Will the media wake up now that St. Louis has lost 3 in a row with Wichita State | Syracusefan.com

Will the media wake up now that St. Louis has lost 3 in a row with Wichita State

Alsacs

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Remember the saying if a tree falls down and no one is around does the the tree make any sound?

If Wichita State goes undefeated and has 0 wins over top 25 teams does that qualify your team to be a 1 seed.

I mean my goodness this team has 1 win over an NCAA Tournament team and now its losing more luster as St. Louis has lost to Duquesne, VCU, and Dayton in a row and 2 of them have been at home. I would honestly take 2 seed in Wichita State's region for Syracuse right now if I was guaranteed that spot.
 

NineOneSeven

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If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. I cannot see why this is so difficult.

Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams.

Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late.
 

Alsacs

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If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. I cannot see why this is so difficult.

Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams.

Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late.
Last year has nothing to do with this year that crap doesn't apply for any team. The committee has always said your seed/spot in the NCAA tournament depends on whom you have beaten and whom you have played. Just because Wichita State is undefeated doesn't make them a top 4 team in America.

I have broken down repeatedly that 10 of their 31 wins against RPI top 100 teams, and 2 of those 10 are against RPI top 50 teams. 12 of their 31 wins are against sub-RPI 150 wins. Their schedule should DQ them from being a 1 seed, I don't care if they are good and can win the NC. If Wichita State gets a 1 seed then the committee will be saying beating 1 NCAA tournament team the entire season and 0 top 25 teams and going undefeated makes you a 1 seed.
 

KaiserUEO

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If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. I cannot see why this is so difficult.

Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams.

Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late.
its very difficult to see.

do you put your JV team in the states just because they went undefeated and the varsity had a tough go??

screw them, theyre a 4.

if theyre a 1, i expect the 16 to beat them.
 

cuseincincy

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its very difficult to see.

do you put your JV team in the states just because they went undefeated and the varsity had a tough go??

screw them, theyre a 4.

if theyre a 1, i expect the 16 to beat them.
One thing I like about the NCAA selection committee is they rarely bring past season bias into their equation. I think making the FF last year is irrelevant. I think St Joe's getting a #1 a few years ago is irrelevant. Will they get a 1? I expect them to but they shouldn't.
 

cusefan88

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Just want to add that it's hard for Wichita State to get marquee non-conf games because the big boys don't want to lose to a non-name team like WSU. All the things mentioned above are true but lots of teams were too scared to schedule them.

Also, how often do we see teams going undefeated in any conference. Can't easily wipe away WSU season because of their SOS. UNLV '91 and St Joes 04 the only other teams since 1980 to be undefeated in the regular season. It's a great accomplishment.
 

NineOneSeven

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I'm not saying it is right or wrong, I am saying that if they go undefeated it is going to happen.

And my point of bringing up last year is not to justify their seeding, but to prove the team is capable of winning against good teams, even though it wasn't shown in their schedule this year.
 

Marsh01

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I could see this team falling flat on their face and losing in the 8/9 game or I could see them making a regional final. I dont think they are talented enough to make a FF
 

Alsacs

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Just want to add that it's hard for Wichita State to get marquee non-conf games because the big boys don't want to lose to a non-name team like WSU. All the things mentioned above are true but lots of teams were too scared to schedule them.

Also, how often do we see teams going undefeated in any conference. Can't easily wipe away WSU season because of their SOS. UNLV '91 and St Joes 04 the only other teams since 1980 to be undefeated in the regular season. It's a great accomplishment.
Its hard for them to get blue bloods on campus, but they could have played Kansas in Kansas City like New Mexico did, they could have played in the Jimmy V Classic like Pitt, Cincy, Florida, Memphis did, they could have played Duke at MSG like UCLA did, they could have played Gonzaga in Seattle and then hosted them in KC like K-State has done, Wichita State isn't going to get elite home/homes after 1 run they knew Creighton was leaving their conference they should have scheduled better and should have taken a short term 2 for 1 or 1 time guarantee game instead of their terrible schedule. They have 1 win over an NCAA tournament team St. Louis and know that win is becoming less and less impressive and yet they are talked about as a 1 seed when their schedule is a joke.
 

OttoinGrotto

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If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. I cannot see why this is so difficult.

Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams.

Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late.
If that's the case being made for Wichita State, Syracuse should be an outright #1 for our Final Four last season, and the fact that had a few 50/50 whistles gone our way, we would have been in the championship.
 

Alsacs

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Also go look at St. Joe's 2004 non-conference schedule
Gonzaga-MSG
Boston College
California
Villanova
they played NCAA teams in the non-conference and the A-10 was a 4 bid conference that year with Xavier, Dayton, Temple.
 

NineOneSeven

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If that's the case being made for Wichita State, Syracuse should be an outright #1 for our Final Four last season, and the fact that had a few 50/50 whistles gone our way, we would have been in the championship.

*facepalm*

1. I am saying that they are going to be a 1 if they go undefeated, I am not saying it should or shouldn't happen.
2. Me bringing up last year is not to justify their seeding, it is to show the team is capable of winning against good teams. People on here have made assertations that Wich St is not good. If last year didn't happen, they could have a case, given that their competition level is low it could be hard to tell. But last year did occur, and they made the final four.

This is exactly why people are still optimistic about this year. We looked god awful at the end of last season and still pulled out a FF.
 

OttoinGrotto

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2. Me bringing up last year is not to justify their seeding, it is to show the team is capable of winning against good teams. People on here have made assertations that Wich St is not good. If last year didn't happen, they could have a case, given that their competition level is low it could be hard to tell. But last year did occur, and they made the final four.
Doesn't matter. Can't matter for seeding. Just an enormous slippery slope.
 

rrlbees

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Alsacs said:
Its hard for them to get blue bloods on campus, but they could have played Kansas in Kansas City like New Mexico did, they could have played in the Jimmy V Classic like Pitt, Cincy, Florida, Memphis did, they could have played Duke at MSG like UCLA did, they could have played Gonzaga in Seattle and then hosted them in KC like K-State has done, Wichita State isn't going to get elite home/homes after 1 run they knew Creighton was leaving their conference they should have scheduled better and should have taken a short term 2 for 1 or 1 time guarantee game instead of their terrible schedule. They have 1 win over an NCAA tournament team St. Louis and know that win is becoming less and less impressive and yet they are talked about as a 1 seed when their schedule is a joke.

Did they get invited to the Jimmy V? Did the other teams you propose they play in other cities want to play them?
 

Alsacs

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*facepalm*

1. I am saying that they are going to be a 1 if they go undefeated, I am not saying it should or shouldn't happen.
2. Me bringing up last year is not to justify their seeding, it is to show the team is capable of winning against good teams. People on here have made assertations that Wich St is not good. If last year didn't happen, they could have a case, given that their competition level is low it could be hard to tell. But last year did occur, and they made the final four.

This is exactly why people are still optimistic about this year. We looked god awful at the end of last season and still pulled out a FF.
I haven't said they aren't good I just think their resume makes them completely unworthy of a 1 seed. I actually agree with Kaiser their resume oozes 4 seed, but if committee wanted to bump them up to a 3 seed for going undefeated then I wouldn't see a problem with that. However, for them to be given a 1 seed with only 1 win over an NCAA tournament team. 10 of their 31 wins against top 100 teams and 13 of their 31 games against sub-150 teams would be a joke and bad precedent.
 

Alsacs

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Did they get invited to the Jimmy V? Did the other teams you propose they play in other cities want to play them?
ESPN sends feelers out to teams to see who is interested in playing i the Jimmy V. Wichita State coming off a Final Four interested ESPN, but I don't know why they didn't play. Bill Self at Kansas said he wouldn't play Wichita State home/home, but would have played them in the Jayhawks annual Kansas City game, and Marshall declined wanting a 1-1-1 deal.

Marshall did his team a disservice in how he scheduled his non-conference schedule. Marshall could have played anybody in a 1 game road series, but he didn't. Gonzaga took several years to get the respect Marshall wanted after 1 year.
 

OttoinGrotto

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I'M NOT STATING THIS TO JUSTIFY THEIR SEEDING.
If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. I cannot see why this is so difficult.

Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams.

Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late.
Let's break this down, because even though you're saying you're not, it definitely read that you were.

1. If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. (This is your statement)

2. Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams. (This is your support for them being a one, coupled with their undefeated record)

3. Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late. (Your support for why we should believe that they can beat Top 25 teams, even though they didn't play any, which belief justifies their number seed, is based on the team's achievements last season)

So...:noidea:
 

rrlbees

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ESPN sends feelers out to teams to see who is interested in playing i the Jimmy V. Wichita State coming off a Final Four interested ESPN, but I don't know why they didn't play. Bill Self at Kansas said he wouldn't play Wichita State home/home, but would have played them in the Jayhawks annual Kansas City game, and Marshall declined wanting a 1-1-1 deal.

Marshall did his team a disservice in how he scheduled his non-conference schedule. Marshall could have played anybody in a 1 game road series, but he didn't. Gonzaga took several years to get the respect Marshall wanted after 1 year.

So you have a source at ESPN that knows who had interest in the Jimmy V and how they selected teams ?
 

NineOneSeven

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Let's break this down, because even though you're saying you're not, it definitely read that you were.

1. If Wich St doesn't lose, they will be a one. (This is your statement)

2. Just because they haven't played a top 25 team, doesn't mean they cannot beat top 25 teams. (This is your support for them being a one, coupled with their undefeated record)

3. Perhaps you'd have more credibility if they didn't go to the FF last year... but they did. And had a legit shot of knocking off the eventual champions if a few plays went their way late. (Your support for why we should believe that they can beat Top 25 teams, even though they didn't play any, which belief justifies their number seed, is based on the team's achievements last season)

So...:noidea:

Wrong, I just didn't do a good job of separating the two out. Points 2 and 3 are not to justify their seeding, they are in response to the implication that Wich St isn't a good team. Not necessarily relevant in this thread perhaps, but directed towards those who have implied they aren't.

Don't you have potatoes to boil?
 

OttoinGrotto

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Alsacs

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So you have a source at ESPN that knows who had interest in the Jimmy V and how they selected teams ?
ESPN doesn't just pick name brands for the Jimmy V Classic it picks teams expected to be good, and are willing to give up a home game as all the revenue produced at the Jimmy V Classic goes directly to the V foundation. Wichita State coming off a Final Four season and was predicted to be top 25 this year interested ESPN. ESPN doesn't always pick power conference teams in Jimmy V Classic. Butler in 2011 was in the Jimmy V Classic, Temple, St. Joe's, Seton Hall, Princeton have all played in the Jimmy V Classic either since its been at MSG or when it was at the Meadowlands.

Wichita State didn't do everything it could to play a top notch non-conference schedule I don't get why you are taking the devil's advocate position here.
 

rrlbees

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ESPN doesn't just pick name brands for the Jimmy V Classic it picks teams expected to be good, and are willing to give up a home game as all the revenue produced at the Jimmy V Classic goes directly to the V foundation. Wichita State coming off a Final Four season and was predicted to be top 25 this year interested ESPN. ESPN doesn't always pick power conference teams in Jimmy V Classic. Butler in 2011 was in the Jimmy V Classic, Temple, St. Joe's, Seton Hall, Princeton have all played in the Jimmy V Classic either since its been at MSG or when it was at the Meadowlands.

Wichita State didn't do everything it could to play a top notch non-conference schedule I don't get why you are taking the devil's advocate position here.

I'm still not following. Are you talking facts because you have a source at ESPN or just assuming things?
 

SoBeCuse

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In regards to St. Louis; Dayton is very good. Should be a Tourney team. That league is very good. I would not be surprised at all to see an A10 team make it to Dallas. Boeheim said back at Maui that Dayton was the one team he didn't want SU to play.
 

Alsacs

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I'm still not following. Are you talking facts because you have a source at ESPN or just assuming things?
I have friends who work at ESPN, but I am not going to say I have the ear of the person who makes the final decisions. I will say that Wichita State was on the list of teams that interested ESPN for the Jimmy V Classic. I can't say with certainty which side Wichita State or ESPN were why they didn't play, but I would ASSUME and I am going to use that word because its the truth of this matter that Wichita State couldn't fit the game in its schedule. ESPN doesn't just put major conference teams in the Jimmy V they want the best teams to raise the most money they can for the V foundation. I think if Marshall wanted to play the game he probably could have gotten it done.

I am still wondering why you are defending them some much. I think if any reporter asked Marshall the statements I have made above in questions it would clarify the situation. However, the media is too busy to do that and Marshall is reveling in all the love and attention he is getting for a 31-0 season where he has only played 2 teams in the top 50 of the RPI and only 10 of the 31 games against top 100 competition.
 

Alsacs

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In regards to St. Louis; Dayton is very good. Should be a Tourney team. That league is very good. I would not be surprised at all to see an A10 team make it to Dallas. Boeheim said back at Maui that Dayton was the one team he didn't want SU to play.
A-10 has 6 teams in contention and think they get 5
UMass, VCU, St. Louis, George Washington should get in and then St. Joe's or Dayton should get in as well.

I just think if @ St. Louis is your toughest game all season and best win you can't be a 1 seed because your schedule isn't good enough and you haven't beaten/played enough top teams.
 

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