ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[TerryD]

Well, the truth is Mark is the only good SU fan. That’s why we make him the front man and all of us hang out behind him.

That is an excellent plan.

 

[dasher]

I lived in Southwestern Pa. for 26 years, South Louisiana for 36 years and Southwestern Virginia for four years now.

I was a lawyer for 32 years and travelled all over the country. Mark is the only Syracuse fan I have ever met in person.

There aren't many of us. We only get 30k to hoop games.

 

[orangefog]

There aren't many of us. We only get 30k to hoop games.

I live in Florida and I see Syracuse gear all the time.

 

[RCDICK44]

I live in Florida and I see Syracuse gear all the time.

I live in Sebastian Fl and we have many Syracuse fans during the football and basketball season here and on the West Coast. This is Snow Bird country.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

SI: ‘The Next Wave Is Coming’: Expansion, Realignment and What’s at Stake For Power 5 Conferences

It's what we talk about in the offseason...

 

[Scooch]

SI: ‘The Next Wave Is Coming’: Expansion, Realignment and What’s at Stake For Power 5 Conferences

It's what we talk about in the offseason...

The worst case scenario for SU is that we end up in a non-power football league as things shake out. Obviously we've seen from UConn and Nova that hoops can survive just fine regardless of conference. Same for the non-revenue sports.

I'd prefer we stay in a power league, but if not, whatever. Our ceiling is pretty much the same regardless.

 

[javadoc]

The worst case scenario for SU is that we end up in a non-power football league as things shake out. Obviously we've seen from UConn and Nova that hoops can survive just fine regardless of conference. Same for the non-revenue sports.

I'd prefer we stay in a power league, but if not, whatever. Our ceiling is pretty much the same regardless.

Dome reno is going to look bad if football gets dumpstered.

 

[Scooch]

Dome reno is going to look bad if football gets dumpstered.

Why? It was critically necessary and decades overdue. The Dome hosts more than just 6 home football games a year.

Besides, football will always be an important sport at SU. It's not like we're competing for national titles in the current conference alignment anyway. After the seat upgrades we'll have a capacity of 42-44K and it'll be just fine.

 

[sutomcat]

Dome reno is going to look bad if football gets dumpstered.

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

 

[oldpinepoint]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

I tend to think this is what ultimately will happen. There will be another round of expansion for the BIG 10 and Sec and the rest will have to come together and figure something out. Current model sucks. I also tend to think that some schools in the Sec and big ten will no longer be in those conferences in 20 years mainly rutgers perhaps vandy.

 

[Scooch]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

Increasingly I'm convinced of the bolded. I have no doubt that FSU and Clemson desperately want into the SEC. And I could see a few other ACC schools feeling like they "have no choice" but to follow the money and depart for the B1G or SEC.

But there are others who might pass.

There will be enough schools out there who want to play high(ish)-level football that we could schedule. And we know all the other sports we sponsor will be just fine.

It's really not worth freaking out about being "left out". We'll be fine, one way or another.

 

[Willy75]

Increasingly I'm convinced of the bolded. I have no doubt that FSU and Clemson desperately want into the SEC. And I could see a few other ACC schools feeling like they "have no choice" but to follow the money and depart for the B1G or SEC.

But there are others who might pass.

There will be enough schools out there who want to play high(ish)-level football that we could schedule. And we know all the other sports we sponsor will be just fine.

It's really not worth freaking out about being "left out". We'll be fine, one way or another.

If things have to change I’d prefer SU in a football conference comprised of predominantly private schools and perhaps the service academies.

 

[orangecuse]

If you are currently in a P5 conference, and let's just say, on shaky ground, etc., the primary reason for those type that "might pass" or are "like minded like Syracuse" is because they don't/no longer have the wherewithal, etc. to play and participate in that arena. Plain and simple. If they had the means, et al to do so, they most likely wouldn't have been left at the altar, so to speak, in the first place, etc.

Not any different really than the VIP's, extremely wealthy, etc., they live and play in a world that most/the vast majority will never be able to do.

And, of course, just like so many not in that top 1%, etc., most will all still be fine, one way or another.

 

[Toga]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

We'd still get the semi pro 4 star portal guys who want to actually get on the field to show the NFL what they've got.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

If there is a split, it could get very messy for schools that are in that twilight zone of wanting to be semi-pro but also valuing academics.

 

[pattycuse]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

I agree with this.

Consider a "left behind" league of the following schools (I didn't put a ton of thought into this list, just a sampling):

Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Duke
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Central Florida
Virginia
NC State

That's not a bad landing spot for football or basketball, even if a few of the names fluctuate. Some historical rivals. Opponents near recruiting and alumni areas. Major media markets.

Personally I'd love the ACC to stay together in the long run. But if we do ultimately get left out in the cold (and I'm not convinced that we would), the remnants still make up an attractive league, with opportunities to play other attractive opponents out of conference.

 

[longtimefan]

I agree with this.

Consider a "left behind" league of the following schools (I didn't put a ton of thought into this list, just a sampling):

Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Duke
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
Boston College
Virginia Tech
Central Florida
Virginia
NC State

That's not a bad landing spot for football or basketball, even if a few of the names fluctuate. Some historical rivals. Opponents near recruiting and alumni areas. Major media markets.

Personally I'd love the ACC to stay together in the long run. But if we do ultimately get left out in the cold (and I'm not convinced that we would), the remnants still make up an attractive league, with opportunities to play other attractive opponents out of conference.

I expect Ga Tech, one of the Virginia schools, and possibly Pitt would be invited to join the (semi)pros.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The P12 schools that have a shot at the B1G should be pushing for the P12 to stay together with a 6 year TV contract/GOR. That will align them with the B1G TV contract expiration.

I cannot see the B1G leaving USC and UCLA all alone out West. So at least 2 (if not more) of those left behind P12 schools will eventually get an invite.

Washington has a good brand, a decent sized fanbase, is in the #12 TV market, and is AAU.
Oregon has a good brand, a decent sized fanbase, is in the #22 TV market, and is AAU.
Stanford has a decent brand, a small fanbase, is in the #10 TV market, and is AAU.
Cal has a poor brand, no fanbase, is in the #10 TV market, and is AAU.
Utah has a decent brand, a decent sized fanbase, is not in a Top 25 market, and is AAU.
Colorado has a decent brand, a decent sized fanbase, is in the #16 TV market, and is AAU.
Arizona has a good BBall brand, a decent sized fanbase, is kinda in the #11 TV market, and is AAU.

So why take yourself out of the B1G running by going to the B12, where they will be locked in 2 years longer? Especially when the B12 TV money isn't significantly better than the P12 TV money?

Maybe Arizona and Utah would since they are more B1G long shots. But does the B12 really want Utah? The rest of the schools should stick together and wait it out.

 

[Scooch]

I expect Ga Tech, one of the Virginia schools, and possibly Pitt would be invited to join the (semi)pros.

Perhaps. But the calculus has changed with NIL. It used to be easy math -- join a P5 league and reap the benefit of a far more lucrative media deal.

However, now a school needs to find a slew of deep pocketed boosters and collectives to fund NIL. There's an outflow of money (beyond the facilities that media helped pay for) that wasn't necessary previously.

I get the sense that NIL makes a lot of schools much more uncomfortable than the straight up greedy intake of media deals.

 

[orangepassion]

If it ends up with the B1G and SEC conferences splitting off to become semi pro leagues, there will be plenty of other schools that are like minded with Syracuse.

SEC and B1G schools can play for a semi-pro NC.

The rest will play for a true college NC.

Would it be that bad to get rid of the schools that created the insane facilities race, that pay coaches more money than the president and want open bidding for athletes out of HS?

Let them take the kids that don't want to go to class or get a degree.

This is what the SEC and B1G have wanted for years.

I am not sure the rest of the schools in the country feel the same way. I am convinced there is an audience to watch true college athletics and the schools that embrace that model will end up better off in the long run.

Their fans will win too. I see a situation where a lot more teams could conceivably win an NC in football, where the rosters are more stable, kids have a little more loyalty and less interest in making the most money as fast as possible.

This sounds great in theory, but schools will not want to lose out on the $$$$$

 

[sutomcat]

This sounds great in theory, but schools will not want to lose out on the $$$$$

Agree. They might not have a choice though.

It appears the SEC and B1G may be the ones making the decisions, with some input from TV networks.

 

[elimunelson]

Why? It was critically necessary and decades overdue. The Dome hosts more than just 6 home football games a year.

Besides, football will always be an important sport at SU. It's not like we're competing for national titles in the current conference alignment anyway. After the seat upgrades we'll have a capacity of 42-44K and it'll be just fine.

ive been saying for months

hoops will go to the big east and we'll be happier for it. our hoops program will recover there and be fruitful.

football i have a weird feeling ND is our sugar daddy. i could see a confederation of schools surround them for a quasi non conference/conference where ostensibly nd keeps their independence and bc/cuse/duke/pitt/wvu maybe/army/navy/wf become a second tier of bigger boy ivy league football with some tie in to bowls.

honestly this is how it should be. our football will have a path to prominence b/c of nd. mney wise it'll be there to support the program. we won't be in the rollerball conferences though

 

[elimunelson]

Perhaps. But the calculus has changed with NIL. It used to be easy math -- join a P5 league and reap the benefit of a far more lucrative media deal.

However, now a school needs to find a slew of deep pocketed boosters and collectives to fund NIL. There's an outflow of money (beyond the facilities that media helped pay for) that wasn't necessary previously.

I get the sense that NIL makes a lot of schools much more uncomfortable than the straight up greedy intake of media deals.

it's darkest before dawn.

money will flow upward. plenty of other kids will want to play football for free in a modified nd conf where a full ride to a syracuse or bc will be pretty damn good. if they can get a car dealership advertising deal on the side even better.

i hope our admin leans academic vs insanity. it'll pay off for us.

and ps, congress will have a say if enough mouth breather schols get left off

 

[elimunelson]

I'm not sure it'll end up being that extreme. There is a point of diminishing returns for SEC and B1G expansion. I could see them becoming 20-24 team leagues over the next decade, but that'd still leave a lot of schools out of the big 2.

Regardless, it's just not worth worrying about. SU is not a player here. We're 100% at the mercy of other conferences and schools. And the only thing it'll impact is football. Worst case scenario is that our football program is in the third-ish best conference in a sport where two conferences dominate. Whatever. All our other sports will be just fine.

your second paragraph is spot on.

i don't think what i laid out is extreme or bad mind you. i also don't really care at this point unless there's a scenario where football is dropped. that would sadden me. i happen to watch holy cross football as my son goes there. it's d1a. i enjoy it a tremendous amount. it is what it is.

i like game days i love my school and i want us to continue playing sports to enjoy those moments w my wife, friends, frat brothers etc. it adds soemthing to my life. whatever conf or division we end up in don't care at this point. it's fascinating and i'll post about it but i've lost interest in the zero sum game of being in big or bust.

 

[Bayside44]