Who can keep up? | Syracusefan.com

Who can keep up?

TheCusian

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I think that a lot of the public facing comments from Babers about patience are about setting the public expectations pretty low. This is a smart approach. (Contrast that with loud pronouncements from McF*&kit). Addelson from ESPN was on Axe's show yesterday and basically admitted to putting Syracuse low in the rankings because Dino doesn't spend a lot of time talking about how good his players or system will be. She said she and her colleagues put us that low because they have tons of unanswered questions and can't get him to talk about his team. Pair this with Babers request to let him have time with his team, the lack of public events, and lack of practice availability (just 1o min of practice every other day) - and it's clear Babers wants an incubation period. Talk is cheap and he's not selling any.

Unfortunately this all leaves us with very little info going into Colgate in two weeks. I personally think that he was pleasantly surprised with the young pieces on the team on offense especially. His time at BG and Eastern Illinois proved that he can take the existing talent and maximize it in year one. As he's repeatedly said, year two is where it really clicks - but I think we've been so bad on O, that 75% of Dino-ball is better than any year in the past 10 by a pretty large measure (with a hat tip to Nassib's senior year).

We'll be fast, better, and we'll put up a lot of points. I also think that the youth matures, in-game coaching improves, and that S&C is better.

I've been thinking that the key to figuring out the W/L this year is "Who can keep up?" ... If Dino thinks he can score every time we have the ball faster than his opponents, who do you look at and think "Um, that's going to be dicey" ..

1. at Clemson* (Ranked #10 in O S&P+ with a lot of returning talent at QB/RB/WR). They may be the best offensive team in the country.
2. ND* at MetLife (Ranked #8 in O S&P+ with the good kind of QB competition, 3 guys who can all sling it). They do lose a few pieces, but will be very good on offense.
3. FSU* (Ranked #21 in O S&P+ with a true freshman QB and a Sr who is injured and will be back by our game). They have the best RB in CFB in Cook. They can play keep away and run clock and I don't think we'll have an answer. This is about O, but their secondary is going to be lights out. Game is in the Dome. Should be interesting.

-- Decent drop-off, IMO

4. Louisville (Ranked #49 in O S&P+ with good WR talent and a rising QB who can run for days). I think the key here is "Can Jackson read the Tampa 2 and show discipline passing the ball from the pocket on the road?" This is where we'll need to score a lot to put the pressure on their QB. I see a shoot-out in a winnable game.
5. at PITT (Ranked #38 in O S&P+ with a returning if unspectacular QB in Peterman.) This is FSU light. If we can score quickly, it hurts the strength of their offense, RB. I'm not sold on the PITT WRs.
6. USF (Ranked #50 in O S&P+ with a good core returning from the team that we had a tough time with last year). This is Louisville light. They have an athletic, improving QB in Flowers and athletes at WR. I think it will boil down to how patient Flowers is on the road vs the Tampa 2.
7. VT (Ranked #72 in O S&P+ with QB question marks, but good overall talent). This offense is very hard to read. I think Fuentes elevates them - but how much in year one? No idea.

-- Another decent drop-off, IMO

8. NCst (Ranked #32 in O S&P+ with a new QB and a new OC). They play so many cupcakes their numbers are junked even in the advanced stats world. They will be okay on O. But they have too many question marks. And the game is in the Dome. And our players don't like them.
9. at Wake Forest (Ranked #108 in O S&P+ with a mediocre QB and limited weapons). The ever improving, always on the rise Wake team returns a bevy of mediocre players and were bad last year. But they did beat BC in the "Great Battle of the Kickers" so there's that.
10. at BC (Ranked #124 in O S&P+ with a decent grad transfer QB and a new mediocre OC). Towles will help them be less awful. Not sure about their retread VT OC. Better means getting out of the 100's. I do like their RB Hillman. But it won't be enough.
11. at UCONN (Ranked #114 in O S&P+ with a kind of bad QB returning). This will be like battling our meat head past. I expect their D to hold us for a bit, but for them to suck on O. But unlike BC, they don't have a QB.
 
The good thing is that, using Baber's timeline, we should be 50% better by the time we hit Clemson and FSU. They're the 9th and 11th games. Clemson looks impossible but FSU is in the dome and has recently had imploding stars and a lot of ego.
 
LAOrange said:
The good thing is that, using Baber's timeline, we should be 50% better by the time we hit Clemson and FSU. They're the 9th and 11th games. Clemson looks impossible but FSU is in the dome and has recently had imploding stars and a lot of ego.

I think to get FSU we're going to need them to be falling apart at QB - and hope we're really clicking. And even then...
 
I think we will really struggle against strong pass oriented teams - I just don't see our defensive secondary being able to keep up. We have a huge glaring void at one CB position and Winfield on the other side - who I'm high on but is still learning the position. If Whitner and Cordy are the starting safeties, their height isn't going to prevent teams from throwing over the top. I just get visions of getting burned by speedsters with deep throws and struggling with large, physical receivers against teams like that. I also fully expect our offense to be somewhat disjointed as the players learn the system so I would imagine we'll have games where everything clicks and games where we really struggle.

I would be floored if we beat any of the first 4 teams on that list. Beyond that, I think we beat Colgate, UCONN, BC and Wake, and then split with Pitt, USF, V Tech and Nc State to get to 6-6.
 
tep624 said:
I think we will really struggle against strong pass oriented teams - I just don't see our defensive secondary being able to keep up. We have a huge glaring void at one CB position and Winfield on the other side - who I'm high on but is still learning the position. If Whitner and Cordy are the starting safeties, their height isn't going to prevent teams from throwing over the top. I just get visions of getting burned by speedsters with deep throws and struggling with large, physical receivers against teams like that. I also fully expect our offense to be somewhat disjointed as the players learn the system so I would imagine we'll have games where everything clicks and games where we really struggle. I would be floored if we beat any of the first 4 teams on that list. Beyond that, I think we beat Colgate, UCONN, BC and Wake, and then split with Pitt, USF, V Tech and Nc State to get to 6-6.

That's where some luck will be needed. A QB goes down or a late game INT to a good passing team.

I see 6-6 too.
 
I think we will really struggle against strong pass oriented teams - I just don't see our defensive secondary being able to keep up. We have a huge glaring void at one CB position and Winfield on the other side - who I'm high on but is still learning the position. If Whitner and Cordy are the starting safeties, their height isn't going to prevent teams from throwing over the top. I just get visions of getting burned by speedsters with deep throws and struggling with large, physical receivers against teams like that. I also fully expect our offense to be somewhat disjointed as the players learn the system so I would imagine we'll have games where everything clicks and games where we really struggle.

I would be floored if we beat any of the first 4 teams on that list. Beyond that, I think we beat Colgate, UCONN, BC and Wake, and then split with Pitt, USF, V Tech and Nc State to get to 6-6.
The Tampa-2 is designed to do exactly the opposite of what you think will happen. Deep passes get taken away by the safeties left over the top. The MLB is going to be dropping into coverage in the middle of the field often as well. What this means is that you usually only have 6/7 in the box. Without a top notch DL we will struggle against the run and have trouble generating pressure. You are also going to get alot of OLB on the RB/TE coming out of the backfield for quick hitters and WRs on bubble screens. The defense is designed to keep everything in front, not to generate chaos the way Shafer/Bullogh's D did. Remember when ND marched up and down the field on little hitch passes and screens? Get used to seeing alot more of it IMO. The difference here is that Shafer ran a slugfest whereby they were pretty much trying to play a possession/ball control game on offense but when the talent/execution on the other side was better, we ended up with fewer possessions and the ones we did have typically got grinded to a halt due to some dumbass penalty. Baber's philosophy is ok play ball control and limit your possessions, we are going to maximize ours so try to keep up.
 
The Tampa-2 is designed to do exactly the opposite of what you think will happen. Deep passes get taken away by the safeties left over the top. The MLB is going to be dropping into coverage in the middle of the field often as well. What this means is that you usually only have 6/7 in the box. Without a top notch DL we will struggle against the run and have trouble generating pressure. You are also going to get alot of OLB on the RB/TE coming out of the backfield for quick hitters and WRs on bubble screens. The defense is designed to keep everything in front, not to generate chaos the way Shafer/Bullogh's D did. Remember when ND marched up and down the field on little hitch passes and screens? Get used to seeing alot more of it IMO. The difference here is that Shafer ran a slugfest whereby they were pretty much trying to play a possession/ball control game on offense but when the talent/execution on the other side was better, we ended up with fewer possessions and the ones we did have typically got grinded to a halt due to some dumbass penalty. Baber's philosophy is ok play ball control and limit your possessions, we are going to maximize ours so try to keep up.

I understand the scheme, I'm concerned that we don't have the personnel in our current secondary pool to make the scheme successful. Our strength is our defensive front 7. Our safety pool as it is, at least the guys slated to be on the 2 deep, weren't recruited for this system. We don't have a 6'2/6'3 safety with some speed that is going to intimidate a fast, large receiver that just blew by our weaker CB (whomever is opposite Winfield). This is where Moore and Pierre not qualifying have really hurt us for this season. Both of them were prototypical size/speed for the defensive backfield in this system.
 
I still can't get the Nova game outta my head... Especially being there live... Omg. Horrendous.

Basically, what I'm saying is, you must get off to a quick start. That means a fast paced offence right from the get go... May not be smooth but get it rolling right away.
 
Last edited:
I still can't get the Nova game outta my head... Especially being their live... Omg. Horrendous.

Basically, what I'm saying is, you must get off to a quick start. That means a fast paced offence right from the get go... May not be smooth but get it rolling right away.

"Syracuse is the new fast". Show us...
 
I think that a lot of the public facing comments from Babers about patience are about setting the public expectations pretty low. This is a smart approach. (Contrast that with loud pronouncements from McF*&kit). Addelson from ESPN was on Axe's show yesterday and basically admitted to putting Syracuse low in the rankings because Dino doesn't spend a lot of time talking about how good his players or system will be. She said she and her colleagues put us that low because they have tons of unanswered questions and can't get him to talk about his team. Pair this with Babers request to let him have time with his team, the lack of public events, and lack of practice availability (just 1o min of practice every other day) - and it's clear Babers wants an incubation period. Talk is cheap and he's not selling any.

Unfortunately this all leaves us with very little info going into Colgate in two weeks. I personally think that he was pleasantly surprised with the young pieces on the team on offense especially. His time at BG and Eastern Illinois proved that he can take the existing talent and maximize it in year one. As he's repeatedly said, year two is where it really clicks - but I think we've been so bad on O, that 75% of Dino-ball is better than any year in the past 10 by a pretty large measure (with a hat tip to Nassib's senior year).

We'll be fast, better, and we'll put up a lot of points. I also think that the youth matures, in-game coaching improves, and that S&C is better.

I've been thinking that the key to figuring out the W/L this year is "Who can keep up?" ... If Dino thinks he can score every time we have the ball faster than his opponents, who do you look at and think "Um, that's going to be dicey" ..

1. at Clemson* (Ranked #10 in O S&P+ with a lot of returning talent at QB/RB/WR). They may be the best offensive team in the country.
2. ND* at MetLife (Ranked #8 in O S&P+ with the good kind of QB competition, 3 guys who can all sling it). They do lose a few pieces, but will be very good on offense.
3. FSU* (Ranked #21 in O S&P+ with a true freshman QB and a Sr who is injured and will be back by our game). They have the best RB in CFB in Cook. They can play keep away and run clock and I don't think we'll have an answer. This is about O, but their secondary is going to be lights out. Game is in the Dome. Should be interesting.

-- Decent drop-off, IMO

4. Louisville (Ranked #49 in O S&P+ with good WR talent and a rising QB who can run for days). I think the key here is "Can Jackson read the Tampa 2 and show discipline passing the ball from the pocket on the road?" This is where we'll need to score a lot to put the pressure on their QB. I see a shoot-out in a winnable game.
5. at PITT (Ranked #38 in O S&P+ with a returning if unspectacular QB in Peterman.) This is FSU light. If we can score quickly, it hurts the strength of their offense, RB. I'm not sold on the PITT WRs.
6. USF (Ranked #50 in O S&P+ with a good core returning from the team that we had a tough time with last year). This is Louisville light. They have an athletic, improving QB in Flowers and athletes at WR. I think it will boil down to how patient Flowers is on the road vs the Tampa 2.
7. VT (Ranked #72 in O S&P+ with QB question marks, but good overall talent). This offense is very hard to read. I think Fuentes elevates them - but how much in year one? No idea.

-- Another decent drop-off, IMO

8. NCst (Ranked #32 in O S&P+ with a new QB and a new OC). They play so many cupcakes their numbers are junked even in the advanced stats world. They will be okay on O. But they have too many question marks. And the game is in the Dome. And our players don't like them.
9. at Wake Forest (Ranked #108 in O S&P+ with a mediocre QB and limited weapons). The ever improving, always on the rise Wake team returns a bevy of mediocre players and were bad last year. But they did beat BC in the "Great Battle of the Kickers" so there's that.
10. at BC (Ranked #124 in O S&P+ with a decent grad transfer QB and a new mediocre OC). Towles will help them be less awful. Not sure about their retread VT OC. Better means getting out of the 100's. I do like their RB Hillman. But it won't be enough.
11. at UCONN (Ranked #114 in O S&P+ with a kind of bad QB returning). This will be like battling our meat head past. I expect their D to hold us for a bit, but for them to suck on O. But unlike BC, they don't have a QB.

I don't want to nitpick too much, you did an excellent job, I would just switch Fsu and Nd.
 
Briancuse said:
I don't want to nitpick too much, you did an excellent job, I would just switch Fsu and Nd.

Fair enough. I just think when they play in the dome they've lacked juice - and I'm not sure about QB. But it's pretty tight. Both will be good.
 
orangenauburn said:
That's a piss poor reason for putting us last Look at his track record with his staff Look at what the returning players did Put two and two together We are better than BC and Wake, most likely NC State Poor excuse AA

Yeah, she was funny about it. Defensive a bit.

I don't think it's that tough to extrapolate what we have and what Dino has done to agree that we're better than Wake and BC.

Doesn't matter. We'll just have to show her ;).
 
I think that a lot of the public facing comments from Babers about patience are about setting the public expectations pretty low. This is a smart approach. (Contrast that with loud pronouncements from McF*&kit). Addelson from ESPN was on Axe's show yesterday and basically admitted to putting Syracuse low in the rankings because Dino doesn't spend a lot of time talking about how good his players or system will be. She said she and her colleagues put us that low because they have tons of unanswered questions and can't get him to talk about his team. Pair this with Babers request to let him have time with his team, the lack of public events, and lack of practice availability (just 1o min of practice every other day) - and it's clear Babers wants an incubation period. Talk is cheap and he's not selling any.

Unfortunately this all leaves us with very little info going into Colgate in two weeks. I personally think that he was pleasantly surprised with the young pieces on the team on offense especially. His time at BG and Eastern Illinois proved that he can take the existing talent and maximize it in year one. As he's repeatedly said, year two is where it really clicks - but I think we've been so bad on O, that 75% of Dino-ball is better than any year in the past 10 by a pretty large measure (with a hat tip to Nassib's senior year).

We'll be fast, better, and we'll put up a lot of points. I also think that the youth matures, in-game coaching improves, and that S&C is better.

I've been thinking that the key to figuring out the W/L this year is "Who can keep up?" ... If Dino thinks he can score every time we have the ball faster than his opponents, who do you look at and think "Um, that's going to be dicey" ..

1. at Clemson* (Ranked #10 in O S&P+ with a lot of returning talent at QB/RB/WR). They may be the best offensive team in the country.
2. ND* at MetLife (Ranked #8 in O S&P+ with the good kind of QB competition, 3 guys who can all sling it). They do lose a few pieces, but will be very good on offense.
3. FSU* (Ranked #21 in O S&P+ with a true freshman QB and a Sr who is injured and will be back by our game). They have the best RB in CFB in Cook. They can play keep away and run clock and I don't think we'll have an answer. This is about O, but their secondary is going to be lights out. Game is in the Dome. Should be interesting.

-- Decent drop-off, IMO

4. Louisville (Ranked #49 in O S&P+ with good WR talent and a rising QB who can run for days). I think the key here is "Can Jackson read the Tampa 2 and show discipline passing the ball from the pocket on the road?" This is where we'll need to score a lot to put the pressure on their QB. I see a shoot-out in a winnable game.
5. at PITT (Ranked #38 in O S&P+ with a returning if unspectacular QB in Peterman.) This is FSU light. If we can score quickly, it hurts the strength of their offense, RB. I'm not sold on the PITT WRs.
6. USF (Ranked #50 in O S&P+ with a good core returning from the team that we had a tough time with last year). This is Louisville light. They have an athletic, improving QB in Flowers and athletes at WR. I think it will boil down to how patient Flowers is on the road vs the Tampa 2.
7. VT (Ranked #72 in O S&P+ with QB question marks, but good overall talent). This offense is very hard to read. I think Fuentes elevates them - but how much in year one? No idea.

-- Another decent drop-off, IMO

8. NCst (Ranked #32 in O S&P+ with a new QB and a new OC). They play so many cupcakes their numbers are junked even in the advanced stats world. They will be okay on O. But they have too many question marks. And the game is in the Dome. And our players don't like them.
9. at Wake Forest (Ranked #108 in O S&P+ with a mediocre QB and limited weapons). The ever improving, always on the rise Wake team returns a bevy of mediocre players and were bad last year. But they did beat BC in the "Great Battle of the Kickers" so there's that.
10. at BC (Ranked #124 in O S&P+ with a decent grad transfer QB and a new mediocre OC). Towles will help them be less awful. Not sure about their retread VT OC. Better means getting out of the 100's. I do like their RB Hillman. But it won't be enough.
11. at UCONN (Ranked #114 in O S&P+ with a kind of bad QB returning). This will be like battling our meat head past. I expect their D to hold us for a bit, but for them to suck on O. But unlike BC, they don't have a QB.
well written but in the big games, the question will be who can we keep up with?in the big games we need to VERY RESPECTABLE IN THOSE GAMES. we need to stay healthy particularly on defense, qb and strickland. i finally have a coach that acts the part(although marrone did), sequesters his team,limits access to coaches and players, and is focused on development and cohesion. i also like the way he deals with the press. got a little jim b in him but slightly more polite.
 
The OP says fans have "very little info heading into Colgate" -- because Dino does not talk about the team, or individual players. That true to a degree, but we have a lot of starters back on both sides of the ball, and we have a lot of video (if you want to take the time) showing Babers' schemes at BGSU.

Did we know a lot about the offensive schemes of McDonald or Lester in pre-season? Just seems normal that we have to wait at least until game 2 to get a good picture.
 
SoBristol said:
The OP says fans have "very little info heading into Colgate" -- because Dino does not talk about the team, or individual players. That true to a degree, but we have a lot of starters back on both sides of the ball, and we have a lot of video (if you want to take the time) showing Babers' schemes at BGSU. Did we know a lot about the offensive schemes of McDonald or Lester in pre-season? Just seems normal that we have to wait at least until game 2 to get a good picture.

True. But at least during the two scrimmages we'd have a sense of just how good some of the players were.

It's not a huge deal - just want to watch the team play.
 
tipphill said:
well written but in the big games, the question will be who can we keep up with?in the big games we need to VERY RESPECTABLE IN THOSE GAMES. we need to stay healthy particularly on defense, qb and strickland. i finally have a coach that acts the part(although marrone did), sequesters his team,limits access to coaches and players, and is focused on development and cohesion. i also like the way he deals with the press. got a little jim b in him but slightly more polite.

We'll see. I think those top teams will stop our offense more, mainly due to defensive talent being better than our offensive talent. And those top 3 have very good defenses to compliment their O, obviously. But BG still scored 30+ on an SEC team and put some pressure on their O to not coast.
 
Fair enough. I just think when they play in the dome they've lacked juice - and I'm not sure about QB. But it's pretty tight. Both will be good.

I don't like playing Fsu so late, by then they could have their qb situation figured out.
 
Babers first year..

Eastern Illinois
2011- coach Bob Spoo -----2-9
2012- coach Dino Baber -----7-5

Bowling Green
2013- coach Dave Clawson-----10-3
2014-coach Dino Babers-----8-6

Going by the numbers, Dino didn't inherit a train wreck at Bowling Green.
 
bevosu said:
Babers first year.. Eastern Illinois 2011- coach Bob Spoo -----2-9 2012- coach Dino Baber -----7-5 Bowling Green 2013- coach Dave Clawson-----10-3 2014-coach Dino Babers-----8-6 Going by the numbers, Dino didn't inherit a train wreck at Bowling Green.

That 2014 BG team lost their starting QB in game 1 and had to switch DC's after the season. And still won the division, beat Indiana, and played in the conference championship. Along with it being year one in a new system.
 
I don't like playing Fsu so late, by then they could have their qb situation figured out.
but maybe they won't have our QB figured out. Well one can hope.

And it might just might be me but I get this hope every year before the first football game only to have it dashed a few, short weeks in. I don't think that is going to happen this year. Maybe because I stabbed a voodoo doll a few times or maybe, just maybe...I feel the tide will soon be turning
 
That 2014 BG team lost their starting QB in game 1 and had to switch DC's after the season. And still won the division, beat Indiana, and played in the conference championship. Along with it being year one in a new system.

Just trying to temper the suggestion that Dino turned both programs around in his first year. Posters have indicated that he did.

Not belittling his accomplishments.
 

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