Tyler Ennis: Hapoel Tel Aviv

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Orangezoo]

Good. Needs to get in game shape so he can lead BA to another TBT title.

 

[Hopkins16]

One of my favorite players who should have had a long NBA career. This could have happened if he stayed in school for 3 or 4 years. He is a steady floor leader, a general who needed 2 or 3 more years in school to get stronger, continue to get better at everything being that he is not a dynamic or hyper athletic player. He could have been a Jalen Brunson, Shabazz Napier or Fred Van Vleet. Chasing the NBA after a hot year might get you drafted and a contract (Malachi) but nothing much after that.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Orangezoo]

Going full Harden I see...

 

[Orangezoo]

One of my favorite players who should have had a long NBA career. This could have happened if he stayed in school for 3 or 4 years. He is a steady floor leader, a general who needed 2 or 3 more years in school to get stronger, continue to get better at everything being that he is not a dynamic or hyper athletic player. He could have been a Jalen Brunson, Shabazz Napier or Fred Van Vleet. Chasing the NBA after a hot year might get you drafted and a contract (Malachi) but nothing much after that.

I don't think him staying another year would have made an ounce of difference for him. Don't forget his hypo. soph year we had a post season ban.

 

[Hopkins16]

I don't think him staying another year would have made an ounce of difference for him. Don't forget his hypo. soph year we had a post season ban.

He needed 3 or 4 years in school so a post season ban his sophomore year isn't relevant. It's about getting better in school over a longer period of time. I liked Van Vleet in college especially his junior and senior years. All the talk of him being undersized and slow outweighed his growth over his college years and he went undrafted. But his 4 years of experience and skills gained him entry into the league and a career once given a chance.

 

[Orangezoo]

He needed 3 or 4 years in school so a post season ban his sophomore year isn't relevant. It's about getting better in school over a longer period of time. I liked Van Vleet in college especially his junior and senior years. All the talk of him being undersized and slow outweighed his growth over his college years and he went undrafted. But his 4 years of experience and skills gained him entry into the league and a career once given a chance.

3 or 4 years? No. Van Vleet would have developed just fine without spending 4 years. He had his best shooting year from 3 and averaged more mins in year 2 than 3 or 4.

 

[Hopkins16]

Yes, bye may have had a better shooting percentage and played more minutes his sophomore year, but his overall game and growth got better each year. His minutes dropped because they had more guards but his overall play rose as he was named to the conference all-league team in both junior and senior years.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yes, bye may have had a better shooting percentage and played more minutes his sophomore year, but his overall game and growth got better each year. His minutes dropped because they had more guards but his overall play rose as he was named to the conference all-league team in both junior and senior years.

Your theory doesn't work for a ton of guys. Tyus stayed an extra year and wasn't drafted. Jeremy and Oshae only stayed 2 and both are doing great. MCW is still balling and would be more if not for injuries.

Ennis captained a team that started 25-0. Kids develop outside of being on campus. It's not a new thing. There is zero evidence that Ennis has a better career if he stays longer. It's just fan bias.

 

[Hopkins16]

Your theory doesn't work for a ton of guys. Tyus stayed an extra year and wasn't drafted. Jeremy and Oshae only stayed 2 and both are doing great. MCW is still balling and would be more if not for injuries.

Ennis captained a team that started 25-0. Kids develop outside of being on campus. It's not a new thing. There is zero evidence that Ennis has a better career if he stays longer. It's just fan bias.

I feel like it's a case by case situation on when it's best for a particular player to leave. Jerami is a super athletic player and solid defender which bought him some time to develop his overall skill set. MCWs vision, length and defense is unique and valued in the NBA and was ready (rookie of the year). Ennis, as I said in my initial post, is a smart and steady point guard but he is below average athletically and he's small (a mini Kyle Anderson in style of play). In his particular case, i really do believe it would have served him well to work in college on every aspect of his game and his body to have a chance at an NBA career like the other comparable point guards I mentioned. I'm not a fan who think in terms of what's best for SU, as I have posted that Guerrier may have made the right decision to transfer. But, let's agree to disagree, it's happy hour time.

 

[hoopsupstate]

He made the best decision for himself, unfortunately it wasn’t the best decision for SU. He would have gained nothing by coming back for his sophomore season.

 

[CardiacCuse]

One of my favorite players who should have had a long NBA career. This could have happened if he stayed in school for 3 or 4 years. He is a steady floor leader, a general who needed 2 or 3 more years in school to get stronger, continue to get better at everything being that he is not a dynamic or hyper athletic player. He could have been a Jalen Brunson, Shabazz Napier or Fred Van Vleet. Chasing the NBA after a hot year might get you drafted and a contract (Malachi) but nothing much after that.

prime example of why jumping as early as possible is not always in best long term interest...malachi is another, imo.

still surprised 17, 7 and 5 in gleague isnt enough to get a another chance in NBA, though

 

[721Comstock]

prime example of why jumping as early as possible is not always in best long term interest...malachi is another, imo.

still surprised 17, 7 and 5 in gleague isnt enough to get a another chance in NBA, though

There’s NO “long term”, IF you don’t get the “short term” first.

Ennis & Mali got millions of $’s, for their potential.

Had they stayed in college, it likely would have become very clear that there wasn’t all that much more upside -
Which means they’d never sniff the NBA - or those millions they did actually earn - at all.

Look at Ennis’ injury history.
He gets hurt like that in college, he’s never getting a dime as an NBA Pro.

Ask KrisJo, CJ, Tyus, et al about what a great idea it is to come back and work on your game (for zero $), in the hopes you’ll make more in the long term.

 

[CardiacCuse]

There’s NO “long term”, IF you don’t get the “short term” first.

Ennis & Mali got millions of $’s, for their potential.

Had they stayed in college, it likely would have become very clear that there wasn’t all that much more upside -
Which means they’d never sniff the NBA - or those millions they did actually earn - at all.

Look at Ennis’ injury history.
He gets hurt like that in college, he’s never getting a dime as an NBA Pro.

Ask KrisJo, CJ, Tyus, et al about what a great idea it is to come back and work on your game (for zero $), in the hopes you’ll make more in the long term.

you see black and white.

i see grey.

never have i argued it is ALWAYS better to stay or ALWAYS better to leave early as possible (like you do)

youre right that the short term money can vanish...so not taking it when its there is a risk.

but you also seem unwilling to admit that sometimes taking the short term cash now minimizes (and sometimes seriously so) the odds of "long term money"...which is just obvious to objective observers.

i guess you are motivated by the idea that these guys who leave early must never face any type of even mild criticism in any way bc of what they did for the orange...but there's simply a bunch of nuance that your way of looking at things totally disregards...its like youre defending character that isnt even being attacked.

whatever decision a player makes i.e. when to go pro...is generally a risk in some way or other. for the zions of the world, not so much...but for everyone else, yes.

for the players who are legit NOT READY to thrive now in the NBA but will be drafted on potential going early is basically akin to saying "yeah give me my rookie deal and thats all I'll ever want"...for +90something % of them thats how its going to go.

which is their decision and if thats what they want then fine...its their life.

in my opinion though i think if you asked most players if they want a long or short nba career...almost all would say long.

In my opinion players who are ready from day 1 will always have way higher odds of getting a second contract etc, imo.

furthermore, i think if you arent in the rotation now bc you arent ready...good luck getting in in the future.

im not here trying to tell players what they should want or do...

but in the case of ennis and mali, for example, I seriously think those two players couldve gotten better and been in better position to sustain nba careers by staying...even though it mightve risked them not getting drafted at all (small risk) via injury etc...maybe 85%-15% improve-not improve by staying, imo.

pretty much all players who stay at syracuse consistently have better stats year on year...like across the board. christmas, rautins, etc are more of the norm imo...so i dont think any of the players who do stay are risking regression by any means...it simply never happens under boeheim, imo. he gives his players the platform to SHINE by senior year at the latest ...are you not paying attention to how he does it???

he leans on his vets and shows loyalty to the players who stick it out for him.

in my opinion by being more open to players staying than you are, i am displaying more faith in the players' ability than you are...I think your opinion reveals that you dont truly think most players are good enough to stick in the NBA...which is ironic to me bc i think you consider your side of the debate to be more pro-player - but its really not (at least not fully)

 

[MSOrange]

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[hoopsupstate]

Tyler was just a great player for SU. His leaving early might be the single most reason for SU’s decline. SU had no one ready to step in until Judah this year. We haven’t had a resemblance of a point guard. Judah is still a work in progress. Best picture ever shown on tv was Dixon’s face after Tyler made the 35 footer to win at the Pete. Priceless!

 

[tbonezone]

Tofaş SK of the Turkish BSL ?​

"we have your daughter "

 

[rhcuse]

 

[jordville]

Tyler is back on the court...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[IthacaMatt]

I feel like it's a case by case situation on when it's best for a particular player to leave. Jerami is a super athletic player and solid defender which bought him some time to develop his overall skill set. MCWs vision, length and defense is unique and valued in the NBA and was ready (rookie of the year). Ennis, as I said in my initial post, is a smart and steady point guard but he is below average athletically and he's small (a mini Kyle Anderson in style of play). In his particular case, i really do believe it would have served him well to work in college on every aspect of his game and his body to have a chance at an NBA career like the other comparable point guards I mentioned. I'm not a fan who think in terms of what's best for SU, as I have posted that Guerrier may have made the right decision to transfer. But, let's agree to disagree, it's happy hour time.

Ennis' upside was a Mark Jackson type of PG. Maybe the days when those guys could find a career in the NBA are gone.