Are there any Pro-Shafer's left?

[OburgOrange]

I'm Pro-Shafer. I just don't want him as the HC any longer

 

[CuseOnly]

i was talking more during the season than preseason injuries or dismissals

It all adds up. Starting with 85 Scholly players and you lose 6 down to 79, then lose a few that don't qualify and then lose 7-8 during the length of the season brings you down to almost FCS levels for available players.

 

[Chris02M]

It all adds up. Starting with 85 Scholly players and you lose 6 down to 79, then lose a few that don't qualify and then lose 7-8 during the length of the season brings you down to almost FCS levels for available players.

a few of those injuries during the year didnt happen until 10/31 when season was pretty much over already

 

[Crusty]

Not to me. The team we out in the field doesn't look anything like what was expected. Some of these kids were projected to be skout team players or maybe just specials.

On the game yesterday, they mentioned 68% of our offense has come from freshman. We had 2 freshman at DT. And the only non freshman defensive backfield was a sophomore.

Very young and a ton of losses preseason and in season.

BUT, about the same injuries as anyone else. Some of these kids are out there because others are not better. Whigham is an example.
Do you entertain the possibility that we just aren't very good?

 

[GoSU96]

It really isn't loyalty.

As I said, if I thought we were going to go out and get a proven success at the P5 level, I'd be all-in.

I just think that we are, once again, going to do it on the cheap and hire some mid-major coordinator and hope that it works out.

Shafer hasn't helped himself with some of the in-game blunders but go back to 2011, especially, and re-read the posts about Marrone - lots of similar complaints.

The injury situation has been horrific.

I'm just not convinced that Shafer is ready for the scrap heap if we are going to go out and replace him with someone who is not a clear upgrade.

Lots of posters who are now calling for Shafer's scalp were fawning all over Shafer and calling him a great hire.

Shows how much those posters knew...

When has this program EVER hired a mid major coordinator?

Mac was an NFL position coach, but before that had been a lower division head coach for 6 years.

P was an internal hire, but was a lower division HC before coming to SU and I think took a lot of of Mac's plate.

Robinson as bad as he was, was a long time NFL coordinator.

Marrone had a great resume, worked under a lot of excellent coaches and big schools and in the NFL.

Shafer was an internal hire, 7 seasons as D-1 major coordinator, had worked under two of the best turnarounds under Harbaugh and Marrone and saw how not to do it under Rich Rod at Michigan.

Don't see a mid major hire anywhere in that list.

 

[Crusty]

It all adds up. Starting with 85 Scholly players and you lose 6 down to 79, then lose a few that don't qualify and then lose 7-8 during the length of the season brings you down to almost FCS levels for available players.

Isn't that why the limit is 85? Do you really think we are all that different than other teams?

The team that just ate our lunch had more younger players in their 2 deep than we did and they had key players out injured.

We have to stop making excuses like a bunch of losers. Oh wait..that is what we have become.

 

[rrlbees]

i was talking more during the season than preseason injuries or dismissals

I know

 

[Scooch]

I don't really agree. I don't look at just the in season injuries but also preseason injuries, the dismissals, and other losses. From the end of last season, this team isn't close to what we thought it would be from a personnel standpoint. Lost top 3 QBs. Hunt, Dungey, Long. Lost too TE. Moore. Lost Broyld. Even lost Lewis some. Lost a few on the DL. Johnson, Williams and a couple that escape memory. Lost Arciniega Lost our best performing LB in Bennett Have had to play a real young DB. Even a couple of those like Winfield and Ellison got hurt. Williams has been hurt. We've been playing a soph and 3 freshman. Other players have been out a game or two as expected. Without having a fully stocked quality 1-85 depth chart, we've played short handed all year. QB is the most important position on the field IMO. We've used 4, lost 3 and have used a walk on a lot. We've done a lot of patch work this year.

Are we going to do that same exercise for USF, UVA, Pitt, Louisville and NC State?

Because unfortunately there is another team on the other side of the field when we play.

I mean, it sucks to lose players, but isn't it a staff's job to figure out how to overcome it? At least to the tune of eeking out one more win than last year's debacle?

 

[GoSU96]

I don't really agree. I don't look at just the in season injuries but also preseason injuries, the dismissals, and other losses. From the end of last season, this team isn't close to what we thought it would be from a personnel standpoint.

Lost top 3 QBs. Hunt, Dungey, Long.
Lost too TE. Moore.
Lost Broyld. Even lost Lewis some.
Lost a few on the DL. Johnson, Williams and a couple that escape memory.
Lost Arciniega
Lost our best performing LB in Bennett
Have had to play a real young DB. Even a couple of those like Winfield and Ellison got hurt. Williams has been hurt. We've been playing a soph and 3 freshman.
Other players have been out a game or two as expected.

Without having a fully stocked quality 1-85 depth chart, we've played short handed all year. QB is the most important position on the field IMO. We've used 4, lost 3 and have used a walk on a lot.

We've done a lot of patch work this year.

Add in Eskridge, Sloan, Parris has missed the last two and a couple of games earlier this year, Knapp, Ward/

 

[rrlbees]

BUT, about the same injuries as anyone else. Some of these kids are out there because others are not better. Whigham is an example. Do you entertain the possibility that we just aren't very good?

Whigham lost his job because he did not play well. But he's the only one in that situation. Of course I entertain the possibility we aren't very good. Look at the record. I just don't agree at all that this stuff has happened to every other school, especially when we know we aren't there with 1-85. Just look at that list I put together. And I missed a couple.

 

[rrlbees]

Are we going to do that same exercise for USF, UVA, Pitt, Louisville and NC State? Because unfortunately there is another team on the other side of the field when we play. I mean, it sucks to lose players, but isn't it a staff's job to figure out how to overcome it? At least to the tune of eeking out one more win than last year's debacle?

Sure, do the other teams.

 

[rrlbees]

Add in Eskridge, Sloan, Parris has missed the last two and a couple of games earlier this year, Knapp, Ward/

Forgot about Knapp and Sloan or even Roberts.

 

[Scooch]

Sure, do the other teams.

Pass.

 

[GoSU96]

Whigham lost his job because he did not play well. But he's the only one in that situation. Of course I entertain the possibility we aren't very good. Look at the record. I just don't agree at all that this stuff has happened to every other school, especially when we know we aren't there with 1-85. Just look at that list I put together. And I missed a couple.

There were 45 1st and 2nd year players on the roster 2012, by the beginning of this season there were 20 left, and 19 were on the two deep. Only one kid, Jacob Green, wasn't in the rotation on offense or defense.

Of those 45, only 10 completed 4 years of playing time. 15 were early departures.

And that doesn't count the underclassmen that have left the program in the last couple of classes.

For a program that develops players those 15 are a big hole, that's why this team is so "young".

 

[SUbear]

I know

I do not rate Shafer by wins or losses nor by injuries or lack thereof. I rate him by his performance in hiring staff, on field decision making, maintaining composure on the sidelines, and is the team showing progress in playing both as a group and individually. Unfortunately, he falls short in every measurable as a head coach. That is why I believe he should be replaced. Injuries do not and should not enter into his job evaluation.

 

[Alsacs]

So . . . . . . said three stars, ESPN two, and 2 4 7 four.

Definatly can draw conclusions from that info.

I have no problem with this but The Cusian wants to come at me so it annoys me that I have to waste time. What I said was right. He should have said only 1 had him at 4 star but he wanted the fight which annoys the hell out of me and causes the comebacks.

 

[CusefanATL]

Just interested if there is anybody left in his corner? Not sure if this would work better being an anonymous poll or not, but all the 1 more year for Shafer's please stand up.

I'm not interested in the i'm ok either way crowd. I want to know if there are anymore 100% Shafer is the answer people?

yes. Im still pro-shafer. This year is throw away. Momentum has swung the wrong way. The snowball Grob has talked about - happened this year in the wrong way.

As I said before the CLemson game. He should get 4 years. I thought that 2 weeks ago, yesterday, today and I will still think it tomorrow and on Sunday.

Next year, he wins he gets an extension. He loses, he loses his job. If a few recruits don't like that, oh well.

Frank Beamer did just fine with his career. It is tough to turn around a program. But consistency is key. Just because a coach has 2 bad seasons doesnt mean that his career won't work out.

 

[Crusty]

Whigham lost his job because he did not play well. But he's the only one in that situation. Of course I entertain the possibility we aren't very good. Look at the record. I just don't agree at all that this stuff has happened to every other school, especially when we know we aren't there with 1-85. Just look at that list I put together. And I missed a couple.

Re Whigham, I was responding to the statement that players projected to be on the scoutteam were playing.

Anyway, these injuries are not exactly devastating when you analyze them. Boston College will have at least 10 out for our game and we will have about 16 some of which are players below the 2 deep.

Lost top 3 QBs. Hunt, Dungey, Long. Does this really count as three? I don't think so especially with the emergence of Mahoney.

Lost too TE. Moore. Not for very long.
Lost Broyld. Even lost Lewis some. Broyld had already slipped below the 2 deep and Lewis was not out for very long.

Lost a few on the DL. Johnson, Williams and a couple that escape memory. Don't know how many games they missed.
Lost Arciniega - valid but not out for whole season.
Lost our best performing LB in Bennett late in the season.

Have had to play a real young DB. Even a couple of those like Winfield and Ellison got hurt. Williams has been hurt. We've been playing a soph and 3 freshman. Other teams have been playing underclassmen as well and in some cases more than us. The youth excuse only goes so far.

Other players have been out a game or two as expected. As with every team.

Last year was valid IMO. This year we are not really any worse off than other teams. Hell, home many backup QB's have we played this year?

 

[CuseOnly]

Isn't that why the limit is 85? Do you really think we are all that different than other teams?

The team that just ate our lunch had more younger players in their 2 deep than we did and they had key players out injured.

We have to stop making excuses like a bunch of losers. Oh wait..that is what we have become.

A limit of 85 is great when you are not jettisoning 5 players a year for being idiots, concussions, and breaking rules.

NC State is also not comparable to SU as they could have 47 Zach Mahoney walk-ons because their tuition is $22k a year not $62K.

 

[Crusty]

A limit of 85 is great when you are not jettisoning 5 players a year for being idiots, concussions, and breaking rules.

NC State is also not comparable to SU as they could have 47 Zach Mahoney walk-ons because their tuition is $22k a year not $62K.

Really, they have the same number on their roster as we do.
Do we really have an excuse for everything? Is it never that we can look at ourselves and make honest judgments?

 

[CuseOnly]

I think we have disqualified more players for concussions the last few years than the rest of the FBS combined.

While I agree players need to be protected, the policy is a little bit on the overly cautious side. I might feel differently if my kid was playing but apparently based on Long's parents response to him being DQ'd, some parents don't agree.

 

[Scooch]

yes. Im still pro-shafer. This year is throw away. Momentum has swung the wrong way. The snowball Grob has talked about - happened this year in the wrong way. As I said before the CLemson game. He should get 4 years. I thought that 2 weeks ago, yesterday, today and I will still think it tomorrow and on Sunday. Next year, he wins he gets an extension. He loses, he loses his job. If a few recruits don't like that, oh well. Frank Beamer did just fine with his career. It is tough to turn around a program. But consistency is key. Just because a coach has 2 bad seasons doesnt mean that his career won't work out.

Have you looked up where Beamer was in his third year vs. his first year? You should.

People point to Mac and Beamer incessantly as examples of needing patience, but both were much better in year 3 than Shafer.

 

[CuseOnly]

Really, they have the same number on their roster as we do.
Do we really have an excuse for everything? Is it never that we can look at ourselves and make honest judgments?

Yes everybody's roster is supposed to be 85 scholarship players, not making excuses, stating facts. If you DQ 3-4 kids during Fall practice and kick Williams and Broyld just before, then you are not at 85 scholarship players, are you? And 1-2 kids you were counting on don't qualify.

That is what I am saying. Unless of course every team we played did the same thing, then we would be even.

Not saying some of it wasn't self inflicted but it makes a difference.

 

[Alsacs]

It really isn't loyalty.

As I said, if I thought we were going to go out and get a proven success at the P5 level, I'd be all-in.

I just think that we are, once again, going to do it on the cheap and hire some mid-major coordinator and hope that it works out.

Shafer hasn't helped himself with some of the in-game blunders but go back to 2011, especially, and re-read the posts about Marrone - lots of similar complaints.

The injury situation has been horrific.

I'm just not convinced that Shafer is ready for the scrap heap if we are going to go out and replace him with someone who is not a clear upgrade.

Lots of posters who are now calling for Shafer's scalp were fawning all over Shafer and calling him a great hire.

Shows how much those posters knew...

I hated the SS hire when we did in Jan 2013. I have apologized to DM for all the grief I gave him.

SS was a painter hired to build the next house when the architect left. Good man but not a P5 HC. He should have gotten a MAC job and proven he could be a good HC. I don't want a coordinator as the HC.

I want a MAC/FBS/FCS/fired coach this year to be our next HC. SS's a good man but I believe his ceiling is 7-5 as HC. Good man who deserves respect but you are what your record says 13-23. I don't believe SS could be HC of SU for 10 more years and ever get his career record to .500

 

[TheCusian]

I have no problem with this but The Cusian wants to come at me so it annoys me that I have to waste time. What I said was right. He should have said only 1 had him at 4 star but he wanted the fight which annoys the hell out of me and causes the comebacks.

I didn't come at you. I'm questioning your hard line on P5 coordinators. I did a quick look at Mariotas wiki page and saw 3* across the board and went with it, you got nitpickey like it mattered to my overall point.

For what it's worth I agree that HC experience would be a huge plus, I'm just not drawing a hardline to rule out someone who could be great.

Every hire is risky. But due diligence and a proper AD should mitigate that some.