people to misunderstand what you are posting.
 

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