"12" Personnel

[javadoc]

Have seen it mentioned that if Lester is OC next year he will move toward a 12 personnel offense.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-end-formations-will-hit-nfl-by-storm-in-2012

Questions for our coaches (and those knowledgeable about the nuts and bolts):

1. Do any colleges with successful offenses run this right now?
2. Is the offense suited to the college game and college athletes, especially QB?
3. Do we have the personnel to run this next year? (Make any assumptions you have to about the incoming freshmen.)
4. How hard will it be for college defenses to handle this offense?

 

[GoSU96]

Have seen it mentioned that if Lester is OC next year he will move toward a 12 personnel offense.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-end-formations-will-hit-nfl-by-storm-in-2012

Questions for our coaches (and those knowledgeable about the nuts and bolts):

1. Do any colleges with successful offenses run this right now?
2. Is the offense suited to the college game and college athletes, especially QB?
3. Do we have the personnel to run this next year? (Make any assumptions you have to about the incoming freshmen.)
4. How hard will it be for college defenses to handle this offense?

Yeah, SU in 2012. Marrone and Hackett used two tight constantly. Big part of their offense. Still is in Buffalo.

If Lester is an advocate there's no evidence based on what he has done to date. He uses the TE less than McDonald did.

The run game has collasped, in part because of the issues with the OL and instead of bringing in TE's to help with the run blocking he has spread out more and widened the splits and run with no extra help and min protect in the pass game.

Huge head scratcher there.

Parris, Moore, and Custis have rarely seen the field the last three games.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yeah, SU in 2012. Marrone and Hackett used two tight constantly. Big part of their offense. Still is in Buffalo.

If Lester is an advocate there's no evidence based on what he has done to date. He uses the TE less than McDonald did.

The run game has collasped, in part because of the issues with the OL and instead of bringing in TE's to help with the run blocking he has spread out more and widened the splits and run with no extra help and min protect in the pass game.

Huge head scratcher there.

Parris, Moore, and Custis have rarely seen the field the last three games.

Which seems strange because Parris seemed to be a nice option in the passing game when healthy

 

[Full_Rebar]

I wonder if Lewis will get some run in the slot "TE" position next year, or if they let Custis grab that spot. Lester talked about the success they've had using West in that spot and it seems like one of the goals of the 12 is to get your faster TE matched against smaller DB's or slower LB's going down the seam.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I feel like we've been recruiting towards this with Moore, Custis, Enoicy, and now adding Lindor to that mix. Problem being that they are currently SO, FR, FR, and HS Sr at the moment so it's not an option. Perhaps next season when we have Moore a JR, and Custis and Enoicy as SO with a year in the system and in the strength program to become viable options.

That of course is in addition to Parris, who IMO, is our most complete TE at the moment whose absense on the field baffles me.

 

[007]

I wonder if Lewis will get some run in the slot "TE" position next year, or if they let Custis grab that spot. Lester talked about the success they've had using West in that spot and it seems like one of the goals of the 12 is to get your faster TE matched against smaller DB's or slower LB's going down the seam.

If you run 12, you need to have TEs that can also block at the point of attack.

Lewis, IMO, has the best hands on the team. Need to split him out.

 

[Full_Rebar]

If you run 12, you need to have TEs that can also block at the point of attack.

Lewis, IMO, has the best hands on the team. Need to split him out.

With Ishmael,Broyld, Estime, and Erv, that presents a problem in terms of getting your best players on the field, which is why I wonder if Lewis would be moved into that spot from time to time. He seems to hold his own as a blocker and you aren't asking him to take on linemen from that spot. I don't think any of the other guys are suited for that role.

 

[007]

With Ishmael,Broyld, Estime, and Erv, that presents a problem in terms of getting your best players on the field, which is why I wonder if Lewis would be moved into that spot from time to time. He seems to hold his own as a blocker and you aren't asking him to take on linemen from that spot. I don't think any of the other guys are suited for that role.

If you are suggesting that Lewis, or anyone else, is part of the "12" personnel, then he would definitely be asked to block D lineman. To be clear, in the previous post, I was only pointing out that the 2 TEs in the 12 need to be special athletes in terms of size, strength, route running and catching.

 

[Full_Rebar]

If you are suggesting that Lewis, or anyone else, is part of the "12" personnel, then he would definitely be asked to block D lineman. To be clear, in the previous post, I was only pointing out that the 2 TEs in the 12 need to be special athletes in terms of size, strength, route running and catching.

So could we be looking at another year of a coach trying to run a system that doesn't suit the personnel?

 

[PhatOrange]

So could we be looking at another year of a coach trying to run a system that doesn't suit the personnel?

isn't that what happens when you changes coaches?

 

[Aweart23]

So could we be looking at another year of a coach trying to run a system that doesn't suit the personnel?

Or you go recruit a JUCO TE that can play immediately...

 

[007]

So could we be looking at another year of a coach trying to run a system that doesn't suit the personnel?

Let's hope not. Lester seems adept at trying to game plan by using what he has. IF they go to 12 as a primary, players like Custis and Enoicy are going to train to add weight/strength. I think we would also see a few more TEs offered for 2015.

 

[CUSU]

Let's hope not. Lester seems adept at trying to game plan by using what he has. IF they go to 12 as a primary, players like Custis and Enoicy are going to train to add weight/strength. I think we would also see a few more TEs offered for 2015.

I would disagree with that point on Lester. Offense is decimated and he is not even using his own offense. We are still using GMac's crap.

EDIT: May have misread your post. Thought you said INEPT. If you indeed mean adept then we have no disagreement. :bat:

 

[007]

I would disagree with that point on Lester. Offense is decimated and he is not even using his own offense. We are still using GMac's crap.

Huh...you disagree with my point that "Lester seems adept at trying to game plan by using what he has;" by noting that the "offense is decimated and he is not even using his own offense." Doesn't that suggest to you, even a little, that Lester was game planning using what he has?

It's painful sometimes...

 

[CUSU]

Huh...you disagree with my point that "Lester seems adept at trying to game plan by using what he has;" by noting that the "offense is decimated and he is not even using his own offense." Doesn't that suggest to you, even a little, that Lester was game planning using what he has?

It's painful sometimes...

EDIT: May have misread your post. Thought you said INEPT. If you indeed mean adept then we have no disagreement. :bat:

The question is what does he have that he can work with? NOTHING. Patched together OLine that couldn't block a peewee team, 3rd and 4th string QB both freshman, and key WRs out. Compounded with the fact that GMac's offense is severely flawed for "working with what we have". There is only SO much you can do with that. I don't care if you brought in Chip Kelly or Chad Morris. They would struggle with these circumstances.

If you want to evaluate him on his game to game changes then do it when he has his own offense in place and not when we was thrown into the fire on a mid-season change and no bye week yet.

 

[007]

EDIT: May have misread your post. Thought you said INEPT. If you indeed mean adept then we have no disagreement.

The question is what does he have that he can work with? NOTHING. Patched together OLine that couldn't block a peewee team, 3rd and 4th string QB both freshman, and key WRs out. Compounded with the fact that GMac's offense is severely flawed for "working with what we have". There is only SO much you can do with that. I don't care if you brought in Chip Kelly or Chad Morris. They would struggle with these circumstances.

If you want to evaluate him on his game to game changes then do it when he has his own offense in place and not when we was thrown into the fire on a mid-season change and no bye week yet.

No malice intended CUSU, I just don't think you understand the point I was making.

 

[CUSU]

No malice intended CUSU, I just don't think you understand the point I was making.

If you are saying Lester is proficient, or adept, at working with what he has then I understand you fully. Just misread your post. If not, then I think it is too soon to judge that based on what I said.

 

[GoSU96]

Let's hope not. Lester seems adept at trying to game plan by using what he has. IF they go to 12 as a primary, players like Custis and Enoicy are going to train to add weight/strength. I think we would also see a few more TEs offered for 2015.

Here are the returning TE's on the roster:

Parris, Moore, Batten, Provo, Green. Then you have Enoicy, Custis, and Broyld can fit into the move TE role.

There doesn't need to be some change in direction in recruiting. The roster isn't devoid of players for either role.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Here are the returning TE's on the roster:

Parris, Moore, Batten, Provo, Green. Then you have Enoicy, Custis, and Broyld can fit into the move TE role.

There doesn't need to be some change in direction in recruiting. The roster isn't devoid of players for either role.

and Moore was a tweener for the tackle spot

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah, SU in 2012. Marrone and Hackett used two tight constantly. Big part of their offense. Still is in Buffalo. If Lester is an advocate there's no evidence based on what he has done to date. He uses the TE less than McDonald did. The run game has collasped, in part because of the issues with the OL and instead of bringing in TE's to help with the run blocking he has spread out more and widened the splits and run with no extra help and min protect in the pass game. Huge head scratcher there. Parris, Moore, and Custis have rarely seen the field the last three games.

He's an advocate because he mentioned it a half dozen times in interviews - he hasn't used it to date because he's running McDonalds system.

 

[GoSU96]

He's an advocate because he mentioned it a half dozen times in interviews - he hasn't used it to date because he's running McDonalds system.

You have a guy who talks about two tight ends as a base formation and he uses the TE less than a bubble spread guy who at least had them in his base spread formation.

As for running "McDonald's" offense, if that's that case what's with the two back three wide base? It's not like that was part of McDonald's offense much at all, and yet we have seen a huge dose of that.

Trust me, McDonald has two TE sets in his playbook.

And any idea where the Diamond formation was in McDonald's offense?

 

[Crusty]

Lester has used a TE is a loose formation and made him the primary check down. He ran it for an entire game.

The 12 is a personnel package and not a specific formation nor offensive scheme. A wide variety of base and spread formations are run from a 12 package.

Chip Kelly runs a lot of his offense from the 12.

Just too early to know what we will win up with.

 

[SWC75]

I think we'd do very well with 12 guys out there...

 

[Reilly35]

Yeah, SU in 2012. Marrone and Hackett used two tight constantly. Big part of their offense. Still is in Buffalo.

If Lester is an advocate there's no evidence based on what he has done to date. He uses the TE less than McDonald did.

The run game has collasped, in part because of the issues with the OL and instead of bringing in TE's to help with the run blocking he has spread out more and widened the splits and run with no extra help and min protect in the pass game.

Huge head scratcher there.

Parris, Moore, and Custis have rarely seen the field the last three games.

Has anyone really watched Shadeed-Moore this year. Kid can't block a breeze. Seemed like a lot of the time a potential big run play to the outside or a bubble screen as blown up because he either whiffed on a block or was beaten on a block. He needs to get much stronger.

 

[TheCusian]

You have a guy who talks about two tight ends as a base formation and he uses the TE less than a bubble spread guy who at least had them in his base spread formation. As for running "McDonald's" offense, if that's that case what's with the two back three wide base? It's not like that was part of McDonald's offense much at all, and yet we have seen a huge dose of that. Trust me, McDonald has two TE sets in his playbook. And any idea where the Diamond formation was in McDonald's offense?

Wow. You are well connected - how'd you get your hands on McDonald's playbook?!

Parris has been out or knicked up in every game since Lester's been OC. He's the best TE by far. So - there's you answer.