2023 NY Mets thread

[sutomcat]

Meet the new Mets: Scouting reports on the prospects acquired in trade deadline haul

The Mets have turned their eyes to 2025 and '26 and they expect a couple of their freshly acquired prospects to help by then. Who are they?

theathletic.com

MLB trade deadline grades for all 30 teams: Astros (A), Rangers (A), Mets (!) ... Yankees (D+)

From the winners to the disappointments, Jim Bowden grades each of the 30 teams on their moves — and non-moves — at the 2023 trade deadline.

theathletic.com

The Mets did a bold thing. They realized their initial strategy was a failure and went into their long term goal, of building a great farm system and becoming sustainably good that way.

I think they included cash to cover at least half of the traded players salary in every trade made. That cash counts against the salary cap and seems insane on the surface but including it improved the quality of the players they received markedly. They in effect found a way to use Cohen‘s money to buy prospects from other teams.

They will still go over the salary cap for the next couple of years but now, there is a path where by 2026, the contracts for the players traded away will be over. A bunch of other high priced veterans on the roster will also be gone and it is likely the Mets will be under the cap and flush with young talent.

There was no way the team could be successful long term spending $400 million per season on payroll. All the extra penalties the other owners added with the Cohen tax were too punitive to take long term.

It is really going to stink the rest of this year and I think next year we will be fortunate to be a .500 team. But by 2025, I think this should be a good team. Wish we got at least one top rated young arm as part of the sellout but they can trade one of the SS or OF down the road to help balance the roster. To me, the key thing for the winter is to get that great young Japanese pitcher (he is going to be 25) and start building the new rotation with him.

The Mets have a lot of good arms in the mid and low minors. Not sure any are likely high end starters in MLB right now. But a bunch could develop into one. Maybe a better pitching coach can get something out of Megill and Peterson. They haven‘t done well with Hefner.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The Mets did a bold thing. They realized their initial strategy was a failure and went into their long term goal, of building a great farm system and becoming sustainably good that way.

I think they included cash to cover at least half of the traded players salary in every trade made. That cash counts against the salary cap and seems insane on the surface but including it improved the quality of the players they received markedly. They in effect found a way to use Cohen‘s money to buy prospects from other teams.

They will still go over the salary cap for the next couple of years but now, there is a path where by 2026, the contracts for the players traded away will be over. A bunch of other high priced veterans on the roster will also be gone and it is likely the Mets will be under the cap and flush with young talent.

There was no way the team could be successful long term spending $400 million per season on payroll. All the extra penalties the other owners added with the Cohen tax were too punitive to take long term.

It is really going to stink the rest of this year and I think next year we will be fortunate to be a .500 team. But by 2025, I think this should be a good team. Wish we got at least one top rated young arm as part of the sellout but they can trade one of the SS or OF down the road to help balance the roster. To me, the key thing for the winter is to get that great young Japanese pitcher (he is going to be 25) and start building the new rotation with him.

The Mets have a lot of good arms in the mid and low minors. Not sure any are likely high end starters in MLB right now. But a bunch could develop into one. Maybe a better pitching coach can get something out of Megill and Peterson. They haven‘t done well with Hefner.

Next on the list… new coach and new front office leadership. Then let them figure out what they are going to do with Pete this offseason. His comments about not caring about the direction of the franchise and not reaching out to Eppler/Cohen makes me question how committed he is to staying with the Mets long term.

 

[Orangezoo]

So just a random thought but are they not rushing Mauricio because they could make a play to move Lindor next offseason as well?

 

[SWC75]

Mets deadline FAQ: What's the plan for 2024? What does being 'competitive' mean?

Looking to head to the Mets' free-agency approach, Pete Alonso's future and the post-deadline payroll outlook.

theathletic.com

 

[SWC75]

So just a random thought but are they not rushing Mauricio because they could make a play to move Lindor next offseason as well?

Whenever the Mets are in a tough spot and trying to avoid giving up a big inning, I say under my breath, "Hit it to Lindor!"

 

[OrangeFoo]

So just a random thought but are they not rushing Mauricio because they could make a play to move Lindor next offseason as well?

They would need to eat 200mm or so to get Lindor off the books next year and he would still be taking up the cap space. Lindor is a really good player… he, along with every other Met needs to stop trying to win the game with every swing though.

 

[sutomcat]

So just a random thought but are they not rushing Mauricio because they could make a play to move Lindor next offseason as well?

I was wondering about Mauricio not being called up too. Did some sleuthing.

His defense is a problem. This is something we should all be aware of and concerned about given what has happened when Buck has given Vientos starts at 3B.

Here are some Mauricio stats for just this season in Syracuse.

Position/Games/Errors
SS/25/6
2B/42/9
LF/23/3

On the positive side, he has played 5 games at DH and made zero errors at that position.

Disturbing at SS. Alarming at 2B . Disturbing at LF.

I think it is doubtful he will be a regular in MLB at 2B. Unlikely at SS. Defense is too suspect. 42 games is not a lot but 9 errors. Wow.

He will probably end up a fine OF but I think he still needs time there. Making the adjustment to MLB is a big deal under the best of circumstances. When you are in the midst of making the transition to a new position when you get called up, you are asking for trouble. I am anxious to see him play in NY too but it is probably a good call to wait the rest of August and see what he can do in September.

Agree Linder is essentially untradeable, much like Robinson Cano was. Brody is no longer a GM and no one else is going to be willing to take that contract. Now if his agent gets a GM job, maybe we have a chance to move him….

 

[SWC75]

I was wondering about Mauricio not being called up too. Did some sleuthing.

His defense is a problem. This is something we should all be aware of and concerned about given what has happened when Buck has given Vientos starts at 3B.

Here are some Mauricio stats for just this season in Syracuse.

Position/Games/Errors
SS/25/6
2B/42/9
LF/23/3

On the positive side, he has played 5 games at DH and made zero errors at that position.

Disturbing at SS. Alarming at 2B . Disturbing at LF.

I think it is doubtful he will be a regular in MLB at 2B. Unlikely at SS. Defense is too suspect. 42 games is not a lot but 9 errors. Wow.

He will probably end up a fine OF but I think he still needs time there. Making the adjustment to MLB is a big deal under the best of circumstances. When you are in the midst of making the transition to a new position when you get called up, you are asking for trouble. I am anxious to see him play in NY too but it is probably a good call to wait the rest of August and see what he can do in September.

Agree Linder is essentially untradeable, much like Robinson Cano was. Brody is no longer a GM and no one else is going to be willing to take that contract. Now if his agent gets a GM job, maybe we have a chance to move him….

I'm concerned about Brett Baty. He was supposed to be a major prospect but he's hitting .222 with 7HR and 53 runs produced in 300 plate appearances and seems a sub-par fielder. Of the "big four" prospects, Alavarez is the only one that's been impressive so far.

By the way, the Orioles uniforms stink.

 

[SWC75]

Gary and Ron were just having a discussion of the moves the Met made and they said that, since you can't trade draft choices, the Mets traded for top draft choices other teams had made.

Why has baseball held off on allowing teams to trade for draft choices?

 

[sutomcat]

I'm concerned about Brett Baty. He was supposed to be a major prospect but he's hitting .222 with 7HR and 53 runs produced in 300 plate appearances and seems a sub-par fielder. Of the "big four" prospects, Alavarez is the only one that's been impressive so far.

By the way, the Orioles uniforms stink.

Agree, Baty has been a big disappointment. If Escobar were still here, he probably would have been sent back to Syracuse to get his confidence back.

It is a big jump from AAA to MLB and some players struggle to make it. Some never do. I am confident he will hit in the bigs but it looks like we have a horrible hitting instructor and almost everyone in the lineup is struggling. It is a bad environment for a young player. Once Escobar got traded, he has had to go against lefties all the time (the Mets are horrible against lefties and face a lot of them) and that exasperated a bad situation.

Pretty amazing what Alvarez is doing in the same situation.

I am hoping Vientos is left at DH for the rest of the season. I think it is worth leaving Baty at 3B the rest of the season. Call up Mauricio and give him the LF job.

The season is lost. No one wants to watch DJ Stewart, Rafael Ortega and Danny Mendick fail every game.

Let the kids play and hopefully get to the point where they will all be productive players for 2024.

Also, I have seen enough of Starling Marte in a Met uniform. That was awful watching him butcher the fly ball hit to his right last night. Not the first time he has decided he doesn’t feel like going after a ball hit his way.

If he doesn’t want to play, fine. Release him. Ugh.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agree, Baty has been a big disappointment. If Escobar were still here, he probably would have been sent back to Syracuse to get his confidence back.

It is a big jump from AAA to MLB and some players struggle to make it. Some never do. I am confident he will hit in the bigs but it looks like we have a horrible hitting instructor and almost everyone in the lineup is struggling. It is a bad environment for a young player. Once Escobar got traded, he has had to go against lefties all the time (the Mets are horrible against lefties and face a lot of them) and that exasperated a bad situation.

Pretty amazing what Alvarez is doing in the same situation.

I am hoping Vientos is left at DH for the rest of the season. I think it is worth leaving Baty at 3B the rest of the season. Call up Mauricio and give him the LF job.

The season is lost. No one wants to watch DJ Stewart, Rafael Ortega and Danny Mendick fail every game.

Let the kids play and hopefully get to the point where they will all be productive players for 2024.

Also, I have seen enough of Starling Marte in a Met uniform. That was awful watching him butcher the fly ball hit to his right last night. Not the first time he has decided he doesn’t feel like going after a ball hit his way.

If he doesn’t want to play, fine. Release him. Ugh.

Looks like the two arms we got in the Escobar deal as well are really struggling...

 

[OrangeFoo]

Agree, Baty has been a big disappointment. If Escobar were still here, he probably would have been sent back to Syracuse to get his confidence back.

It is a big jump from AAA to MLB and some players struggle to make it. Some never do. I am confident he will hit in the bigs but it looks like we have a horrible hitting instructor and almost everyone in the lineup is struggling. It is a bad environment for a young player. Once Escobar got traded, he has had to go against lefties all the time (the Mets are horrible against lefties and face a lot of them) and that exasperated a bad situation.

Pretty amazing what Alvarez is doing in the same situation.

I am hoping Vientos is left at DH for the rest of the season. I think it is worth leaving Baty at 3B the rest of the season. Call up Mauricio and give him the LF job.

The season is lost. No one wants to watch DJ Stewart, Rafael Ortega and Danny Mendick fail every game.

Let the kids play and hopefully get to the point where they will all be productive players for 2024.

Also, I have seen enough of Starling Marte in a Met uniform. That was awful watching him butcher the fly ball hit to his right last night. Not the first time he has decided he doesn’t feel like going after a ball hit his way.

If he doesn’t want to play, fine. Release him. Ugh.

Article in the Post by Puma about Mauricio. Apparently Mets want to make him earn the promo vs calling him up just to see. Mauricio has checked out a bit since his buddies got promoted and they don’t want to reward that type of behavior. I can see that case… but I really hope they don’t waste the entire season with out seeing what he has.

 

[SWC75]

Agree, Baty has been a big disappointment. If Escobar were still here, he probably would have been sent back to Syracuse to get his confidence back.

It is a big jump from AAA to MLB and some players struggle to make it. Some never do. I am confident he will hit in the bigs but it looks like we have a horrible hitting instructor and almost everyone in the lineup is struggling. It is a bad environment for a young player. Once Escobar got traded, he has had to go against lefties all the time (the Mets are horrible against lefties and face a lot of them) and that exasperated a bad situation.

Pretty amazing what Alvarez is doing in the same situation.

I am hoping Vientos is left at DH for the rest of the season. I think it is worth leaving Baty at 3B the rest of the season. Call up Mauricio and give him the LF job.

The season is lost. No one wants to watch DJ Stewart, Rafael Ortega and Danny Mendick fail every game.

Let the kids play and hopefully get to the point where they will all be productive players for 2024.

Also, I have seen enough of Starling Marte in a Met uniform. That was awful watching him butcher the fly ball hit to his right last night. Not the first time he has decided he doesn’t feel like going after a ball hit his way.

If he doesn’t want to play, fine. Release him. Ugh.

The gets get to run the bases after the game in Syracuse tomorrow. I'd like to see the kids running bases during the game for the big Mets the rest of the season.

 

[sutomcat]

Article in the Post by Puma about Mauricio. Apparently Mets want to make him earn the promo vs calling him up just to see. Mauricio has checked out a bit since his buddies got promoted and they don’t want to reward that type of behavior. I can see that case… but I really hope they don’t waste the entire season with out seeing what he has.

Saw that article. Just posted the defensive issues he has. He is struggling hitting now too (though he just won a game with a clutch hit a couple of days ago).

It is a tough call. I was okay with keeping him down a couple of days ago but I guess I didn’t realize how painful it was going to be watching Stewart, Ortega and Mendick out there struggling.

I guess that article might have been intentionally leaked to light a fire under Ronny’s butt.

Hope he gets called up soon.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

Double swept. When you think the Mets have hit rock bottom, they say hold my beer.

 

[SWC75]

Double swept. When you think the Mets have hit rock bottom, they say hold my beer.

The SMets announcer said that the last 6 guys in the Mets' batting order today have played in Syracuse this year. I'm sure there's more to come. (See the SMets thread for my summary of today's remarkable game.)

 

[ScrabbCuse]

The SMets announcer said that the last 6 guys in the Mets' batting order today have played in Syracuse this year. I'm sure there's more to come. (See the SMets thread for my summary of today's remarkable game.)

I get it. They are supposed to be lousy after all these trades. You just never get used to it as a fan.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I get it. They are supposed to be lousy after all these trades. You just never get used to it as a fan.

I don't see how a lineup with Nimmo, Alonsono, McNeil, Lindor in the top half can be this bad. I get that the trades hurt the pitching depth on the team, but the real story is that since the 2nd half of last season this team just cannot hit with runners in scoring position. BTW this was also the same story that sunk 2021... those same four guys could just not hit with runners in scoring position. Remember the Met fired the hitting coach in 2021 mid-season. So looking back three years across multiple managers and hitting coaches we have a half season of good hitting under pressure and 2.5 years of poor performance.

Love Pete... but he is not David Wright or Mike Piazza. He hits way more HRs than anyone, but can he do it with the pressure on and can he do anything else? Wright and Piazza carried their teams, I haven't seen that from Alonso.

 

[sutomcat]

I don't see how a lineup with Nimmo, Alonsono, McNeil, Lindor in the top half can be this bad. I get that the trades hurt the pitching depth on the team, but the real story is that since the 2nd half of last season this team just cannot hit with runners in scoring position. BTW this was also the same story that sunk 2021... those same four guys could just not hit with runners in scoring position. Remember the Met fired the hitting coach in 2021 mid-season. So looking back three years across multiple managers and hitting coaches we have a half season of good hitting under pressure and 2.5 years of poor performance.

Love Pete... but he is not David Wright or Mike Piazza. He hits way more HRs than anyone, but can he do it with the pressure on and can he do anything else? Wright and Piazza carried their teams, I haven't seen that from Alonso.

So many at bats where he takes pitches down the middle, gets down 0-2 and then swings at an awful pitch out of the strike and strikes out or grounds into a double play.

It is disturbing how awful his plate discipline is at this point in his career. Maybe a better hitting instructor will help.

He has a week or two stretch where he shows some judgement and I think wow, maybe he is getting it. But then he goes right back to his boneheaded ways.

I am wondering if he is ever going to have discipline.

 

[SWC75]

I don't see how a lineup with Nimmo, Alonsono, McNeil, Lindor in the top half can be this bad. I get that the trades hurt the pitching depth on the team, but the real story is that since the 2nd half of last season this team just cannot hit with runners in scoring position. BTW this was also the same story that sunk 2021... those same four guys could just not hit with runners in scoring position. Remember the Met fired the hitting coach in 2021 mid-season. So looking back three years across multiple managers and hitting coaches we have a half season of good hitting under pressure and 2.5 years of poor performance.

Love Pete... but he is not David Wright or Mike Piazza. He hits way more HRs than anyone, but can he do it with the pressure on and can he do anything else? Wright and Piazza carried their teams, I haven't seen that from Alonso.

So many at bats where he takes pitches down the middle, gets down 0-2 and then swings at an awful pitch out of the strike and strikes out or grounds into a double play.

It is disturbing how awful his plate discipline is at this point in his career. Maybe a better hitting instructor will help.

He has a week or two stretch where he shows some judgement and I think wow, maybe he is getting it. But then he goes right back to his boneheaded ways.

I am wondering if he is ever going to have discipline.

I like Buck but I would be all for a new hitting and pitching coach. Maybe fielding and baserunning, too?

I'm still a big fan but Pete has been Pete 'Alonsono' too often.

 

[OrangeFoo]

So many at bats where he takes pitches down the middle, gets down 0-2 and then swings at an awful pitch out of the strike and strikes out or grounds into a double play.

It is disturbing how awful his plate discipline is at this point in his career. Maybe a better hitting instructor will help.

He has a week or two stretch where he shows some judgement and I think wow, maybe he is getting it. But then he goes right back to his boneheaded ways.

I am wondering if he is ever going to have discipline.

Mets have a really tough decision to make... I don't think Pete is worth $200mm based on performance alone, but not re-signing him sets up to be a PR disaster when the Mets are effectively already conceding on 2025. How Cohen handles the situation will say a lot about his management style. From everything I've seen the last month or so I predict Cohen follows the data and Pete does not make it to FA as a Met because he will be traded. And I fully applaud that move if they choose to go that route... my only concern is he ends up at home with the Marlins and tortures the Mets for the next 6 years after.

 

[sutomcat]

Mets have a really tough decision to make... I don't think Pete is worth $200mm based on performance alone, but not re-signing him sets up to be a PR disaster when the Mets are effectively already conceding on 2025. How Cohen handles the situation will say a lot about his management style. From everything I've seen the last month or so I predict Cohen follows the data and Pete does not make it to FA as a Met because he will be traded. And I fully applaud that move if they choose to go that route... my only concern is he ends up at home with the Marlins and tortures the Mets for the next 6 years after.

Tend to agree. The Mets seem unhappy with his stance so far. I assume he is asking for an obscene amount of money and the Mets are kind of getting the message out that this might not end well.

Is it serious and will it lead to Pete getting traded? It doesn't sound like Steve Cohen does a lot of bluffing.

Hope Pete gets things figured out with his hitting and things work out long term with the Mets. No doubt he is a passionate guy. Love his support of the police, fire department and his patriotism.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[SWC75]

Pete nearly falls down swinging at two pitches in the dirt, then watches two balls in the dirt, fouls one off and hits the next one 423 feet for his second home tun of the game. He has driven in all 5 of the Mets' runs and now has 33HR and 82rbi with 50 games left, (after this one) - in a bad year. He's got 86 hits: 40 singles, 11 doubles, 2 triples and 33 home runs. He had 30 doubles in 2019 and 27 each of the last two years.

 

[sutomcat]

Good move. He was absolutely lost in NY. Let’s hope he can find his mojo and swing in Syracuse.

Shocked at how badly he has struggled since Escobar was traded. You would think that would make him relax more. Nope.