ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

[Sherman20]

All the wrong people are in charge of college sports. People who only care about money and power. Gross and greedy.

 

[SmilinBob]

All the wrong people are in charge of college sports. People who only care about money and power. Gross and greedy.

Agree Sherm but this Nebraska guy is wrong. A lot of conferences expanded, including the PAC and ACC. Schools need to push the needle and the Big 10 is trying to hoard all they can.

 

[Cuse181]

Yup. Schools previously got into the Big 12 which we probably would have gotten into before them but we were locked in the ACC thinking we were safe. Since those schools are already in the Big 12, they aren't leaving and the open chairs in the Big 3 conferences are being taken by the other ACC schools that are ahead of us in the pecking order.

Can you imagine if these 60 teams break off and have their own March Madness. A Big Dance without SU or Duke or UConn. It's not so crazy to imagine seeing how football dollars literally run everything.

We may end up one day in a conference with SU, Duke, Wake, GT, Oregon State, Washington State, Cal, Stanford and UConn. The left behind conference with good academics, good hoops and mid major football.

That wouldn't be march madness. The whole point of the tournament is that not everybody is invited.

If you cut the tournament into 12 teams for basketball (top 20% of the 60), you would lose hundreds of millions of dollars in value. At best the schools would break even on the costs required to put the tournament on due to the massive downgrade in value you would see from TV partners. Not a single president (of a media company or a university) would advocate for changing the tournament structure to be smaller than it is today.

 

[sabach]

That wouldn't be march madness. The whole point of the tournament is that not everybody is invited.

If you cut the tournament into 12 teams for basketball (top 20% of the 60), you would lose hundreds of millions of dollars in value. At best the schools would break even on the costs required to put the tournament on due to the massive downgrade in value you would see from TV partners. Not a single president (of a media company or a university) would advocate for changing the tournament structure to be smaller than it is today.

The tournament would be all 60 of the teams in the 3 conferences.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I certainly hope this is not the future of college football.

Don't worry that makes very little sense. FSU isn't going to the B18 unless they can get AAU soon. And wouldn't they chose the SEC? Why would the B18 stop at 20? Because it fits into a tweet nicely? The SEC is not going to take Miami. Why would UNC and UVA chose the SEC? The B12 wouldn't take NC State over GA Tech, Duke, SU, and probably even USF.

 

[Cuse181]

The tournament would be all 60 of the teams in the 3 conferences.

That's not a "march madness" type tournament, that's just a rehashing of the regular season.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I can understand FSU fans going full kook as they have some of the worst disloyal fans. But kinda crazy how their admin has gone kook as well.

The SEC has no incentive to announce FSU before 2030. Their TV contract is through 2033 so they get nothing for bringing FSU into the league much earlier. Also FSU could potentially take Florida recruits away from current SEC schools. The only reason to take FSU is to keep them out of the B18 who…

Wouldn’t likely take FSU anytime soon. First they don’t fit the academic profile. Sure FSU can eventually get there but that is likely a few years away. Second the B18 TV contract runs through 2029 so they have no incentive to announce (not add) until a few years before that.

So why is FSU publicly acting like this when at best they aren’t likely to get an invite for another 5+ years, even if they figure a way out of the GOR?

 

[Toga]

Whew. So close. Idiots.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Gee you mean they couldn't come up with 500 million plus in a few weeks, shocking...

 

[WoadBlue]

Because the fight now is to be a national conference.

MSG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anywhere else for a conference that is the east coast for a conference bball tourney.

The conference has to be all in to compete or else we're sitting ducks. Which may be fine. Hey, let's play it out and then just see where the current takes us.

But otherwise, right now, the teams most likely to leave are blocking a national expansion.

If you can 100% promise me we have a safe landing, sure, I'll let it go. If not, then I don't see how letting FSU, Clemson, UNC and UNC's little cousin dictate our future is a good thing.

We need to be done appeasing the North Carolina mafia here. We are either a conference that wants to be national or not. And if not, that's fine. But then let's be real about what future expectations should be. Because they are not in the best interest of Syracuse unless there is a landing spot already promised.

How can Stanford and Cal help the ACC? Without Oregon and Washington, or SC and UCLA, their TV drawing power is nil. SMU's TV drawing power is even worse, at eloast right now. For SMU to matter fort the ACC psiirvley, the league would need to add other TX teams. The push to save Cal and Stanford is just another bleeding heart notion that could be made safely one of the two super powerful leagues but not the ACC.

In adding, what the ACC requires now are schools that have privet TV drawing power for football above the. the middle of the ACC and, preferably, also have average attendance above averages above the middle of the ACC. WVU meets. Cincy is at least close, s is UCF. But ll 3 have Big 12 GOR now.

SMU + TCU + Baylor +TTU would be a very sound 4 team addition, but that GOR for 3 of them would prevent it. The ACC should have acted to get in to TX in a big way before the Big 12 acted to save itself.

 

[WoadBlue]

I certainly hope this is not the future of college football.

Considering that the ACC has totaled more TV viewers for football than the Big 12 did with OU and Texas (but they totaled more pr game), if ESPN has decided to shore up the Big 12 to be the 3rd of 3 rather than the ACC, then my earnest prayer is that all of Disney die quickly.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

How can Stanford and Cal help the ACC? Without Oregon and Washington, or SC and UCLA, their TV drawing power is nil. SMU's TV drawing power is even worse, at eloast right now. For SMU to matter fort the ACC psiirvley, the league would need to add other TX teams. The push to save Cal and Stanford is just another bleeding heart notion that could be made safely one of the two super powerful leagues but not the ACC.

In adding, what the ACC requires now are schools that have privet TV drawing power for football above the. the middle of the ACC and, preferably, also have average attendance above averages above the middle of the ACC. WVU meets. Cincy is at least close, s is UCF. But ll 3 have Big 12 GOR now.

SMU + TCU + Baylor +TTU would be a very sound 4 team addition, but that GOR for 3 of them would prevent it. The ACC should have acted to get in to TX in a big way before the Big 12 acted to save itself.

There is zero need to have more than two schools max from the same state. The B12 has made mistakes IMO adding Houston, Utah, and ASU.

Short term TV markets and new states still matter. So yes adding SF/Cali and Dallas/Texas will help T1 and with the ACCN.

Long term it puts the ACC ahead of the B12 and will help if the ACC has any chance of raiding the B12. Worst case adding Stanford, Cal, SMU offers the left behinds a better alternative (staying put) to the B12.

If the ACC can get pro rata for Stanford and Call, and SMU will play for free, it is a no brainer to add the three.

Stop thinking the ACC can catch the P2. At this point it is about survival.

 

[MikeSU02]

 

[MikeSU02]

How can Stanford and Cal help the ACC? Without Oregon and Washington, or SC and UCLA, their TV drawing power is nil. SMU's TV drawing power is even worse, at eloast right now. For SMU to matter fort the ACC psiirvley, the league would need to add other TX teams. The push to save Cal and Stanford is just another bleeding heart notion that could be made safely one of the two super powerful leagues but not the ACC.

In adding, what the ACC requires now are schools that have privet TV drawing power for football above the. the middle of the ACC and, preferably, also have average attendance above averages above the middle of the ACC. WVU meets. Cincy is at least close, s is UCF. But ll 3 have Big 12 GOR now.

SMU + TCU + Baylor +TTU would be a very sound 4 team addition, but that GOR for 3 of them would prevent it. The ACC should have acted to get in to TX in a big way before the Big 12 acted to save itself.

if they payout to each team is, at worst, the same and the GOR stays in tact? It reduces the power of those teams looking to leave, enters into a state that is highly populated with top athletes, enters into the NorCal territory with at least one brand in Stanford that has good viewership and is wildly economically stable as a university (I mean, the operational budget from the endowment alone per year is more than most schools' total endowment) and, if anyone still gives a hoot about academics, gives all ACC universities access to Cal and Stanford partnerships / resources that should be wildly beneficial.

I would also take SMU, TCU, Baylor and TTU as well.

I get that this isn't an ideal solution. It may not even be a very good solution. But if the goal is to compete at a national level, regional conferences are out the window and there are only a handful of teams that are left.

Now, if I were UNC and very confident I would end up in the B1G or whatever, I'd be happy to just cash the checks I had until it was time to cut bait.

I don't hate Charlotte or Greensboro or North Carolina. In fact, I quite like the state as a whole and I like playing Duke and North Carolina in sports.

But, in my very limited knowledge opinion, it's either go time to become a national conference or it's time to just play out the string and everyone cashes the checks we get because of the GOR and start looking for where we'll be in 7-8 years or whatever it is.

And to be clear, I don't hate any program for looking out for #1. That's where we are.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

if they payout to each team is, at worst, the same and the GOR stays in tact? It reduces the power of those teams looking to leave, enters into a state that is highly populated with top athletes, enters into the NorCal territory with at least one brand in Stanford that has good viewership and is wildly economically stable as a university (I mean, the operational budget from the endowment alone per year is more than most schools' total endowment) and, if anyone still gives a hoot about academics, gives all ACC universities access to Cal and Stanford partnerships / resources that should be wildly beneficial.

I would also take SMU, TCU, Baylor and TTU as well.

I get that this isn't an ideal solution. It may not even be a very good solution. But if the goal is to compete at a national level, regional conferences are out the window and there are only a handful of teams that are left.

Now, if I were UNC and very confident I would end up in the B1G or whatever, I'd be happy to just cash the checks I had until it was time to cut bait.

I don't hate Charlotte or Greensboro or North Carolina. In fact, I quite like the state as a whole and I like playing Duke and North Carolina in sports.

But, in my very limited knowledge opinion, it's either go time to become a national conference or it's time to just play out the string and everyone cashes the checks we get because of the GOR and start looking for where we'll be in 7-8 years or whatever it is.

And to be clear, I don't hate any program for looking out for #1. That's where we are.

Re Texas

I think it is only worth having 2 schools. IMO Texas Tech given its size and quality teams is the best. Houston has the most potential though. Can they reach it? TCU has a small but very good fanbase. That makes them a player. SMU’s money makes them one as well but it is a little risky. Baylor has good sports but long term I think they are last.

I think it is easier to take SMU now and add one other later than it will be to not get into Texas now and get 2 later.

 

[Cusefan69]

I don't necessarily hate anyone in the ACC (well maybe FSU). Here's the thing, if your objective is to bail in 10 years, then step aside and cash your checks we give you and let those who want to try something to help the conference do that. I have a problem with the 4 teams voting "No" because they in essence no longer give a schlitz. One caveat being if a couple of the no votes are trying to divvy up maybe bowl game payouts better as an outcome and in good faith are negotiating then that is different.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't necessarily hate anyone in the ACC (well maybe FSU). Here's the thing, if your objective is to bail in 10 years, then step aside and cash your checks we give you and let those who want to try something to help the conference do that. I have a problem with the 4 teams voting "No" because they in essence no longer give a schlitz. One caveat being if a couple of the no votes are trying to divvy up maybe bowl game payouts better as an outcome and in good faith are negotiating then that is different.

If a team won't be here long term shouldn't they abstain? Why hurt the left behinds?

 

[HtownOrange]

Yup. Schools previously got into the Big 12 which we probably would have gotten into before them but we were locked in the ACC thinking we were safe. Since those schools are already in the Big 12, they aren't leaving and the open chairs in the Big 3 conferences are being taken by the other ACC schools that are ahead of us in the pecking order.

Can you imagine if these 60 teams break off and have their own March Madness. A Big Dance without SU or Duke or UConn. It's not so crazy to imagine seeing how football dollars literally run everything.

We may end up one day in a conference with SU, Duke, Wake, GT, Oregon State, Washington State, Cal, Stanford and UConn. The left behind conference with good academics, good hoops and mid major football.

Respectfully,if FSU can't break the GOR, do yo honestly believe SU can? We don't have any proof SU would have landed in the Big 12.

 

[shantydaze]

If you asked the typical person on the street in Syracuse what his/her favorite football team is, most will answer Bills, Giants, Jets, Patriots, etc...

Not many people would pick SU. Especially since most of the people living in Syracuse never attended SU and have no connection.

I assume it's the same all over the Northeast.

I assume this is true in whatever area has an NFL team. If you asked this same question in Wisconsin (outside of Madison), the answer would be the Packers. If you asked this question in Chicago, it would be the Bears. There are no NFL teams in Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma, or Nebraska, which is why College Football rules in those states.

The second point is also very important - never attended, no connection with the school. The vast majority of University of Wisconsin football fans did not attend the school, but being from the state provides them with a connection.

 

[shantydaze]

. . .Their fans hate the idea that their hockey teams have to play in the B1G because the hockey conferences are mandated by the NCAA to be regional and they were forced to leave Hockey East.

I have never heard this and, if true, why didn't ND join the B1G when CCCH disbanded amid the B1G hockey conference starting? Also, I do not think the NCAA has the power to mandate a school join a conference or mandate a conference accept a school into the conference.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Annnnnd...FSU is still here. What a shock!!! Fricken' jerks.

 

[Hoo's That]

I have never heard this and, if true, why didn't ND join the B1G when CCCH disbanded amid the B1G hockey conference starting? Also, I do not think the NCAA has the power to mandate a school join a conference or mandate a conference accept a school into the conference.

Their joining Hockey East and the ACC is geared to the idea that the bulk of ND alums are on each coast and Chicago, not spread throughout the Midwest. More of their alums can see them play if their away games are in the ACCs footprint than can see them in Madison, Lincoln, or Bloomington, for that matter. There are just 3 Eastern venues in the B1G, State College, College Park, and Piscataway. There are 4 ACC venues in NC alone. As far as the hockey realignment is concerned, apparently they did have that power for hockey alone. I guess the schools gave them the permission they required to act. They did not leave Hockey East voluntarily.

 

[TerryD]

Their joining Hockey East and the ACC is geared to the idea that the bulk of ND alums are on each coast and Chicago, not spread throughout the Midwest. More of their alums can see them play if their away games are in the ACCs footprint than can see them in Madison, Lincoln, or Bloomington, for that matter. There are just 3 Eastern venues in the B1G, State College, College Park, and Piscataway. There are 4 ACC venues in NC alone. As far as the hockey realignment is concerned, apparently they did have that power for hockey alone. I guess the schools gave them the permission they required to act. They did not leave Hockey East voluntarily.

ND voluntarily left Hockey East.

Jack Swarbrick complained about the difficulty in traveling to out of the way Hockey East schools in New England.



"Notre Dame is preparing to leave Hockey East for the Big Ten in the 2017-18 season, sources told USCHO on Tuesday.

The school joined Hockey East three seasons ago in the massive conference realignment for western schools.

That coincided with the formation of the Big Ten, which has been at six teams but is poised to add a seventh.

"Playing those kinds of old foes on a more regular basis has sparked enthusiasm for the move at Notre Dame, senior associate athletic director Tom Nevala told the Star Tribune.

“There is great excitement because we’re renewing the rivalries that we cherish, and it will be great to go to those campuses on a regular basis,” he told the newspaper.

Also, sources confirmed that travel within the league was a major decision point for Notre Dame. In Hockey East, the Irish have to travel a much greater total distance over the length of the season than any other school."

Sources: Notre Dame leaving Hockey East for Big Ten in 2017 - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Notre Dame is preparing to leave Hockey East for the Big Ten in the 2017-18 season, sources told USCHO on Tuesday. The school joined Hockey East three

www.uscho.com

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/15/college-football-super-league/