About our offensive system

[Finwad32]

Art Briles is idling, but his secretive offense is changing college football

Nothing really new, but, a good read. Sorry if this is in the OE section.

 

[PhatOrange]

Art Briles is idling, but his secretive offense is changing college football

Nothing really new, but, a good read. Sorry if this is in the OE section.

good read

 

[cuseinchina]

How long do we think this offense will be an advantage before it gets arbitraged away? I would think plenty long enough to get us back to the point where we are recruiting solidly. So that even if the advantage goes away to some degree or is so copied that it doesn't matter, we still are very competitive. Because at that long it will come down to quality of player s and coaches again. We gotta make hay while the sun is shining or whatever the phrase is, and get the recruiting solid and babers signed on for life

 

[HtownOrange]

If the defense can hold its own, like I believe it will, then the offense will be around a very long time. Look back at Spurrier's Gators (and many on here know I am no Spurrier fan), his offense was balls to the wall for its day. He generally had a decent defense to go with it and won when he had a very good defense. The basics of the offense have been around a long time.

Look at Jimmy Johnson's Hurricanes teams: Similar mentality.

Bobby Bowden's Seminoles in the 90's.

VATech when a Vick played QB.

My point is that teams that have great offenses will score. Period. This offense is a great offense.

Then, match a great offense with a solid to great defense and you have a contender. This is not too far from the Alabama, LSU, Pasqualoni-Syracuse models where great Defense was matched with solid to great offense. Look back over the years and the real contenders and the champions generally had good to great rated offense and defense with solid ST play.

What Babers is doing is simply taking a proven offense (remember, he really likes rushing the ball, too) and running a defense to ground. We saw the plan in action on Saturday. Execution was the best it has been all season and balance was fairly good. We can quibble over specifics (I like the RBs to have more rushing yards than my QB) and stress different facets of the game, but each game will have its own character that must be accommodated for to win.

I believe the balance between the offense and Defense must compliment each other with neither more important that the other. Beamer stressed D, especially with Bud Foster as DC, but never reached full potential with offense. Contrast Saban, solid defensive play but always a decent offense to match it. Spurrier was pro-offense and only when he had a good defense was he able to compete for a championship. Urban Meyer teams usually have very good balance. Too many of the Big 12 teams have very good offenses but seem to forget half teh game is played on defense as well.

All that said to say that this type of offense will be here for a while. The power run offense will not go away. At the CFB level, the option offense will not go away. They all work and are proven over time.

HYPE: Babers has observed this and he wants a balance. He has proven that this system works at lesser schools and now is applying the techniques to the top level. The kids believe in the system. He just upset #17. He has balance, he has plainly stated that he expects the defense to make stops and let the offense win the game. He expects the ground game to rack up yards. He expects the passing game to rack up yards. We are not "there" yet but we are on our way. We are not balanced yet as the O-line and RBs have not controlled the ground game. We have not solidified our defensive backfield. Each week we see improvements here and there.

 

[Millhouse]

How long do we think this offense will be an advantage before it gets arbitraged away? I would think plenty long enough to get us back to the point where we are recruiting solidly. So that even if the advantage goes away to some degree or is so copied that it doesn't matter, we still are very competitive. Because at that long it will come down to quality of player s and coaches again. We gotta make hay while the sun is shining or whatever the phrase is, and get the recruiting solid and babers signed on for life

there will always be addazios in the northeast. the rest of the country might get smart about this stuff but the people we recruit against will be stupid for a long time and will always have to deal with the elements where we won't

but we should've been doing this for the last 11 to 25 years

we should build a statue for the AD whose name i can't remember that was here for 20 minutes

 

[GoCuse08]

there will always be addazios in the northeast. the rest of the country might get smart about this stuff but the people we recruit against will be stupid for a long time and will always have to deal with the elements where we won't

but we should've been doing this for the last 11 to 25 years

I agree...I would love to know all the details of how hiring Babers went down. Was Ash really a leading candidate where we just fell ass backwards into hiring a coach with a modern offense or was the entire hiring process geared towards finding a coach with experience running a modern offense like this?

Ash and Babers seem to be polar opposites, so if Ash was indeed a leading candidate for the job makes you wonder what the job requirements actually entailed.

We ended up with Babers thank god...I don't think I would have been able to continue being a loyal fan if Ash was the man hired.

 

[nzm136]

The difference was that in the past (i.e. in the era of run-heavy schemes), great offenses helped create great defenses. Long, slow drives wear down the opposing defense, while giving your defense time to rest. All other factors aside, your offense got better as the game went on, but the other team's did not.

Also, slower plays and a continually running clock means that there are fewer plays in a game, and in the season. That helps the defense avoid injuries. Admittedly, the running clock aspect of this will lessen as our offense finds balance, and option offenses are MURDER on QB's.

But my basic point that this offensive system doesn't help the defense like past "cutting edge" systems did. Our points per drive has to be better than in the past for the Baylor system to break even. As of the last time I checked (after the UConn game), we were 7.5% worse than last year. I imagine that gap has widened, but we're only in the first year of a system that takes 2 years to implement, so I'm far from ready to throw in the towel. I just think that this board needs a sanity check.


......
Also, the article doesn't give meaningful stats. Points per drive, yards per drive, and time of possession per drive are far more meaningful than of and ypg.

 

[Millhouse]

The difference was that in the past (i.e. in the era of run-heavy schemes), great offenses helped create great defenses. Long, slow drives wear down the opposing defense, while giving your defense time to rest. All other factors aside, your offense got better as the game went on, but the other team's did not.

Also, slower plays and a continually running clock means that there are fewer plays in a game, and in the season. That helps the defense avoid injuries. Admittedly, the running clock aspect of this will lessen as our offense finds balance, and option offenses are MURDER on QB's.

This offensive system doesn't help the defense.

Also, the article doesn't give meaningful stats. Points per drive, yards per drive, and time of possession per drive are far more meaningful than of and ypg.

time of possession per drive? which way is that meaningful?

 

[HtownOrange]

This offensive system doesn't help the defense.

I will only differ on this point by arguing that high scoring offenses allow their defense to not carry the whole burden of victory or defeat. Babers credited the defense with holding Wake enough to win the game and took the blame for the offensive performance.

There are peripheral benefits, too. Our defense will have to be in better shape simply by practicing against the offense. Our D will not wear down as quickly as a slow, plodding offensive team's D will wear down.

 

[nzm136]

time of possession per drive? which way is that meaningful?

It indicates how much rest the defense gets. That's a huge issue w/ high tempo offensive schemes.

I said per drive rather than per game, because you can take a standard deviation of the times of drives to measure drive length consistency.

 

[nzm136]

I will only differ on this point by arguing that high scoring offenses allow their defense to not carry the whole burden of victory or defeat. Babers credited the defense with holding Wake enough to win the game and took the blame for the offensive performance.

There are peripheral benefits, too. Our defense will have to be in better shape simply by practicing against the offense. Our D will not wear down as quickly as a slow, plodding offensive team's D will wear down.

The flip to the burden argument is where is the emphasis being placed? One could argue that the defense isn't being asked to carry the load because the recruiting emphasis and practice emphasis is placed on the offense, and that is arguably more s product of the coach's philosophy than scheme.

 

[TheCusian]

I will only differ on this point by arguing that high scoring offenses allow their defense to not carry the whole burden of victory or defeat. Babers credited the defense with holding Wake enough to win the game and took the blame for the offensive performance.

There are peripheral benefits, too. Our defense will have to be in better shape simply by practicing against the offense. Our D will not wear down as quickly as a slow, plodding offensive team's D will wear down.

Don't forget the increase in reps.

 

[TheCusian]

The flip to the burden argument is where is the emphasis being placed? One could argue that the defense isn't being asked to carry the load because the recruiting emphasis and practice emphasis is placed on the offense, and that is arguably more s product of the coach's philosophy than scheme.

Huh?

1. The offense dictates that practice be run at top speed, sure. But why is this a bad thing? More reps for the D.

2. Recruiting? Really? How so? Top 2 recruits: one is a QB, one is a LB.

 

[Millhouse]

It indicates how much rest the defense gets. That's a huge issue w/ high tempo offensive schemes.

I said per drive rather than per game, because you can take a standard deviation of the times of drives to measure drive length consistency.

i think that stat is meaningful to identify coaches who don't get it. scoring TDs fast is good. punting fast is bad. meaningful stats point out ways you can improve. scoring fast is not something to worry about.

 

[GoSU96]

i think that stat is meaningful to identify coaches who don't get it. scoring TDs fast is good. punting fast is bad. meaningful stats point out ways you can improve. scoring fast is not something to worry about.

Only in the NFL against certain guys. Other than that, there's about a million more important things to worry about.

 

[Ish88888]

I agree...I would love to know all the details of how hiring Babers went down. Was Ash really a leading candidate where we just fell ass backwards into hiring a coach with a modern offense or was the entire hiring process geared towards finding a coach with experience running a modern offense like this?

Ash and Babers seem to be polar opposites, so if Ash was indeed a leading candidate for the job makes you wonder what the job requirements actually entailed.

We ended up with Babers thank god...I don't think I would have been able to continue being a loyal fan if Ash was the man hired.

Exactly! Hiring Ash to replace Shafer would have been the dumbest move in p5 hx!

 

[Finwad32]

FWIW - The only thing I ever heard about Ash's candidacy was that after the first or second round of interviews he was told thanks, but, no thanks. If it weren't for Frost's contract demands, he may have very well been the guy.

 

[upperdeck]

the length of the opp drives hasnt been an issue this year.. if anything UL got off the field faster than us.. score and get ahead. we have already shown that even without a running game we can run long play drives and do a decent job with possession.. if we actually could run just a little how much more would we have done this year? last week we did a good job on 3rd down , when we do a decent job of that we move the ball. if we can get 500 a game with no running game what is our upper limit?

it will be interesting to see what teams do as we see them the 2nd / 3rd time over next few years.

 

[bevosu]

There were definitely a few posters saying early on that Ash was Coyle's favorite. May have been pure speculation?

 

[Finwad32]

There were definitely a few posters saying early on that Ash was Coyle's favorite. May have been pure speculation?

He was definitely a highly thought of candidate, but, not necessarily for us. Again, I don't claim to know many or any details for that matter. The only thing I ever heard was 1) Frost 2) Babers and then Lincoln Riley. Riley was originally very high, but, I heard pushed us off quickly, I believe over money.

I was firmly convinced that the hire was always driven by one of the primary elements being offense.

Personally, I loved Campbell. Wasn't originally as high on Babers, but, I've seen the light. Couldn't be happier with our future.

 

[orangenauburn]

Frost hasn't done too bad ... Not sure how he would have played out here and I was a big Frost guy

Guess his Nebraska plans are on hold now?

 

[Millhouse]

Only in the NFL against certain guys. Other than that, there's about a million more important things to worry about.

we're on the same page about yards per play differential. this year babers is establishing the brand as he said in SI but he has improved that differential. i expect there will be a big difference next year. and i think our defense has been so bad most years that we shouldn't worry about tiring them out. maybe ohio state and alabama need to care about that, we don't

 

[Millhouse]

FWIW - The only thing I ever heard about Ash's candidacy was that after the first or second round of interviews he was told thanks, but, no thanks. If it weren't for Frost's contract demands, he may have very well been the guy.

oregon should hire him back as HC next year

 

[RF2044]

FWIW - The only thing I ever heard about Ash's candidacy was that after the first or second round of interviews he was told thanks, but, no thanks. If it weren't for Frost's contract demands, he may have very well been the guy.

There were definitely a few posters saying early on that Ash was Coyle's favorite. May have been pure speculation?

Hiring Ash would have been an epic fail, of grand proportions. We would have been discarding a defensive oriented, unproven coordinator who was in over his head as a head coach for another defensive oriented, unproven coordinator who is likely to be in over his head. The program needed someone who knew what the hell they were doing.

And thankfully, the increased ACC revenues enabled us to not have to chase another coordinator type who lacked head coaching experience hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

I don't know if Ash was ever a favorite--there was media speculation about that, but mostly [I'd say] because we were getting radio silence from the AD and nobody knew what they were thinking, as various candidates that had been proposed in the media were heading elsewhere.

Also think we dodged a bullet with Frost. Nothing against him, but being able to land a proven head coach with a generally intact staff was what our program needed, not a two-year stepping stone to somebody who may or may not pan out.

We got the right guy.

 

[Chip]

Guess his Nebraska plans are on hold now?

It was always the problem. He'd be coaching with one foot out the door, just waiting for the phone call.

Nebraska's record so far this year probably has him in bit of a depression. But it's balanced out by Oregon's. His other foot would be happy enough going back there for that head job.