Very good article about Big 12 expansion, or lack thereof

[orangepassion]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...-with-10-amid-the-latest-round-of-realignment

 

[ImperialOrange]

That article seems written by a big 12 homer. The big 12 cant expand by grabbing teams from anuwhere but the acc. If the acc teams arent leaving then they have no moves left to make.

Meanwhile the big 12 is at risk from 3 other conferences vs 2 for the acc just based on simple geography. If 1 or 2 teams leave the acc it could just fill with uconn and/or cinci. Not ideal but the conference survives. If 1 or more big 12 schools that other conferences would want were to move, the conference would have little recourse.

 

[orangenirvana]

Reads like a Big 12 commercial.

 

[orangepassion]

Yeah, but it's tough for them to move w/ the whole media rights deal.

 

[HtownOrange]

Nice article full of baloney.

The Big 12 cannot expand except with Big East and lesser conferences, or schools that will not move a needle (Cincy and UConn may be nice adds, but neither has national recognition nor a large enough fanbase). No Pac, SEC, B1G nor ACC (FSU and Clemson fans can state otherwise, but the leadership does NOT want the Big 12).

The Big 12 is already being paid for their championship game. This was done to keep the conference together. Fox has already stated that if they expand to 12, there would be no additional money and the game would be expected to be played.

No market for a Big 12 Network. Hmmmmm, the PAC 12 is doing this with 12 teams and doing it well. This statement is only true because Texas refused to share their network with anyone (OK, they did offer TAMU a 1/3 share, but TAMU was keen on UT). OU has to start their own (it may be in conjunction with OSU) and I think Kansas was looking into it. The ACC is currently working with ESPN to transfer some of its rights to establish an ACC Network, but the writer seems to be unable to apply this to the Big 12.

On expansion, the writer conveniently leaves out the obvious elephant in the living room that is the PAC which cannot expand except by heading east, which brings it directly to the Big 12 first. Also, the writer assumes the SEC will not take a Big 12 team, only ACC teams, realistically, if the PAC attacks the Big 12, the SEC may try for OU.

The GOR is not as secure as everyone pretends. To begin with, we assume the GOR is actually enforceable, as it has never been tested, it can be ruled void or something less. Next, it is a diminishing security, assuming it is fully enforceable, that is, the GOR looses value each year it is in place. Compare the B1G where a leaving team gives up all income and rights to the BTN, or the ACC where damages are 3X the current year's income, both of which increase annually. finally, the GOR can be broken via agreement and/or practicality. If the PAC takes 4 teams, the B1G one or two, the conference can dissolve itself, voiding the GOR. The TV partners can force the same, if Texas is not on board (i.e. Texas to the PAC, B1G, SEC, ACC), there effectively is no Big 12. OU is a king, but has no significant markets.

Another point on GOR's is that even if the GOR is fully enforceable against Texas or OU, it is NOT enforceable against the gaining conference. Meaning that Texas and OU can go to the PAC and the draw of Texas and OU may actually bring enough into the PAC at the UT and OU away games to warrant bringing them in, even though the UT and OU home games might belong to someone else. USC is the only real king, Oregon is a newby on the national scene, Stanford is up and down (not enough brilliant elite level players), the Arizona schools have seemingly forgotten how to play football.


The only things the writer stated that were fully correct are:

"Further conclusion: Any league that includes those two schools [Texas/Oklahoma] remains worth keeping together.
All this comes with a huge disclaimer: As long as there are lawyers, never say never."

 

[MaxwellCuse]

That article seems written by a big 12 homer. The big 12 cant expand by grabbing teams from anuwhere but the acc. If the acc teams arent leaving then they have no moves left to make.

Meanwhile the big 12 is at risk from 3 other conferences vs 2 for the acc just based on simple geography. If 1 or 2 teams leave the acc it could just fill with uconn and/or cinci. Not ideal but the conference survives. If 1 or more big 12 schools that other conferences would want were to move, the conference would have little recourse.

It was written by a Big 12 homer. Still, he makes some valid points. Nonetheless, I expect that if the Big 12 ever expands it will be picking up schools such as Colorado State, Cincinnati, Houston, Boise State, BYU and New Mexico before it sniffs FSU and Clemson. The latter, I think, are still at risk to the SEC if the End Times come. Right now the Big 12 won't add unless the new school(s) are at worst revenue neutral. They won't be so picky, however, if the day of the superconference ever arrives.

 

[KaiserUEO]

again...WHY THE F DOES THE bevo get so MUCH $$$??

its texas and oklahoma.

kstate is good, nobody cares.

baylor is good, crazy athletic kid wins a heisman...nobody cares or even watched.

tboone pickens u?? puh-leez

the rest is sheeit

why?? why???!! please explain??

:bang::bang::bang:

Oh Lord

 

[OrangeMojo]

I didn't realize the SEC was so close to launching their own network. Just makes it that much more important for the ACC to not only launch their own network soon, but to structure it in a way that it brings in enough revenue to keep them within sniffing distance of the other conferences. Swofford better be looking at the total landscape and somehow wring the most possible $ out of a new ACC network deal - not just sign on with ESPN/Raycom for some incremental benefit that still leaves them significantly behind the Big10/SEC for the sake of keeping crappy Raycom in the mix.

 

[Chip]

again...WHY THE F DOES THE bevo get so MUCH $$$??

its texas and oklahoma.

kstate is good, nobody cares.

baylor is good, crazy athletic kid wins a heisman...nobody cares or even watched.

tboone pickens u?? puh-leez

the rest is sheeit

why?? why???!! please explain??

:bang::bang::bang:

Oh Lord

It's all Texas. But Texas now has to share it equally with the other league members. Because taking their "fair share" is what led the other schools to leave. Ironic.

The thought that Texas is bound to this league by a GOR is laughable. I'm sure they know exactly how to get out of that, when and if they should decide to.

 

[All4SU]

It's all Texas. But Texas now has to share it equally with the other league members. Because taking their "fair share" is what led the other schools to leave. Ironic.

The thought that Texas is bound to this league by a GOR is laughable. I'm sure they know exactly how to get out of that, when and if they should decide to.

When the time comes, it will go before a Texas court and Judge Roy Bean will set the rest of the B12 straight.

 

[shantydaze]

I didn't realize the SEC was so close to launching their own network. Just makes it that much more important for the ACC to not only launch their own network soon, but to structure it in a way that it brings in enough revenue to keep them within sniffing distance of the other conferences. Swofford better be looking at the total landscape and somehow wring the most possible $ out of a new ACC network deal - not just sign on with ESPN/Raycom for some incremental benefit that still leaves them significantly behind the Big10/SEC for the sake of keeping crappy Raycom in the mix.

This. An ACC Network would end the speculation as it is what really makes money for conferences. Other than in a state as large and football crazy as Texas, networks featuring individual schools or one state's schools have limited appeal outside of those states. Unless Texas allows the LHN to be folded into a XII network in which all of the member schools share equally, if the Pac, B1G, $EC and ACC all have viable networks, they will be stronger conferences even if the XII has stronger teams on the field.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Nice article full of baloney.

The Big 12 cannot expand except with Big East and lesser conferences, or schools that will not move a needle (Cincy and UConn may be nice adds, but neither has national recognition nor a large enough fanbase). No Pac, SEC, B1G nor ACC (FSU and Clemson fans can state otherwise, but the leadership does NOT want the Big 12).

The Big 12 is already being paid for their championship game. This was done to keep the conference together. Fox has already stated that if they expand to 12, there would be no additional money and the game would be expected to be played.

No market for a Big 12 Network. Hmmmmm, the PAC 12 is doing this with 12 teams and doing it well. This statement is only true because Texas refused to share their network with anyone (OK, they did offer TAMU a 1/3 share, but TAMU was keen on UT). OU has to start their own (it may be in conjunction with OSU) and I think Kansas was looking into it. The ACC is currently working with ESPN to transfer some of its rights to establish an ACC Network, but the writer seems to be unable to apply this to the Big 12.

On expansion, the writer conveniently leaves out the obvious elephant in the living room that is the PAC which cannot expand except by heading east, which brings it directly to the Big 12 first. Also, the writer assumes the SEC will not take a Big 12 team, only ACC teams, realistically, if the PAC attacks the Big 12, the SEC may try for OU.

The GOR is not as secure as everyone pretends. To begin with, we assume the GOR is actually enforceable, as it has never been tested, it can be ruled void or something less. Next, it is a diminishing security, assuming it is fully enforceable, that is, the GOR looses value each year it is in place. Compare the B1G where a leaving team gives up all income and rights to the BTN, or the ACC where damages are 3X the current year's income, both of which increase annually. finally, the GOR can be broken via agreement and/or practicality. If the PAC takes 4 teams, the B1G one or two, the conference can dissolve itself, voiding the GOR. The TV partners can force the same, if Texas is not on board (i.e. Texas to the PAC, B1G, SEC, ACC), there effectively is no Big 12. OU is a king, but has no significant markets.

Another point on GOR's is that even if the GOR is fully enforceable against Texas or OU, it is NOT enforceable against the gaining conference. Meaning that Texas and OU can go to the PAC and the draw of Texas and OU may actually bring enough into the PAC at the UT and OU away games to warrant bringing them in, even though the UT and OU home games might belong to someone else. USC is the only real king, Oregon is a newby on the national scene, Stanford is up and down (not enough brilliant elite level players), the Arizona schools have seemingly forgotten how to play football.


The only things the writer stated that were fully correct are:

"Further conclusion: Any league that includes those two schools [Texas/Oklahoma] remains worth keeping together.
All this comes with a huge disclaimer: As long as there are lawyers, never say never."

Good post.
Has the GOR been signed- seems I keep seeing conflicting reports about this.

 

[HtownOrange]

Good post.
Has the GOR been signed- seems I keep seeing conflicting reports about this.

I haven't found anything official, but then I haven't researched it exhaustively. A definite "Maybe", with both feet firmly planted in midair! (And no, I am NOT a politician!)