We were fooled

SBU72

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I think one of the reasons why so many here are PO'd is that we were fooled. And nobody likes to be fooled. I mean, we thought that QG was the second coming of Oshea, maybe even better. The Italy trip gave glimpses of it. The exhibition games should have given a clue that he is a NRFPT(not ready for primr time) player but we though JB was just giving the other forwards playing time. Turns out he not only didn't start but played just 13 minutes and had zeroes across the sheet. We though that maybe Carey had matured to settle down or if he hadn't, Goodine would be a more than capable sub. Nope. The "pg's" played just 26 minutes, had just 2 pts and 1 assist. The best pg was the kid that many thought might be NRFPT and at best a 2g, Girard, was the better of the group. Again maybe glimpsed that during the exhibition games. Now in reverse, we thought Braswell was ready. The exhibition showed a capable, smooth player who could shoot, rebound, and run the floor. We worried were he would get his minutes and the answer was he didn't not even on a night when nobody was effective. Italy gave hopes a a resurgence of the center position. Sid offered hope of that with Edwards a capable backup. There were hopes that Marek could get just a few minutes there even just to ease the jam at forward. Nope, didn't happen with the centers getting just 27 minutes with 4 pts and 3 rbs. Won't get into what the gave up to opposing big men. And speaking of Marek, we wondered where he would get his minutes. Shouldn't have, he played 40. About the minutes played, we thought 10 would play. Wrong only 9. At least an eight man rotation. Wrong, 7 got 10+ minutes. The 6 exhibition games showed up tempo. Nope. Of course Virginia was a major factor for all of this. The defending NC, tough defending, slow pace team and all.

So basically we were fooled. They mostly were NRFPT. And that angers many/most. Personally, I wasn't. Just disappointed. Do I dare hope that the next 4 games will get them ready. At least to a point were we don't get fooled again. So if over these next few games, even if they are blowouts, perhaps we should tone down the high expectations so we don't get fooled again.
 

Eric15

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It’s been one game against arguably the greatest defensive minded coach in the country
Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
 

SBU72

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It’s been one game against arguably the greatest defensive minded coach in the country
Oh I agree. The nature of this board (perhaps all fan sites) is big swings, highs and lows. When the 1st game crashes from high hopes to a record setting low, the anguish is even worse. My biggest disappointment is having to wait a week to see how the team responds. There is a reason why teams usually with a "weak" schedule and its not to just to shake out the kinks. Its to build confidence and team unity. A real stinker to open up blows that away. My first though on seeing Marek start was that JB wanted experience in there against one of the toughest teams they'll face. But as you say, it's just the first game.
 

Trueblue25

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Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
Im disappointed with the coaching and find it hard to feel good about our immediate future. that being said this is as good and inconsequential a learning experience early in the year as we can ask for. We’ll see what juice JB has left.

deleted my past response, was reactionary and depressing
 

Melancer46

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Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
That's certainly the case this year and I don't know why anyone would have felt differently before the game. There's a difference between being okay with something long-term and understanding that this year's team just isn't very talented. This very well may be the new normal until Boeheim retires; we'll see about that part.

But in the very least, the game last night was simultaneously closer than I expected (for most of the game) and also pretty embarrassing even relative to my low expectations.
 

EastCoast2

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This is going to be Syracuse basketball for the rest of Jim Boeheim's tenure as head coach. Our recruiting is down, and the basketball product is down. It's been trending this way since the 2011-2012 team.

Think about it. We used to have Dion Waiters (#4 NBA pick) and MCW (NBA Rookie of the Year) RIDING THE BENCH. We had future 1st team all BE and ACC guys (Kris Joseph, CJ Fair) contemplating redshirts. We used to target kids that were being recruited by Duke, UK, KU, Arizona. Now we're battling it out with AAC bottom feeder UConn for seemingly every recruit.

This is how it will be until JB retires and we get a change at the top. Are you really surprised the offense looks like a pickup game at the Fayetteville YMCA? I know it was only 1 game, but how many step-back, hand in the face, 3-pointers did we attempt? 12?
 

OttoMets

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For those of us who didn't see any Italy games but watched 80 minutes of exhibitions last month, we weren't fooled with regard to Guerrier.

He could definitely become a contributor. But my observation that he's a less talented Paul Harris (in a game that rewards that skillset a lot less than it did in 2008) still stands.
 

Chip

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Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
Sort of agree, but it is a new normal to have to play them in the first game of the year.

And I get that the blue bloods often have to play a competitive first game of the year, so we shouldn't use it as an excuse.

I'm not very confident that things will improve much, and 34 points is just something to behold, but that is a tough draw in game 1 for all the new faces.
 

Orangejet

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Add Cuse hoops to the likes of UCLA, Indiana, Georgetown and St. John’s, once proud programs now in the suck mode.
 

orangecuse

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For those of us who didn't see any Italy games but watched 80 minutes of exhibitions last month, we weren't fooled with regard to Guerrier.

He could definitely become a contributor. But my observation that he's a less talented Paul Harris (in a game that rewards that skillset a lot less than it did in 2008) still stands.
But, but he wasn't ranked as high as he should've been because of being in Canada, at least that's what was being fed here. Just like those who continue to argue that our talent hasn't slipped the past 5 years or so, etc. The same posters that also want to argue that sanctions were categorically the number one reason why talent has faded vs. having a degree of contributing factor. Along with how, even though we whiffed on our top main center targets the past 2 recruiting cycles, we still landed our main/priority center in Ajak. And, how Sidibe, if he was only healthy would be the second coming..., etc., etc.

Good grief, last night was horrendous, as low as I've felt in a long time regarding hoops, a double whammy after Saturday's debacle against BC on the gridiron.

Furthermore, call me crazy, but I don't think this year's UVA team will be that good overall. Yeah they will play solid D, but they're really going to have a lot of difficulty scoring points...just as they did last night as they've very little offensive talent. I see them as a fringe type tournament team.
 

Sherman20

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I think one of the reasons why so many here are PO'd is that we were fooled. And nobody likes to be fooled. I mean, we thought that QG was the second coming of Oshea, maybe even better. The Italy trip gave glimpses of it. The exhibition games should have given a clue that he is a NRFPT(not ready for primr time) player but we though JB was just giving the other forwards playing time. Turns out he not only didn't start but played just 13 minutes and had zeroes across the sheet. We though that maybe Carey had matured to settle down or if he hadn't, Goodine would be a more than capable sub. Nope. The "pg's" played just 26 minutes, had just 2 pts and 1 assist. The best pg was the kid that many thought might be NRFPT and at best a 2g, Girard, was the better of the group. Again maybe glimpsed that during the exhibition games. Now in reverse, we thought Braswell was ready. The exhibition showed a capable, smooth player who could shoot, rebound, and run the floor. We worried were he would get his minutes and the answer was he didn't not even on a night when nobody was effective. Italy gave hopes a a resurgence of the center position. Sid offered hope of that with Edwards a capable backup. There were hopes that Marek could get just a few minutes there even just to ease the jam at forward. Nope, didn't happen with the centers getting just 27 minutes with 4 pts and 3 rbs. Won't get into what the gave up to opposing big men. And speaking of Marek, we wondered where he would get his minutes. Shouldn't have, he played 40. About the minutes played, we thought 10 would play. Wrong only 9. At least an eight man rotation. Wrong, 7 got 10+ minutes. The 6 exhibition games showed up tempo. Nope. Of course Virginia was a major factor for all of this. The defending NC, tough defending, slow pace team and all.

So basically we were fooled. They mostly were NRFPT. And that angers many/most. Personally, I wasn't. Just disappointed. Do I dare hope that the next 4 games will get them ready. At least to a point were we don't get fooled again. So if over these next few games, even if they are blowouts, perhaps we should tone down the high expectations so we don't get fooled again.
I’m sorry, JB clings for dear life to this ideology of a tight rotation. While that makes sense many years when there’s a real talent or experience differential, it’s so tired and lame when you have a roster like this year’s in terms of talent and experience and when you need to play faster and press full court to win. Every team is different and you have to adjust your strategies to win with different personnel. But JB just clings to these philosophies year after year. Look, I get not playing 10 or 12 guys like Leonard Hamilton, who ends up sitting his best players (like Kabengele last year) for key stretches when they should be in the game. But every team is different and there’s undoubtedly a benefit to giving guys rest or sitting them for a bit when they’re not producing—and getting guys in who can give you a spark. We should have seen some Braswell last night. Marek wasn’t hitting anything and frankly he was rushing his shots and not taking his time to find the open man. I hope we can chalk this up to an inexperienced team (that will improve) playing a defensive juggernaut. But I still hate JB’s lame offensive playbook, such as it is. A poster pointed out last season that we’re still running the same tired plays we ran 10 years ago—when we even bother to run anything.
 

SBU72

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I don't discount much of what is replied, just the vehemence. Liked it was said, we were feed a feeling of changed and it didn't happen and that is a cause of the anguish.
 

Col. Bleep

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Is that our "new normal?" When Virginia comes to town we're comfortable getting blown out year after year after year by them because they play great defense? Have we just accepted that they're a heavyweight and we're a middleweight?
That's a good point.
Mindset and attitude matter.
A LOT!

It appears this change roughly coincided with the NCAA sanctions and entry to the ACC.
When the Orange were in the old BE and came up against Duke or UNC...the attitude was "Who cares? Let's show them who we are!" Regardless of how good our team was that particular year.

Now we treat them as if they're a big deal...complete with those "Beat Duke" shirts and all the hullabaloo about the Duke game...as if they're more than just another good team (which the Orange played almost every night in the BE).
The way we treat the Duke game in particular is really sad.

Right now...the truth is the SU program is somewhat lost.
We're not a force to be reckoned with.
UVA, Duke, UNC and maybe others are.

How do we turn that around?
If I had that answer, I'd be the coach.
But permit me to suggest that we go back to thinking of ourselves as big timers.
And maybe try an offense that stops relying so much on uncreative people trying to create.

And, oh yeah...I (still) LOOOAAAAATHE G-Town!

Go Orange!
 

FRANKIEFAN

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He can change his game and contribute. The guys he will fight for minutes are all paper thin skinny.

No lottery pick garbage talk at least.

We're gonna need an extra 2 guard on the floor at all times not having a PG. Which means less minutes for guys like QG. If he doesn't get it together quickly he might be a DNP some conference games.
 

SBU72

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Then all the posts after the exhibition games about Braswell, Girard, QG, and Goodine and how they were going make a difference, or how Sid was going to get the job done, never happened? Nobody was suppose to get caught up in the hype? Now you're fooling yourself.
 

bevosu

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Basketball-football. Every summer there are a reasonable percentage of posters who live on optimism. Most of the pre-season posts are optimistic. The number of years that the optimism matched the actual in season performance of the team have been diminishing over the past couple of decades in football, and the past 6-7 years in basketball.

But the pre-season optimism never ends.

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SBU72

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Basketball-football. Every summer there are a reasonable percentage of posters who live on optimism. Most of the pre-season posts are optimistic. The number of years that the optimism matched the actual in season performance of the team have been diminishing over the past couple of decades in football, and the past 6-7 years in basketball.

But the pre-season optimism never ends.

View attachment 172603
Ain't that the way it's suppose to be!? :) Or why else read this forum or watch the games? Only when the season begins a the Debbie Downers come out (in droves) does it get depressing.
 

Willy75

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Ain't that the way it's suppose to be!? :) Or why else read this forum or watch the games? Only when the season begins a the Debbie Downers come out (in droves) does it get depressing.
I won't accept that the sky is falling yet. Btw nobody held UVa under 50 last year.
 

two3zone

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I won't accept that the sky is falling yet. Btw nobody held UVa under 50 last year.
Different VA offense. Btw, who scored less than 35 against VA last season?
 

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