David Ortiz on why he's retiring after a season like this

bpo57 said:

Other than the fact that Ortiz has been a postseason monster, the greatest clutch hitter of his generation and hit 230 more HRs and drove in 500 more runs, he and martinez were pretty close.

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Cusefan0307 said:

Nobody has killed the Yankees over the years more than Ortiz. Hated him with a passion, but have to respect his hitting ability.

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Ghost said:

I will readily agree that if u ignore advanced metrics, and really really really love home runs Big Papi is far superior. And that Sammy Sosa is one of the greatest players ever.

He's a huge star, and great player, still not disputing that. Just find the celebration of him over the top.

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bpo57 said:

To a degree I can understand your view of the celebration, particularly if you don't like him or his team.

I don't just like HRs as I like RBIs too and there he is in excellent company.

The guy was in the middle of three world championships for a franchise that went empty for 86 years. That has to count for something.

Lastly even the steroid thing loses a little juice (no pun intended) given that he has been tested over and over in the last few years and continues to produce at a very high level. A lot of the known juicers fell apart after they couldn't use the stuff anymore.

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Ghost said:

He probably still uses. AROD would be still be using and hitting 55 HRs a year if the Yankees weren't so hell bent on voiding his contract for while. He's still never failed a test.

Plus, the number of tests Ortiz admitted to MLB making him take would only be administered in that QTY if he failed at least once.

Of course it counts. Same for Jeter, again I'm a Yankees fan, but opportunity plays a big part in their success. Jeter was surrounded by a wrecking crew, so was Big Papi. The greatest clutch hitter of his generation played a lot of seasons with arguably a better clutch hitter right there with him. Manny.

I feel like im arguing against him now...I like him, he's great. I just think he got some weird free pass for using PEDs. Lol

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Knicks411 said:

I really doubt Ortiz has been consistently using since the testing started. Was he using before? Obviously I can't say for sure but it seems pretty likely. But prior to this year, homers are down pretty markedly since the "steroid era", I think it's safe to say usage is way down across the game and I don't have any reason to think Ortiz is any different.

If you look at the fangraphs pages, Edgar and Ortiz aren't really that far off from each other. Really the bigger take away is that Edgar Martinez was an incredible hitter.

As a Yankee fan, just curious, do you think Pettitte gets a free pass for PED use?

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br801 said:

Pettitte gets a pass because he was a nice, God-fearing, aw shucks kind of guy.

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Knicks411 said:

I really doubt Ortiz has been consistently using since the testing started. Was he using before? Obviously I can't say for sure but it seems pretty likely. But prior to this year, homers are down pretty markedly since the "steroid era", I think it's safe to say usage is way down across the game and I don't have any reason to think Ortiz is any different.

If you look at the fangraphs pages, Edgar and Ortiz aren't really that far off from each other. Really the bigger take away is that Edgar Martinez was an incredible hitter.

As a Yankee fan, just curious, do you think Pettitte gets a free pass for PED use?

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Ghost said:

He probably still uses. AROD would be still be using and hitting 55 HRs a year if the Yankees weren't so hell bent on voiding his contract for while. He's still never failed a test.

Plus, the number of tests Ortiz admitted to MLB making him take would only be administered in that QTY if he failed at least once.

Of course it counts. Same for Jeter, again I'm a Yankees fan, but opportunity plays a big part in their success. Jeter was surrounded by a wrecking crew, so was Big Papi. The greatest clutch hitter of his generation played a lot of seasons with arguably a better clutch hitter right there with him. Manny.

I feel like im arguing against him now...I like him, he's great. I just think he got some weird free pass for using PEDs. Lol

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Knicks411 said:

There's definitely a correlation between how much the media likes you and how you get treated for PED usage. (Among other things, of course)

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Knicks411 said:

I really doubt Ortiz has been consistently using since the testing started. Was he using before? Obviously I can't say for sure but it seems pretty likely. But prior to this year, homers are down pretty markedly since the "steroid era", I think it's safe to say usage is way down across the game and I don't have any reason to think Ortiz is any different.

If you look at the fangraphs pages, Edgar and Ortiz aren't really that far off from each other. Really the bigger take away is that Edgar Martinez was an incredible hitter.

As a Yankee fan, just curious, do you think Pettitte gets a free pass for PED use?

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SUFaninNJ said:

I think Andy also seemed to get a pass because he addressed the issue and "seemed" to be apologetic. He didn't deny it. He didn't blame it on someone else. He also is, as was pointed out, a likeable God fearing person. That plays on some people. If you liked Andy before news broke, and take what he said at face value, there's a decent chance of you still liking him.

Do I think Papi used? Yes. He was one of 8 Red Sox players (including Manny) listed on that 2003 list. He's friendly, and pudgy and people seem to like him, so when he denies he used, many people accept it.

Do I think he's using this year? I have no idea.

Players are still going to use PEDs, even though there's still the threat of suspension. Just ask Dee Gordon.[/QUOTE
The list has never been published. There is no proof that red sox players were on the list.

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SUFaninNJ said:

I think Andy also seemed to get a pass because he addressed the issue and "seemed" to be apologetic. He didn't deny it. He didn't blame it on someone else. He also is, as was pointed out, a likeable God fearing person. That plays on some people. If you liked Andy before news broke, and take what he said at face value, there's a decent chance of you still liking him.

Do I think Papi used? Yes. He was one of 8 Red Sox players (including Manny) listed on that 2003 list. He's friendly, and pudgy and people seem to like him, so when he denies he used, many people accept it.

Do I think he's using this year? I have no idea.

Players are still going to use PEDs, even though there's still the threat of suspension. Just ask Dee Gordon.

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Knicks411 said:

I really doubt Ortiz has been consistently using since the testing started. Was he using before? Obviously I can't say for sure but it seems pretty likely. But prior to this year, homers are down pretty markedly since the "steroid era", I think it's safe to say usage is way down across the game and I don't have any reason to think Ortiz is any different.

If you look at the fangraphs pages, Edgar and Ortiz aren't really that far off from each other. Really the bigger take away is that Edgar Martinez was an incredible hitter.

As a Yankee fan, just curious, do you think Pettitte gets a free pass for PED use?

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bpo57 said:

I remember reading a story about Ortiz where he complained about the testers coming to his house unannounced periodically at 7:00 in the morning. I doubt very much that he's still using now. The downside to that decision is too severe.

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Ghost said:

Absolutely, and I would also have "awe shucks" in my response, like bring.

It helps he was so contrite, obviosly, but his style plays well.

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Ghost said:

Admittedly, I fall into the "everyone but Griffey" used crowd. Lol

I also think many probably still do. Even if it's just an off season regimen...I mean, Brett Gardner doesn't magically fall apart in the second half most years 4 nothing.

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SUFaninNJ said:

Wow, that was a long article. Since I can't stand him, I didn't choose to read the whole thing. What's his reason?

PS I hope a Yankee pitcher plunks him to send him off on his way. They have nothing to lose, really.

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OttoMets said:

I don't know where this thread goes from here, but I'll jump in and agree with you 100%.

I can't stand the guy. Self-aggrandizing cheater who plays a BS position.

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SUFaninNJ said:

Assuming you're a Mets fan (big assumption, I know), if there was a possibility back in the day, would you have been upset if John Rocker took a pitch to his back pocket? I'm guessing, no.

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dasher said:

You clearly don't follow baseball closely if you think 1. that Martinez in anyway compared to Ortiz and 2. Ortiz never failed a test for roids. Just plain wrong. He was alleged to be on a list, and we don't know for sure because the list has never been made public for p.e.d's . They don't say what kind. UInlike A-Rod, he was never linked to PEDS in any way again. Oh, and the stats between Edgar Martinez and Ortiz..
Runs scored Ortiz 1417 Martinez 1219 RBI's Ortiz 1765 Martinez 1261 HR's Ortiz 540 Martinez 309 Batting average Ortiz .286 Martinez .312 We won't get in to the sick numbers Ortiz post season.

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Capt. Tuttle said:

I guess life got easier as a hitter when he stopped playing half his games in the MetroDome and started playing I'm the AL east.:rolling:
Imagine if Martinez used.

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dasher said:

Imagine if Bill Lee used like Andy Petitte did. It's fun to play games like that.

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