ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[CU44SE]

The drama was caused by George K and his idiots botching the TV deal. To be clear, I think the ACC is a solid conference right now but I truly believe no matter what, the PAC 12 teams would have only gone to the ACC if they had no other P5 options. What are the ACC projections after 2026 by the way?

sutomcat has mentioned it a couple times in this thread. But below is a screen shot of projections through 2031. ACC will have a higher contract amount per team the entire Big 12 contract. Not to mention what the ACC network fees could have garnered in more markets would have raised that more.

Obviously we do not know what will happen in 2031. It’s possible Big12 signs a bigger contract. I just don’t see how that’s possible with both SEC and Big 10 coming due and no big time “flagship” programs in Big 12.

Big 10 expires - 2030
SEC expires - 2034 (signed this ESPN contact 4 years early)
Big 12 - 2031

 

[CU44SE]

There were several tweets and reports that the ACC had reached out prior and kicked around adding different amounts of teams. There was also a comment by I believe the ASU Prez or AD laughing about if he had to send teams to Syracuse.

I did see the interview. And the only tweets I saw after Colorado left were Friday afternoon where they said the ACC was kicking around the idea. But nothing ever materialized. The issue I have is Friday night is way too late for these conversations to occur. There were reports for the past year that the PAC was not getting a good TV deal. The conversations should have started then. Not when everyone is reported to be out. They were a year too late.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I know I am stupid. But I just looked it up and I still don’t understand what "pro rata" means. Can somebody explain "pro rata" so a dummie like me can understand it?

If the SEC were to add a team in a new market that has value, ESPN will increase the TV contract accordingly.

Since the SEC already has teams in Florida and South Carolina, adding FSU and Clemson doesn't move the needle enough for ESPN to up the payouts by a full share.

 

[CU44SE]

The reports of the ACC talking with the PAC have been going in for months, plenty of threads here on it. Seemed kinda crazy at the time

Random merger talk here and there. Random alliance talks here and there. But nothing ever materialized. From every thread or article I read, it was always going to be a possible joint merger that really sounded enticing but never grew legs. The ACC was there for a meet and greet. The Big 12 was there to date and wife someone up.

ACC was not aggressive enough. Expansion is a cut throat business. SEC took Texas and Oklahoma out of nowhere. Big 10 took USC, UCLA out of nowhere.

ACC botched 2003 and again this round. All you hear is ACC exploring Stanford and Cal now. And now 2 sets of meetings with AD’s and Presidents. Oh and now SMU. Nothing stealth and the ACC has so much in fighting right now, they can’t agree on a damn thing.

 

[HtownOrange]

No, wrong again. The ACC leadership and our school presidents failed to prepare and act and couldn’t agree on expansion moves, even though they had a year or two to figure it out. The rumors about the Four Corner schools and UW and Oregon have been out there for a year. But the ACC didn’t have a coherent and aggressive expansion plan because they couldn’t agree on a way forward after Texas and Oklahoma bolted the Big 12. That was the time to act, when the Big 12 was down to 8 fairly weak schools. It was certainly the time to act as soon as USC and UCLA announced last summer that they would leave the PAC 12. Big 12 commish Yormark had a vision and executed it perfectly. Our guy Phillips didn’t and sat idly by. And the ACC presidents sat on their hands while all these moves got made. The ACC could have stabilized by taking the Big 12 leftovers and moving into the Midwest or opening up a west coast flank before the Big 12 did. Instead, the ACC leaders did nothing.

The record shows there were discussions. My guess is that ESPN, one of the bidders last year for the ENITIRE PAC, politely pointed out to the ACC that the west coast conference didn't bring the value to warrant offering them a pro-rata share, meaning ESPN was NOT going to pay the pro-rata share. Recall, ESPN offered around $30MM/team for the PAC deal. If that was the ESPN offer, they were NOT going to offer the same teams another $14MM/team to play in the ACC.

USC and UCLA were the only money teams in the PAC, once they left, the offer dropped nearly $10MM/team causing schools to have wandering eyes.

 

[Willy75]

Would ACC look at Rice as a travel partner.

I think that’s a bridge too far right now; their academics are great but on field performance not so much ( no winning season since 2014). Also not the best team in their home market and about the same size as Wake.
Personally I think Tulane fits better.

 

[Hoo's That]

At that point, just add Tulane as well.

Our board had a post that SMU wants to bring Tulane with them.

 

[Hoo's That]

I thought UVA and VT were attached at the hip? What will the Virginia POLS do if VT is being snubbed?

The VA and NC politicians will stay out of it if Tech and NCSU have soft places to land, i.e. whichever superconference doesn't get UVa and UNC gets Tech and NCSU..

 

[HtownOrange]

Screw that.

I want Oxford and Cambridge.

Love the "outside the box" thinking, OX. Checks the travel partners box. Checks the academics box (helps boost the conference academics after Louisville was accepted, too). Checks the new markets box.

All flights will be about 6-8 hours, they can bring a few professors on each flight and hold classes. Think we can add 2-4 teams from the continent for the really east division of the ACC?

 

[texascpa]

I know I am stupid. But I just looked it up and I still don’t understand what "pro rata" means. Can somebody explain "pro rata" so a dummie like me can understand it?

Basically, enough money that it would keep everyone equal and specifically with the SEC contract, doing so without compromising the current payout. In other words, FSU would have to bring in $75M the first year (based on current TV contract). That ain't happening.

 

[WoadBlue]

The record shows there were discussions. My guess is that ESPN, one of the bidders last year for the ENITIRE PAC, politely pointed out to the ACC that the west coast conference didn't bring the value to warrant offering them a pro-rata share, meaning ESPN was NOT going to pay the pro-rata share. Recall, ESPN offered around $30MM/team for the PAC deal. If that was the ESPN offer, they were NOT going to offer the same teams another $14MM/team to play in the ACC.

USC and UCLA were the only money teams in the PAC, once they left, the offer dropped nearly $10MM/team causing schools to have wandering eyes.

The Pac 12 had 4 'money' teams: SC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington. The latter two are the reason that the ACC could have made money by adding them and another two to six Pac schools, as long as they were from among Cal, Stanford, Utah, Arizona St, and Arizona.

 

[WoadBlue]

Our board had a post that SMU wants to bring Tulane with them.

Oh yeah, the ACC can cure its problem of not having enough state Flagships and/or Land Grants with sizable football fan bases by adding more smallish private schools.

 

[Bayside44]

Random merger talk here and there. Random alliance talks here and there. But nothing ever materialized. From every thread or article I read, it was always going to be a possible joint merger that really sounded enticing but never grew legs. The ACC was there for a meet and greet. The Big 12 was there to date and wife someone up.

ACC was not aggressive enough. Expansion is a cut throat business. SEC took Texas and Oklahoma out of nowhere. Big 10 took USC, UCLA out of nowhere.

ACC botched 2003 and again this round. All you hear is ACC exploring Stanford and Cal now. And now 2 sets of meetings with AD’s and Presidents. Oh and now SMU. Nothing stealth and the ACC has so much in fighting right now, they can’t agree on a damn thing.

Considering the amount of mistakes the PAC has made over the last dozen years not sure I’d blame the ACC on this one.

 

[HtownOrange]

The Pac 12 had 4 'money' teams: SC, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington. The latter two are the reason that the ACC could have made money by adding them and another two to six Pac schools, as long as they were from among Cal, Stanford, Utah, Arizona St, and Arizona.

I would agree that OU and Washington bring more money than the other eight, but their offer is $30MM/each with $1MM increases annually. The B1G balked at paying the ma full share like USC and UCLA, and that was before the imminent demise of the PAC.

Besides, the two were not looking at the ACC, they clearly wanted the B1G or the PAC. Maybe the ACC would have been third, but like the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know.

 

[HtownOrange]

Our board had a post that SMU wants to bring Tulane with them.

At least the ACC would travel well to NOLA.

 

[MikeSU02]

Would take SMU. Dallas/FW will be the third largest metro area in the country in ten years.

Tons of money. Tons.

Add Stanford and Cal as well.

FSU can go. They go the SEC, they are mid. Same with the B1G. They’re part of the reason the ACC is second tier.

Think of Clemson without Dabo? Betting the house? Anyone?

 

[sabach]

Basically, enough money that it would keep everyone equal and specifically with the SEC contract, doing so without compromising the current payout. In other words, FSU would have to bring in $75M the first year (based on current TV contract). That ain't happening.

And it ain't happening with any other school not already in the SEC or BIG 10, except for ND. So if Sankey means it, the SEC isn't expanding anytime soon and FSU is going nowhere.

 

[tep624]

Would take SMU. Dallas/FW will be the third largest metro area in the country in ten years.

Tons of money. Tons.

Add Stanford and Cal as well.

FSU can go. They go the SEC, they are mid. Same with the B1G. They’re part of the reason the ACC is second tier.

Think of Clemson without Dani? Betting the house? Anyone?

If the approach is throw stuff at the walls and see what sticks as far as location, I’d take a serious look at UNLV.

 

[MikeSU02]

If the approach is throw stuff at the walls and see what sticks as far as location, I’d take a serious look at UNLV.

Dallas / FW thing is real. That isn’t a joke. The money would flow in from boosters.

If we needed a fourth, absolutely would take UNLV. NBA team will be there soon.

 

[UpstateSM]

SMU can be a very successful P5 program if they’re given the time

 

[tep624]

Dallas / FW thing is real. That isn’t a joke. The money would flow in from boosters.

If we needed a fourth, absolutely would take UNLV. NBA team will be there soon.

Yeah I mean gun to your head make a 5 team pod out or what is currently available:

Cal / Stanford / San Diego St. / UNLV / SMU

It’s decent for all sports already and it does give you SF / SD markets and 2 growing markets in Dallas and Las Vegas.

It’s not Clemson or NC but it’s something that gives access to multiple new time zones.

 

[HtownOrange]

SMU can be a very successful P5 program if they’re given the time

You may be right, but Rutgers has a copyright on that claim.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah I mean gun to your head make a 5 team pod out or what is currently available:

Cal / Stanford / San Diego St. / UNLV / SMU

It’s decent for all sports already and it does give you SF / SD markets and 2 growing markets in Dallas and Las Vegas.

It’s not Clemson or NC but it’s something that gives access to multiple new time zones.

IMO only, I think Clemson is toast once Dabo is gone.

Agree with your take.

 

[MikeSU02]

You may be right, but Rutgers has a copyright on that claim.

Rutgers doesn’t have the backing SMU does.

It’s also in NJ.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah I mean gun to your head make a 5 team pod out or what is currently available:

Cal / Stanford / San Diego St. / UNLV / SMU

It’s decent for all sports already and it does give you SF / SD markets and 2 growing markets in Dallas and Las Vegas.

It’s not Clemson or NC but it’s something that gives access to multiple new time zones.

Also, all the offense to Clemson and UNC, take me to Vegas and Dallas vs South Carolina or Chapel Hill.