Anyone think that? | Syracusefan.com

Anyone think that?

Rage4CUSE

2018-19 Iggy Hoops NCAA Tourney Record
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Getting punched in the mouth in the first 8 minutes by IUP was a great thing for this team?

I'm sure JB let the kids, or they already knew, that they were a pretty solid D2 team, with players that have D1 experience.

But going down by double digits early forced JB to take out the entire starting unit and throw in the back ups. And they started to hold thier own for several minutes before JB brought some of the staters back in. But that stretch of time against some decent competition should have really netted them some confidence.
 
Getting punched in the mouth in the first 8 minutes by IUP was a great thing for this team?

I'm sure JB let the kids, or they already knew, that they were a pretty solid D2 team, with players that have D1 experience.

But going down by double digits early forced JB to take out the entire starting unit and throw in the back ups. And they started to hold thier own for several minutes before JB brought some of the staters back in. But that stretch of time against some decent competition should have really netted them some confidence.

Nah, I never think that not doing well is ever good.

If anything I think they should feel embarrassed by being down 10+ against a glorified CYO team when the talent and athletic level are so far off.
 
First time playing together as a team against an opponent. Are you surprised that we struggle the first 10 minutes of play time this season?
 
Rage4CUSE said:
Getting punched in the mouth in the first 8 minutes by IUP was a great thing for this team? I'm sure JB let the kids, or they already knew, that they were a pretty solid D2 team, with players that have D1 experience. But going down by double digits early forced JB to take out the entire starting unit and throw in the back ups. And they started to hold thier own for several minutes before JB brought some of the staters back in. But that stretch of time against some decent competition should have really netted them some confidence.

Pieces are really there

Think offensive coaching has developed over the years, so I'm more confident we won't see plain face-up 1x1 action

Could be a special year if chemistry builds.

Will be watching and enjoying.
 
Getting punched in the mouth in the first 8 minutes by IUP was a great thing for this team?

I'm sure JB let the kids, or they already knew, that they were a pretty solid D2 team, with players that have D1 experience.

But going down by double digits early forced JB to take out the entire starting unit and throw in the back ups. And they started to hold thier own for several minutes before JB brought some of the staters back in. But that stretch of time against some decent competition should have really netted them some confidence.

Not for team nor the coaches. More for the fans.

We went from 100 to 0 in about 20 minutes...then 0 to 100 in another 20.
 
Getting punched in the mouth in the first 8 minutes by IUP was a great thing for this team?

I'm sure JB let the kids, or they already knew, that they were a pretty solid D2 team, with players that have D1 experience.

But going down by double digits early forced JB to take out the entire starting unit and throw in the back ups. And they started to hold thier own for several minutes before JB brought some of the staters back in. But that stretch of time against some decent competition should have really netted them some confidence.

Absolutely, on the outside Jb wasn't thrilled we played that badly to start, but on the inside he was thrilled, its all about teaching points right now.
 
First time playing together as a team against an opponent. Are you surprised that we struggle the first 10 minutes of play time this season?
Not surprised. First exhibition game. A lot of new players in a new system. Good to get a first glimpse of them at least. Fans often read too much into these. Of course it is good they ended up winning by a healthy margin. It'll shake out fine over the next several games.
 
First time playing together as a team against an opponent. Are you surprised that we struggle the first 10 minutes of play time this season?

Do I think it matters that we struggled for the first ten minutes? Absolutely not. Is the talent and athleticism gap between the two teams huge? Yes

We started slow out of the gate not because the team is new and gelling, we just played poorly, we couldn't score and our players didn't play defense.
 
Nah, I never think that not doing well is ever good.

If anything I think they should feel embarrassed by being down 10+ against a glorified CYO team when the talent and athletic level are so far off.
CYO is a bit of hyperbole.

For starters, they have a Spanish international--not exactly chapped liver--on that squad.
 
CYO is a bit of hyperbole.

For starters, they have a Spanish international--not exactly chapped liver--on that squad.

They are on of the better d2 teams out there.
 
Pieces are really there

Think offensive coaching has developed over the years, so I'm more confident we won't see plain face-up 1x1 action

Could be a special year if chemistry builds.

Will be watching and enjoying.
The more and more I've learned about basketball this past year the more my perception about JB and the coaching staff changes. I used to think their short coming as a coaching staff was on defense and I could not have been more wrong. The 2-3 is so dang hard to play against and JB does such an amazing job of coaching/recruiting for it. On the other hand, on the offfensive end I am definitely skeptical of our Xs and Os on that end. We should run a lot more horns ball screen sets. We literally run none. Basically all teams do in Europe is run simple spread PnR sets out of horns. I also think we should have more spread PnR entries and I can't remember the last time we scored out of a BLOB. I am very interested to see what the staff does with this team offensively. This team has ALL the pieces to be an efficient offensive team and if they are not, that's squarely on the coaches, imo.
 
A couple thoughts about offense/defense:

One, our offense better evolve, because while the defense will definitely improve a lot in the next two months or so, it won't be a traditional strong Boeheim zone. With all those new-old guys, it can't be.

Also, I won't defend the offense, because I do think that's this staff's weak point, but I was happy to see more successful pick and rolls than we had all last season. I only expect this to get better. After three years of having really sub-par guards who couldn't be trusted to run that play, we're going to benefit from having talented guards who can do it instinctively and will improve along with guys like Roberson, Lydon, and the big guy as they get more comfortable playing with each other. That Gillon-to-Chukwu pass looked like it'd be practiced 1,000 times already this fall.
 
The more and more I've learned about basketball this past year the more my perception about JB and the coaching staff changes. I used to think their short coming as a coaching staff was on defense and I could not have been more wrong. The 2-3 is so dang hard to play against and JB does such an amazing job of coaching/recruiting for it. On the other hand, on the offfensive end I am definitely skeptical of our Xs and Os on that end. We should run a lot more horns ball screen sets. We literally run none. Basically all teams do in Europe is run simple spread PnR sets out of horns. I also think we should have more spread PnR entries and I can't remember the last time we scored out of a BLOB. I am very interested to see what the staff does with this team offensively. This team has ALL the pieces to be an efficient offensive team and if they are not, that's squarely on the coaches, imo.

Really hard to do run an effective PnR the past couple of years. We either lacked the point guard or the proper shooting to spread the floor. The last 2 years it was the PG, prior to that it was the shooting. If you remember last year, Mike could not turn downhill once he passed the screener. It's why in the UVA game we abandoned the PnR.

You can have all the set's in the world, but if your players aren't effective in the spots they are designed to play it's a moot point.

This year we have the skills, so I agree there's no reason we shouldn't have an elite offense.
 
A lot of us SU fans have a chapped liver. This is good for the entire fanbase.
Get plenty of rest and lay off the alcohol for a few days (like Monday and Tuesday)
 
A couple thoughts about offense/defense:

One, our offense better evolve, because while the defense will definitely improve a lot in the next two months or so, it won't be a traditional strong Boeheim zone. With all those new-old guys, it can't be.

Also, I won't defend the offense, because I do think that's this staff's weak point, but I was happy to see more successful pick and rolls than we had all last season. I only expect this to get better. After three years of having really sub-par guards who couldn't be trusted to run that play, we're going to benefit from having talented guards who can do it instinctively and will improve along with guys like Roberson, Lydon, and the big guy as they get more comfortable playing with each other. That Gillon-to-Chukwu pass looked like it'd be practiced 1,000 times already this fall.
I'm a little more optimistic than you are about the potential for this team to play elite-level zone D. What we saw Tuesday was no indication: we played man (awfully); the other team was filled with mighty-mites; and it was the first game with a lot of newcomers to the system. Even the vets, as JB said, are "veterans in something else".

Here's why I'm optimistic for this team to develop a killer zone:

1. Size front to back. We have the tallest player ever at the 5, our forwards are 6'9 and 6'7/6'8. Up top, with Howard in the lineup and either White or Battle playing the 2, our backcourt is 6'5 - 6'6/6'7. This has to be, if not the tallest, at least one of the tallest zones in program history.

2. Shotblocking. Chukwu and Lydon are the factors here. Lydon's +20 pounds this year and isn't going to get pushed around as easily as last year. In 2015-16, he had 67 blocks all year as a freshman (about equal to Jackson's 69 as a junior in 2010). However, because he matured over the course of the season, he had a phenomenal 20 blocks (4 pg) in the NCAA's. With that experience and more bulk, he's going to be a factor defensively either at forward or center. I'm not sure if he'll get to Jackson's senior numbers (86 blocks), but Chukwu may at 7'2" depending on his minutes. He'll be erasing and altering shots and I think we can expect big numbers from him.

3. Athleticism: I'm not a fan of Howard's defense. Last year, he was in the doghouse many times. This year, we'll see. But I do like Gillon's defense. He has the quickness to stay in front of ACC guards, and if Howard makes some strides, the combination of his size and Gillon's quickness should keep us competitive defensively up top. Battle is a difference maker in the backcourt. He gives us an elite level defender at the 2, a position from which opposing teams will look to score. On the front line, aside from Lydon and Chukwu, our two wings - White and Roberson - I think both will solid on D. Neither is a shot-blocker. But at this point, Roberson knows his position in the zone, and I'm expecting his D to shine. With Chukwu backing him up, he can take more risks on close-outs. As far as White (at the other forward slot), his D is a WIP. What I am confident about is that he's strong and has a high BB IQ. To play effective zone, he doesn't have to play lightening quick M2M defense. He just has to know his role and use his feet -- if he does those things the zone is the perfect defense for him.

4. Depth: This team goes 9-10 deep ,... all capable players. And since they can practice 5 on 5 scholarship guys, this is a big advantage to learning the zone and getting used to the slides/help rotations. Depth also gives players enough rest, so they're fresh down the stretch, not ragged like TC and MG were last year.
 
... Depth also gives players enough rest, so they're fresh down the stretch, not ragged like TC and MG were last year.

Depth gives players enough rest, but Boeheim doesn't. Not historically, at least.

Sorry, couldn't resist such a great one-liner.

Anyway, it'll take a season before either of us starts to look right or wrong on this subject, but my stance chiefly comes from my observation that playing terrific zone defense:

a) is very difficult and is the product of seasons' worth of game experience, and
b) dependent on the quality of your teammates' defense.

If those two things are true, we have three regulars who will be incapable of becoming elite zone defenders this season by virtue of their being first-year players (the first factor) and the defense played by everyone around them will be less effective as a result (the second factor).

I also think that Boeheim's talk about man defense shows his resignation to a decline in the quality of our half-court defense. This is unusual and I'm ready to embrace it - I like that he's flexible here, and I'm fairly confident that superior offensive players can make up for a somewhat diminished defense.

As for your points, you may be right (and even if you aren't, I'm cool with the liabilities that I see). But I'd counter that:

1) This ignores the fact that Gillon, a tiny guy at a very important position, is likely to play a lot of minutes. Having a tiny guard up top negates a size advantage elsewhere. Size is further negated by the fact that Chukwu and White are really slow.

2) We'll see how Chukwu does as a shot-blocker. At best, he's probably a work in progress. Lydon's got a little experience and is savvy, but no amount of weight gain will change the fact that he's a non-center playing center. Sometimes he'll block some shots, but every time we play a team with a real center, we'll be at a disadvantage with Lydon (who, to compound a bad situation, we really need to protect from racking up fouls) at center.

3) Agree with most of this - we're a much more typically athletic Syracuse team this season. White might be an exception to that, but I shouldn't pretend to have seen enough to judge. Athleticism covers a lot of sins. (Will it cover a 5'10" point guard up top? We'll see.)

4) See my snark up top; it was a joke, but I'm serious. If Boeheim finds a player he thinks is indispensable, that player will be on the court for 36+ minutes and will be a little tired. It's always better to have scholarship practice players instead of walk-ons, but I don't value that as much as some.

Anyway, I hope this is academic, because we probably have enough offensive skill to score 80+ most nights and not stress about a few missed rotations. I'm really looking forward to seeing a more classic Syracuse team. Dominant defense is nice, but watching this group score might be more fun.
 
4. Depth: This team goes 9-10 deep ,... all capable players. And since they can practice 5 on 5 scholarship guys, this is a big advantage to learning the zone and getting used to the slides/help rotations. Depth also gives players enough rest, so they're fresh down the stretch, not ragged like TC and MG were last year.

Cooney sure as heck didn't looked ragged during the tournament. Thought he played the best basketball of his Syracuse career the last 5 games.
 
Cooney sure as heck didn't looked ragged during the tournament. Thought he played the best basketball of his Syracuse career the last 5 games.
The tourney's a different story, b/c there's only 5 games, not 30+. And they play only 2 games per week .. then have a week off. Totally different situation than regular season. I don't think too many people are going to argue that we didn't need a third (quality/experienced) guard last year to spell TC/BC. Depth provides not only rest minutes (to spell the starters), it insulates against fouls and allows coaches more options on defense (i.e., to press).
 
Cooney sure as heck didn't looked ragged during the tournament. Thought he played the best basketball of his Syracuse career the last 5 games.

He redeemed himself pretty much at the end of last year. But to be honest with you, I did not miss him two nights ago. I like the way Battle is shooting the 3 and love the up tempo transition game we are showing. I wish AW3 had a little bit better shooting night but hopefully that will come too.
 
He redeemed himself pretty much at the end of last year. But to be honest with you, I did not miss him two nights ago. I like the way Battle is shooting the 3 and love the up tempo transition game we are showing. I wish AW3 had a little bit better shooting night but hopefully that will come too.

I think Battle is the surperior talent over Cooney, but I'll miss him for sure.
 

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