OrangeXtreme
The Mayor of Dewitt
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- Aug 15, 2011
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A bit surprised to see Syracuse ranked where it is. Not the worst thing in the world, and given the schedule the team will have plenty of opportunities to prove themselves. I do think they are more talented than a few of the teams ranked above them, but given last years results I think it is understandable I can see the reasoning, even if I don't agree with it.
I still don't know what to make of the Ivy League teams. It still seems to me like they are at a serious disadvantage given that they didn't play last year and that they lost a class's worth of players, while other teams get to play with fifth year seniors (and transfers from those Ivy teams). Yale, Penn and Cornell will be playing with half their rosters having never played a DI game before, as their sophomore classes are essentially freshmen (and the freshmen still freshmen). Maybe it doesn't much matter and talent wins out. But I think I would bunch them more toward the bottom of the top 20, and keep all Ivy teams out of the top 10. Surprisingly, I think Cornell might be the most dangerous team in the league. They lost Teat but had a boat load of very good young offensive players in 2020.
Like IT pointed out, I think there are a lot of issues in that 13-10 grouping. I have no idea what people see in Rutgers, they seem like a completely different team this year made up of transfers that frankly, don't move the needle much for me. Kirst in goal is big, but other than that I just don't see difference makers on that team.
I think IT is a little harsh on Lehigh, they did not have their best offensive player against Rutgers in the tourny, but given the final score I am not sure Schelling would have made a difference. They are well rounded and get back Schelling, Mule and Kirst back on offense. I can see a top 15 ranking, but 11 does seem a little high.
Denver at #12 I really don't get, they lost the bedrock of their offense in Walker and their second best offensive player in Morrill. Hannah is very good but seems like a boom or bust player. I think they are getting a Tierney bump here, there doesn't seem to be a better explanation.
Army at #13, given their big win over Syracuse last year I can see the reasoning for ranking them higher. They have some very good players in Nichtern, Huddgins and Schluper. They also return 4 of their top 5 scorers from last year (including Nichtern). It seemed like last year they struggled with depth a little bit, but they definitely have talent. I think if you get to Nichtern they are pretty vulnerable, but that is easier said than done. I wonder about their facing off, they never seem to have a very good unit.
Anyways, I know I am biased, and Syracuse had some very rough results last year, but I also wonder how the teams ranked above them this year would have fared playing so many ACC games? I don't think any of the teams ranked above them had a win over an ACC opponent last year (at least the Orange beat UVA twice). This rankings don't really matter, but I really do think SU can finish above the teams ranked in front of them here.
It is fair to mention that Penn's star, Sam Handley, went out with a ruptured spleen after the season opening Maryland game in 2020. Penn's loss to PSU was in overtime, and the loss by 2 to Villanova without Handley. Hard not to feel those probably would have been wins with Handley.Agree with most of this. I think Syracuse and Hopkins are both going to be better than Rutgers, Lehigh, and Denver.
I'm with you on Rutgers and Denver but I'm with IT on Lehigh. Without Sisselberger they're a borderline top 20 team. They were lucky that game against Loyola at the end of the season was canceled because they would have lost. Got clobbered by a meh Villanova team the week before.
I'm fine with Yale in the top 10 based on recruiting talent and Shay's track record. He deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Tierney. But Penn also in the top 10 is weird. They've lost so much from that great 2019 team. They were not especially good in the abbreviated 2020 season. Tough schedule yes but they were 2-3 with a loss to Villanova and they barely squeaked by St. Joe's. I would expect their 2022 team to be closer to the 2020 one than the 2019 one, but a top 10 preseason ranking suggests the opposite.
Some combo of UVA-Maryland-Duke-GTown-ND-UNC-Loyola-Yale would be my top 8 and then some order of Cuse, Army, Hopkins for 9-11, THEN Rutgers, Denver, Lehigh 12-14. I'd put Penn down near Cornell in the 16-20 range.
Has no one learned anything from Mac O'Keefe without Grant Ament? Your shooters are not going to maintain production or efficiency when you remove the engine of the offense. Piatelli is a good player but I don't understand how anyone could think there's even a possibility he keeps pace without Teat.48.8%
The last time we saw Cornell on a field in a real game was that amazing battle with Penn State in March 2020. Since then, Jeff Teat has moved on and the team missed all of 2021. If you want to highlight an heir apparent, look at John Piatelli. He shot a career high 48.8 percent in 2020, and his efficiency marks were better for the third straight season. If he can maintain that efficiency in what will be a larger role, the post-Teat drop-off may not be too steep. — Zack Capozzi
Not the same as Ameent Okeefe dynamic .Has no one learned anything from Mac O'Keefe without Grant Ament? Your shooters are not going to maintain production or efficiency when you remove the engine of the offense. Piatelli is a good player but I don't understand how anyone could think there's even a possibility he keeps pace without Teat.
Not the same as Ameent Okeefe dynamic .
Those Cornell atackman attack and will play off each other well
Piatelli has package and Ive seen damage done by Long and Kirst at Delbarton.. That attack is gonna be very good.
Can draw some parallel to our attack unit with Dordevic minus Refhuss
Good lawd. No one is saying any are the equal of Teat but you have to consider the abilities of whom returns and not just default otherwise there are about ten top twenty teams who will fall hard based on one special player . Is Maryland dropping hard without Bernhardt, Sowers without Duke, UVA without Conners ? Not talking about Rutgers attack unit that needs to replace two terrific talents and one good one .This is a nice debate. It does appear that Cornell will have good talent on the attack, but it seems a little much to say a guy who was the #9 recruit will definitely be as good as Jeff Teat.
Comparing players based on high school seems a little questionable - as their games and how they develop often vary in college.
Khan did have a nice sophomore year with 50 points in 15 games, but he wasn't named an All-American and CJ Kirst is entering his sophomore year. Is Khan simply terrific? I guess he was named HM AA last year. I tend to think of Jared Bernhardt as simply terrific. Hopefully, Khan will be simply terrific for the Terps this spring, although I am still wondering if he will beat out Eric Malever.
No its not , not comparable. Piatelli and Long are not promising , they are already here and Kirst will quickly arrive as a stud. The latter two are talented passers and dodgers . Lehigh 's Shelling is their best attackman aging almost 5 pts per and he didnt compare to either a Delby. Khan didnt have the same success at Derby as either and he is simply terrific . Teat had great vision and could pass within a small window but he wasn't the breakdown player that drew doubles. He made Petersen for sure. It all about who is next to step up and replace and Cornell attack wont be as affected as much as their mids. I would argue that Cornell 3 mids moving on were a larger loss than Teat given the Cornell attack
This is all nice but still think it's a wild take to expect Piatelli to maintain the same efficiency without Teat. Never said anything about Cornell as a whole having a huge drop off. Seems weird that Teat could "make" Petterson but apparently not have much of an impact on Piatelli's production? If you think that his efficiency won't see any kind of decline sans Teat, well, we will see soon enough!
I think there is a difference between saying he will suffer a drop off, which I don't think IT is arguing, and making a Ament to O'Keefe comparison. O'Keefe is a tremendous shooter but is not a player who can create his own shot. He fit perfectly with Ament who could shake and bake and also had incredible vision. Last year's Penn State team did not have the sort of talent who could make up for Ament's loss. Piatelli on the other hand seems like a more well rounded attackman and also is surrounded by a better supporting cast than O'Keefe was at Penn State last year.
Teat's playing time in the PLL was shorter - he played fewer games as he was waiting for a visa at the beginning of the season.So now its about measure of one % in five games not the production and play of an individual and unit?
btw, Piatelli efficiency numbers was .43 playing with Teat in both of the full seasons (32 games) To reiterate Teat while a fantastic orchestrator was not the only one who contributed to that team's efficient play over his years .While Teat lead in both assists and turnovers ,mids such as Donville, Fletcher and Telesco were crisp players that also factored.. Who fills in at mid is what factors moreso than what is at attack. Anyway, I also look forward to Cornell's return to play and keen to see if promising Long becomes the terrific young player that I foresee. Will be expecting CJ to turn out to be the best of the Kirsts and that is high praise as Connor was one helluva player and Cole aint shabby.
Turning back to Cuse on what nyclax raised.
Powell, do you remember me likening a relatively unheralded Refhuss to Teat lite when some thought we should move on from him for 21. Ponder this , in 51 gs. Teat had 152 assists and 103 turnovers, Refhuss in 46 gs 110 a, only 57 to's. Ref just selected as Top 50 PLL and finished ninth there n total points. (Teat was third) Should we have any concern about attack drop off because he was our orchestrator, we lost our main scorer in Scanlan and Seebold has started only three games while Dordevic has yet to play the position in colleg? Im not, attack will also be out strength despite the loss of Ref. Hiltz is a AA talent , Seebold has talent and will raise his game and Dordevic will be a flat out scorer despite any sh%
Listed Refhuss PLL standing in points to show how legit Reff has become , he was underrated , always wanted him to be more aggressive shooting and was pleased to see 14 goals in 9 pll games besides distributing and only turning the ball over a dozen times agaisnt top defenders who are physical , btw he was actually twelfth not ninth upon rechecked , listed Teat not for comparison but because figured that would be asked.. Ament finished first in pts and assists playing nine games. Teat is a great player, 16-16 -32 in seven games, higher pts per game than Ament but also highest turnover ratio in league with 26. Wish these composite stats would show minutes playedTeat's playing time in the PLL was shorter - he played fewer games as he was waiting for a visa at the beginning of the season.
Good lawd. No one is saying any are the equal of Teat but you have to consider the abilities of whom returns and not just default otherwise there are about ten top twenty teams who will fall hard based on one special player . Is Maryland dropping hard without Bernhardt, Sowers without Duke, UVA without Conners ? Not talking about Rutgers attack unit that needs to replace two terrific talents and one good one .
Cornell attack be just fine and a team strength, their larger questions will be at midfield and perhaps defense. Petrakis has turned a weakness to a strength Ierlan is not a 40% goalie, that will go up. Khan is terrific imo asked Georgetown and my use of the word is appropriate for me as I apply it to many very good players, use ithe adjective differently in your own posts if you will. . Bernhardt was special, let me know when I use that description liber