Zone offense passing

[statsgrad]

Long time lurker and I hadn't seen this talked about so I figured I'd chime in ... everyone can tell you the key to a good zone offense is getting the ball to the free throw line, but the real key seems to be what you do with it from there. CJ and JS don't seem to be looking for teammates once they get the ball in this position (they are averaging 0.9 and <0.5 assists per game in Big East play respectively). This has caused opposing teams to essentially morph their 2-3 into a 2-1-2 such that when we do get the ball into the free throw area to these guys, they are taking contested shots. It actually speaks to how good CJ is that he is still hitting a lot of these. One would think that if we got the ball in there to CJ and then he was able to kick it back out to an open Triche or Southerland on the perimiter shooting percentages would naturally go up, but CJ's forte seems to be as a jump shooter/garbage man, rather than an Otto Porter type playmaker.

It may be a crazy suggestion, but it seems as though our zone offense would be a lot more effective with Triche or MCW in the free throw area because they have enough size to handle that spot, can hit the foul line jumper, and can pass the ball from there. The reason the Syracuse zone has been so effective over the years is that there are very few players in college basketball who have the 3 traits required to be successful againt a zone (1. enough size to see/shoot over the defense 2. consistent mid range jumpshot 3. passing ability from the free throw area) It just doesn't seem to me that CJ or JS are ever going to be that Otto Porter type of playmaker for us and that our shooting percentages will continue to be low until we put someone in the middle who can pass a little more effectively.

 

[Sufran]

Well said.

 

[jdubs30]

* This leaves you with 1 guard on the perimeter, it would be harder to penetrate
* Ball movement would suffer; Fair and Southerland are not the passers that the guards are
* Good luck getting the ball to Triche in that spot, it would take a perfect pass
* It would require CJ be at/around the 3pt line most of the time, he's much better off in the paint and roaming around inside the arc

It does make sense at first, but it takes away too much from the offense. Putting Triche or MCW in that spot would much eliminate any dribble penetration that we would get and it would take away the best part of CJ's game. If you want to CJ in where he's best and put a guard at the foul line, we'll have 3 players in essentially the same area.

With both guards up top, you get quicker ball movement and a better chance of getting into the gaps through the dribble. If you put Fair and Southlerland up top on either side of MCW, no one is goign to be worried about them getting anywhere with the dribble, it makes it way easier to defend.

 

[cuseinseattle]

* This leaves you with 1 guard on the perimeter, it would be harder to penetrate
* Ball movement would suffer; Fair and Southerland are not the passers that the guards are
* Good luck getting the ball to Triche in that spot, it would take a perfect pass
* It would require CJ be at/around the 3pt line most of the time, he's much better off in the paint and roaming around inside the arc

It does make sense at first, but it takes away too much from the offense. Putting Triche or MCW in that spot would much eliminate any dribble penetration that we would get and it would take away the best part of CJ's game. If you want to CJ in where he's best and put a guard at the foul line, we'll have 3 players in essentially the same area.

With both guards up top, you get quicker ball movement and a better chance of getting into the gaps through the dribble. If you put Fair and Southlerland up top on either side of MCW, no one is goign to be worried about them getting anywhere with the dribble, it makes it way easier to defend.

I had written basically half of what you said and then I accidently pushed back and when I went back in I read your post and was like...well crap no point in posting my post any more.

 

[cuseinseattle]

The bottom line is we need CJ to be this guy. He can make that shot very well and just needs to look to pass to people below the foul line.

 

[cuseinseattle]

This is a hard pass to make when you have the wings staying back because they know that no one can make a perimiter shot. If Southerland and Triche starting making some open looks out entire world would change.

 

[statsgrad]

That's the key, you don't have 3 guys up top ... at least one if not both of CJ and JS should be in the corners below the ball. Right now we only have Xmas below the ball, which makes penetration impossible anyway because all 5 defenders have a foot in the paint. This has caused Triche and MCW to look "painfully slow" against zones.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I've never seen a more poor passing team against zone defenses than ours right now. This is amazing, considering we have a PG who is top 5 nationally in assists. What does that tell you about the rest of our team? It's painful watching our zone offense just pass, dribble nowhere, pass back, dribble around a screen, pass back, oops shot clock is getting low who wants the ball? Clank.

 

[jdubs30]

I've never seen a more poor passing team against zone defenses than ours right now. This is amazing, considering we have a PG who is top 5 nationally in assists. What does that tell you about the rest of our team? It's painful watching our zone offense just pass, dribble nowhere, pass back, dribble around a screen, pass back, oops shot clock is getting low who wants the ball? Clank.

Have you seen some teams pass against our zone?

 

[snowycuse]

I think it has less to do with passing or our guys at the FT line knowing what to do and more with the fact that opposing teams playing zone ONLY have to cover our mid-range game. Our perimeter players and bigs are wide open and we either miss wide open 3's or pass/drive to the FT line to a turnover. CJ gets the ball at the line and he is instantly covered by the entire team and in turn tries to dribble through it or Southerland/Grant take bad shots. MCW is even worse. If he was at the FT line he would have more turnovers than he already has. We cannot hit shots so the only fix is to try and get the ball to Xmas more which they have not tried all year. He posts up and is not even looked at. Granted he is not an offensive machine but if our bigs can pretend like they can play the spacing gets better for drives which is all this team can do.

 

[Coach Orange]

More and quicker ball movement--against man and zone defenses--would help remedy many of the team's offensive ailments. As many have mentioned (including me in other posts), more player movement off the ball would help, too. Still, the players have to make shots, but they've unfortunately missed plenty of those, even the open ones.

 

[rrlbees]

I've never seen a more poor passing team against zone defenses than ours right now. This is amazing, considering we have a PG who is top 5 nationally in assists. What does that tell you about the rest of our team? It's painful watching our zone offense just pass, dribble nowhere, pass back, dribble around a screen, pass back, oops shot clock is getting low who wants the ball? Clank.

You attack a zone with the pass and a m2m with the dribble. A bigger problem than our guards passing the ball around too much is that they are the only ones that can pass or dribble. CJ and James can't pass nor dribble. And none of our centers are the type that can receive a pass and kick it back out to a shooter.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[NineOneSeven]

Have you seen some teams pass against our zone?

Nah bro don't watch the games

 

[NineOneSeven]

You attack a zone with the pass and a m2m with the dribble. A bigger problem than our guards passing the ball around too much is that they are the only ones that can pass or dribble. CJ and James can't pass nor dribble. And none of our centers are the type that can receive a pass and kick it back out to a shooter.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Agreed. As great as cj has been, he's not a guy you can give the ball to at the top of the key and let him go to work. Hell, as much schtick as Joseph got, he had that ability (gtown a few years ago really comes to mind).

 

[Madbiker]

I actually think the best at what you described will be Grant...but not until next season.

 

[OrangeDW]

Our zone offense is either MCW penetrates a gap and kicks for a three(usually a miss lately), Fair catches at the high post, or we pass and dribble aimlessly around the perimeter.

We can't/don't work the baseline at all, can't/don't get any kind of high low attack, we don't screen the weak side guard like GTown kept doing, to free up their shooters. We don't do much of anything.

I have a hard time believing that all of our players are so one dimensional on offense that they can't do basic things against a zone, but maybe.

 

[jdubs30]

Our zone offense is either MCW penetrates a gap and kicks for a three(usually a miss lately), Fair catches at the high post, or we pass and dribble aimlessly around the perimeter.

We can't/don't work the baseline at all, can't/don't get any kind of high low attack, we don't screen the weak side guard like GTown kept doing, to free up their shooters. We don't do much of anything.

I have a hard time believing that all of our players are so one dimensional on offense that they can't do basic things against a zone, but maybe.

Like OP mentioned, it takes a really, really good player to succeed at the foul line against a good zone (like Porter). You have to be an above average passer, an above average shooter, an adequate dribbler, have height and be a great decision maker (it's one thing to catch the ball there, it's another thing to know what to do with the ball right as you get it). If you put a player there that is below average in one of those areas, it won't work for a full 40 minutes.