54, 44, 54, 46, 55

[Cusefan0307]

yeah it's pretty clear, post Battle/Howard, JB has overcompensated to the point of... absurdity

I'll take this over that. I feel like people forget what it was like around here when we lost to Notre Dame scoring 49 points when they were missing half of their team.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Second half struggles combination of a few (obvious) things..

1- Other team adjusting. Not just through coaching, but player execution.
2- Athleticism and energy, especially in transition.

And scoring droughts on offense does not help. And the more this all continues, it becomes a "here we go again" situation.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'll take this over that. I feel like people forget what it was like around here when we lost to Notre Dame scoring 49 points when they were missing half their team.

One of the worst games ever. If we lost last night, this one would have been up there too in my book, considering the circumstances. Both vastly different games, but both brutal in their own way.

 

[Orangezoo]

Thank goodness IU is the NC State of the BIG.

This year has already got a pandemic weird to it.

Colgate beats us but sucks otherwise. Cornell 6-1. Lafayette beat Rutgers. Duke beats the best team in the country then loses to Ohio State. The Zags have to sneak past Tarleton. There are just so many weird results already.

We are 4-3 with one of the worst losses since Lemoyne yet it counted. We also have what could end up being two of best non conference wins since the last final four season. ( ASU will turn it around to at least be a Q2 win if not sneaking into a Q1).

It will be in a different order but if we beat the Hoyas and win at FSU we essentially will have the early season wins to lay claim to the path of an NCAAT team even if right now we aren't one when you watch us.

I like the 1-3-1 or whatever you want to call it look. It's at least something different. Similar to what WVU used to throw at us on John B when he had a team full of shooters lacking athletes.

 

[jdubs30]

I'll take this over that. I feel like people forget what it was like around here when we lost to Notre Dame scoring 49 points when they were missing half of their team.

Agreed. This team feels like it can get hot at any moment. That 2018 team felt like a 6pt 2nd half deficit was impossible to overcome.

 

[jdubs30]

Thank goodness IU is the NC State of the BIG.

This year has already got a pandemic weird to it.

Colgate beats us but sucks otherwise. Cornell 6-1. Lafayette beat Rutgers. Duke beats the best team in the country then loses to Ohio State. The Zags have to sneak past Tarleton. There are just so many weird results already.

We are 4-3 with one of the worst losses since Lemoyne yet it counted. We also have what could end up being two of best non conference wins since the last final four season. ( ASU will turn it around to at least be a Q2 win if not sneaking into a Q1).

It will be in a different order but if we beat the Hoyas and win at FSU we essentially will have the early season wins to lay claim to the path of an NCAAT team even if right now we aren't one when you watch us.

I like the 1-3-1 or whatever you want to call it look. It's at least something different. Similar to what WVU used to throw at us on John B when he had a team full of shooters lacking athletes.

Indiana right now is 6-1 and #31 in KenPom. The B10 doesn’t look particularly strong so I could see them having a pretty good and being a good win for us. I don’t love their guard play but they have enough shooters around TJD and Thompson to be contenders in the B10

 

[pearl31]

Agreed. This team feels like it can get hot at any moment. That 2018 team felt like a 6pt 2nd half deficit was impossible to overcome.

yeah I mean I suppose if I had to pick one or the other this team is more enjoyable to watch - but like NineOneSeven says above, it feels equally painful watching our defense become helpless in the 2nd half of every game

 

[pearl31]

one glimmer of hope from last night (and from the ASU game, too, I suppose) - the defense did create a whole bunch of turnovers, 26 total for IU - so if we can keep that going and just identify/cover 3pt shooters even just slightly better - we *might* become a serviceable defense

 

[jdubs30]

yeah I mean I suppose if I had to pick one or the other this team is more enjoyable to watch - but like NineOneSeven says above, it feels equally painful watching our defense become helpless in the 2nd half of every game

It is a terrible feeling in a close game when you feel like the other team is going to score every time down. But in 2018 it seemed like unless we had a steal/fast break we had no chance of getting an easy bucket.

 

[GoSU96]

Franks defense was awful. He let Indiana tie the game once because he was too busy lolly gagging back after someone on our team made a shot. Happy he made the free throws though.

And there were multiple possessions where he played solid defense. I love how people fixate on negative isolated plays.

 

[jdubs30]

one glimmer of hope from last night (and from the ASU game, too, I suppose) - the defense did create a whole bunch of turnovers, 26 total for IU - so if we can keep that going and just identify/cover 3pt shooters even just slightly better - we *might* become a serviceable defense

As our players get better in the zone more turnovers will happen. We still are very subpar athletically but you can still make the opponents make tough passes if you rotate correctly. All it takes is 1 offensive player to be indecisive or make the wrong pass for us get a turnover. It happened several times last night. I think Buddy had a few steals alone just stepping infront of that cross court pass. It had nothing to do with athleticism but he knew the rotations and where the open man was and beat the ball there. There’s no reason we can’t see more of that this year as these guys start understanding it better.

To me Cole looks like he’s almost there - he’s made some very good defensive plays but also has lapses. I think he’ll clean it up

 

[Cusefan0307]

And there were multiple possessions where he played solid defense. I love how people fixate on negative isolated plays.

I can't stress enough that we have to be in the correct position every possession because the lack of athleticism. That goes for everyone. Lazyness and gambling cannot happen if we have any chance of getting stops. I am happy he made the free throws, but I think some of us were watching different games. We need him to play the zone correctly because Edwards is going to get in foul trouble.

 

[Orangezoo]

To get to a level of what we hoped pre season we need three things.

1- Feed Jesse and make him a focal point every night to force teams to defend him with the same focus as Buddy and Cole.

2- Benny needs to get going. He did some off the stat sheet stuff last night. Still a long ways to go.

3- it's time to get Symir on the court a bit more . Joe shooting it well and Symir had two really nice takes one a bad offensive foul call that should have been an and 1. Let Buddy rest. Also that 1-3-1 with Symir at the FT line would work just fine.

Long ways to go for a team that is NIT bound until we improve.

 

[CardiacCuse]

the 1-3-1 was really good...not sure what happened to go away from bc as soon as they went back to the 2-3...Indiana made like 10 shots in a row.

I think they have to come up with some more wrinkles...definitely keep the 1-3-1 in rotation. or the 1-1-3 or whatver it was...

with the height this team has...there should be something better defensively.

if youre gonna let buddy iso...might as well go ----buddy-symir-benny-frank-jesse-----during that time.

but the second half feels ilike pre-planned stuff...how come the team usually does better in the first half when the whole rotation is being used but then gets torched in the 2nd when its mostly just the starters?

another trend is opponents getting career highs - kopp got his career high vs this defense. he looked like larry bird

i think it is important to realize that there is a correlation here - its not just bad luck or an accident! the scheme is allowing these players to go off!!!!

switch it up!

with the height advantage at almost every position - defense should be at least not a weakness.

overall, the goal for the defense should be to not give up WIDE OPEN SHOTS...the zone should be making teams make harder contested shots - not dunks and wide open 3 as it is.

what other schemes might work? i dont think the 2-3 will...though they are getting slightly better it seems.

 

[721Comstock]

yeah it's pretty clear, post Battle/Howard, JB has overcompensated to the point of... absurdity

Nah. The very year prior we were the exact opposite.

That Gillon/White crew could shoot the lights out, but couldn't defend their way out of a wet paper bag.

So JB went back to a defensive focus, which has served us well for many years.

This team was NEVER going to be good, or even average, on D.
Too many slow, unathletic dudes getting too many minutes.
I don't care if each of them is an Einstein-level hoops IQ , there's only so much smarts and savvy can do to overcome being meh athletes.

Jesse staying out of foul trouble will be the most impactful thing as relates to our overall D this season.

 

[Newhouser]

And there were multiple possessions where he played solid defense. I love how people fixate on negative isolated plays.

An isolated play that nobody would have noticed if Jimmy Dykes didn't point it out on replay.

 

[pearl31]

Nah. The very year prior we were the exact opposite.

That Gillon/White crew could shoot the lights out, but couldn't defend their way out of a wet paper bag.

So JB went back to a defensive focus, which has served us well for many years.

This team was NEVER going to be good, or even average, on D.
Too many slow, unathletic dudes getting too many minutes.
I don't care if each of them is an Einstein-level hoops IQ , there's only so much smarts and savvy can do to overcome being meh athletes.

Jesse staying out of foul trouble will be the most impactful thing as relates to our overall D this season.

I'd say '16-17 was an anomoly roster/lineup due to sanctions, defections, injuries - that lineup was in place out of desperation/default - this lineup is in place out of planning

 

[NineOneSeven]

An isolated play that nobody would have noticed if Jimmy Dykes didn't point it out on replay.

Was clear as day to me, and anyone actually watching and diagnosing, I would think.

 

[Cusefan0307]

An isolated play that nobody would have noticed if Jimmy Dykes didn't point it out on replay.

I was there live.

 

[jdubs30]

I'd say '16-17 was an anomoly roster/lineup due to sanctions, defections, injuries - that lineup was in place out of desperation/default - this lineup is in place out of planning

I almost feel like if JB does leave after this year (along with Jr and Buddy) that this was 100% always his intent. You can tell he really wants to win but he knows this team has a lot of flaws. I think he wants to enjoy the ride with his kids, and players who understand their role that seem coachable and won’t complain about PT (Symir, Joe, Cole). JB was PUMPED when Jimmy got his and 1 with about 5min left in regulation. You don’t see JB get pumped that often for a November game.

It’s almost like it was planned as a last hurrah for JB as opposed to constructing the best possible roster. It is what it is, but this team will still compete and win games. But if this was 10 years ago the Kadary/Joe situation would have been handled differently the past 10 months I assume

 

[br801]

I think JB has two options, neither of which looks promising at the moment.

#1 is to stick with Swider and Jimmy for 70+ mins between them, hoping that they can score enough to overcome defensive and rebounding liabilities.

The other is to find more time for Benny. He is the only conceivable path for a better defensive team. Largely because of his athleticism. Problem is that he seems unsure about the rotations, negating his athletic gifts, and on offense he is completely lost.

Not great!

Benny is getting 17.4 minutes per game, but just isn't doing much with it... 2.1 points, 1.4 rebounds, 2.4 shots. I think JB would love to have him in there for 20-25 minutes a night, but he needs to be more productive to justify it. He's the one guy off the bench who should be able to provide some offense. Hopefully, he'll figure it out at some point this season.

 

[Jake]

I think it is all about intensity. I don't think we have one bulldog on the team. They focus and build a lead, but then they get complacent. I don't want to use the word "lazy" because I don't think that's it. But, you need a vocal leader that gets on guys when they lose focus. We do not value every possession. We can win quite a few games if we just learn to keep the intensity level up for 40 minutes. It's hard to do when you are playing 38 minutes. You are bound to take plays off.

We could have the intensity of a thousand suns, it’s not going to help quicken Buddy’s feet, make Joe taller or make Jimmy and Cole jump higher.

Offensive rebounds are being grabbed at 11 feet, Cole and Jimmy max out lower than that.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Offensive rebounds are being grabbed at 11 feet, Cole and Jimmy max out lower than that.

Then boxing out is imperative