Article on WVU and the ACC...

[EnviroSciGuy]

WVU was recently bumped up to R1 in the Carnegie research classifications. They have high hopes of someday having a student body around 60,000 which is absurd given the state of infrastructure in Morgantown that can't handle the current 35,000. Truly a case study in a city that did not keep pace with the growth of the university, and if any of you have been here for football games, you've seen some of the traffic issues. What you don't know is that it's a daily problem and not limited to games. Is the university itself ACC material? Doubtfully so. Would I love them being in the ACC for purely selfish reasons? Absolutely, and they do have a strong brand.

 

[DoctorBombay]

 

[kcsu]

Not going to happen.

 

[tipphill]

WVU was recently bumped up to R1 in the Carnegie research classifications. They have high hopes of someday having a student body around 60,000 which is absurd given the state of infrastructure in Morgantown that can't handle the current 35,000. Truly a case study in a city that did not keep pace with the growth of the university, and if any of you have been here for football games, you've seen some of the traffic issues. What you don't know is that it's a daily problem and not limited to games. Is the university itself ACC material? Doubtfully so. Would I love them being in the ACC for purely selfish reasons? Absolutely, and they do have a strong brand.

if they can add value (money wise) academics no longer matter.

 

[SU2NASA]

With Gordon Gee at the controls, WVU is looking to the B1G for a bail out.

I think the B1G is looking for a way out of the Rutgers debacle.

 

[SU68]

Personally, I don't like the idea of splitting the pie 16 ways if one of the new teams don't bring additional market value.

I take your point, but if they come in with Notre Dame, the Irish's additional market value would more than offset WVA.

 

[Whitey23]

When you had Tim Brando on your podcast recently, he said he expected Notre Dame to become a full member of the ACC within a few years. For scheduling, it probably makes sense that the ACC would want to go to 16 members. Who would be your pick?
-- Ryan Gavin, Columbia, MO

I'm not as confident as Tim that's going to happen, but he still calls ACC basketball for Raycom and is well-connected in that conference so his word is certainly worth taking seriously. Perhaps the fact the Irish will soon be the only Power 5 team with no opportunity to play a 13th game becomes a factor.

Connecticut has always been the low-hanging fruit if that conference ever chose to expand again. For one thing, it's a natural fit to reunite that Northeast school with former Big East foes Syracuse and Boston College. Also, while football drives all realignment, basketball is a bigger priority for the ACC than others. With the Huskies you're bringing in a four-time recent national champ along with the sport's preeminent women's program.

My concern would be the viability of UConn becoming consistently competitive in football in a league full of schools with far better recruiting footholds. This is a program that's posted a winning record in the Big East/AAC twice in 12 seasons. But that risk is hardly a deal-breaker if it's part of a coupling with the most famous program in college football history. (Cue hate mail from Alabama and Michigan.)

Mailbag: Could the Big 12 just kick Baylor out?

 

[omniorange]

ND full time is fool's gold. And this is from someone who held onto this notion it would happen for a very long, long, time as TerryD can attest. I think there are only two ways they will even consider joining a conference in full. One is something that Swarbrick has already stated; if they were somehow shut out of the CFP which they aren't now. If the CFP expands beyond 4 teams in the next round to 6 or 8 as most think will actually happen this favors ND remaining indy.

The other would be if somehow conference's scheduling agreements made it impossible for the Irish to keep a good schedule. Remember back when the PAC and B1G were talking about a scheduling agreement between the two? At that time the PAC had a 9 game conference schedule but the potential deal with the B1G was nixed by the PAC due to certain commitments already in place by some PAC teams. Now I don't think it was specifically mentioned, but that had to be USC and Stanford playing ND. My guess is that neither of them wanted to exchange their Irish games for a rotating B1G game, as their 10th game. Perhaps the rumored combo of the BTN and PTN might force the issue now, but with the B1G now at 9 conference games as well, I doubt the likes of Ohio State will want to give up that big OOC marquee game for an alternating PAC game either. Perhaps a fixed PAC-B1G rivalry game might work? I doubt it, but I think that is the only way to force ND's hands now.

For any that still think $$$ will drive the issue, the Irish could have sold out to that factor long ago and be in the B1G right now if that was a prime motivator for ND. And should that ever become a deciding factor in the future, how likely would it be that the ACC would be their choice under that scenario?

So, five years before the GORs start to expire and ND is still not in full, the ACC should consider expanding beyond 14 then it should not take ND into the picture, imho. But if they can't give up that hope then somehow revisiting the championship game rule that would allow for more than two divisions, require at least 8 conference games to participate in the championship game, and pick the two best teams from the divisions to participate in said game might be the way to go. This would allow the ACC to expand to 15, have three divisions of 5 teams, and the two most highly ranked teams from the three divisions make the championship game.

In this regard, I think WVU would make a better addition than either UConn or Cincy.

Northeast

BC
SU
Pitt
WVU
L'Ville

Mid-Atlantic

VT
UVa
UNC
Duke
NC State

South

FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT
Wake

As for the claim about how WVU has no markets, under the new old paradigm (cord cutting), content value is more important than markets. Psst...it always has been. Markets only truly ever came into discussion when expansion candidates were close in terms of content value which allowed for other factors such as markets and academics to enter the picture.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[TerryD]

ND full time is fool's gold. And this is from someone who held onto this notion it would happen for a very long, long, time as TerryD can attest. I think there are only two ways they will even consider joining a conference in full. One is something that Swarbrick has already stated; if they were somehow shut out of the CFP which they aren't now. If the CFP expands beyond 4 teams in the next round to 6 or 8 as most think will actually happen this favors ND remaining indy.

The other would be if somehow conference's scheduling agreements made it impossible for the Irish to keep a good schedule. Remember back when the PAC and B1G were talking about a scheduling agreement between the two? At that time the PAC had a 9 game conference schedule but the potential deal with the B1G was nixed by the PAC due to certain commitments already in place by some PAC teams. Now I don't think it was specifically mentioned, but that had to be USC and Stanford playing ND. My guess is that neither of them wanted to exchange their Irish games for a rotating B1G game, as their 10th game. Perhaps the rumored combo of the BTN and PTN might force the issue now, but with the B1G now at 9 conference games as well, I doubt the likes of Ohio State will want to give up that big OOC marquee game for an alternating PAC game either. Perhaps a fixed PAC-B1G rivalry game might work? I doubt it, but I think that is the only way to force ND's hands now.

For any that still think $$$ will drive the issue, the Irish could have sold out to that factor long ago and be in the B1G right now if that was a prime motivator for ND. And should that ever become a deciding factor in the future, how likely would it be that the ACC would be their choice under that scenario?

So, five years before the GORs start to expire and ND is still not in full, the ACC should consider expanding beyond 14 then it should not take ND into the picture, imho. But if they can't give up that hope then somehow revisiting the championship game rule that would allow for more than two divisions, require at least 8 conference games to participate in the championship game, and pick the two best teams from the divisions to participate in said game might be the way to go. This would allow the ACC to expand to 15, have three divisions of 5 teams, and the two most highly ranked teams from the three divisions make the championship game.

In this regard, I think WVU would make a better addition than either UConn or Cincy.

Northeast

BC
SU
Pitt
WVU
L'Ville

Mid-Atlantic

VT
UVa
UNC
Duke
NC State

South

FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT
Wake

As for the claim about how WVU has no markets, under the new old paradigm (cord cutting), content value is more important than markets. Psst...it always has been. Markets only truly ever came into discussion when expansion candidates were close in terms of content value which allowed for other factors such as markets and academics to enter the picture.

Cheers,
Neil

I think that Neil and I had these same debates way back in 2003 on the old Big East message board.

 

[jgeorge322]

ND full time is fool's gold. And this is from someone who held onto this notion it would happen for a very long, long, time as TerryD can attest. I think there are only two ways they will even consider joining a conference in full. One is something that Swarbrick has already stated; if they were somehow shut out of the CFP which they aren't now. If the CFP expands beyond 4 teams in the next round to 6 or 8 as most think will actually happen this favors ND remaining indy.

The other would be if somehow conference's scheduling agreements made it impossible for the Irish to keep a good schedule. Remember back when the PAC and B1G were talking about a scheduling agreement between the two? At that time the PAC had a 9 game conference schedule but the potential deal with the B1G was nixed by the PAC due to certain commitments already in place by some PAC teams. Now I don't think it was specifically mentioned, but that had to be USC and Stanford playing ND. My guess is that neither of them wanted to exchange their Irish games for a rotating B1G game, as their 10th game. Perhaps the rumored combo of the BTN and PTN might force the issue now, but with the B1G now at 9 conference games as well, I doubt the likes of Ohio State will want to give up that big OOC marquee game for an alternating PAC game either. Perhaps a fixed PAC-B1G rivalry game might work? I doubt it, but I think that is the only way to force ND's hands now.

For any that still think $$$ will drive the issue, the Irish could have sold out to that factor long ago and be in the B1G right now if that was a prime motivator for ND. And should that ever become a deciding factor in the future, how likely would it be that the ACC would be their choice under that scenario?

So, five years before the GORs start to expire and ND is still not in full, the ACC should consider expanding beyond 14 then it should not take ND into the picture, imho. But if they can't give up that hope then somehow revisiting the championship game rule that would allow for more than two divisions, require at least 8 conference games to participate in the championship game, and pick the two best teams from the divisions to participate in said game might be the way to go. This would allow the ACC to expand to 15, have three divisions of 5 teams, and the two most highly ranked teams from the three divisions make the championship game.

In this regard, I think WVU would make a better addition than either UConn or Cincy.

Northeast

BC
SU
Pitt
WVU
L'Ville

Mid-Atlantic

VT
UVa
UNC
Duke
NC State

South

FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT
Wake

As for the claim about how WVU has no markets, under the new old paradigm (cord cutting), content value is more important than markets. Psst...it always has been. Markets only truly ever came into discussion when expansion candidates were close in terms of content value which allowed for other factors such as markets and academics to enter the picture.

Cheers,
Neil

So fsu clemson and miami in same division

 

[omniorange]

So fsu clemson and miami in same division

Yep. It's a variation of the old 16 team, 4 pods/division type set-up that always had FSU and Miami in the same 4 team pod/division. Clemson was usually there in most set-ups although sometimes Clemson and GT were put with two NC schools while the other two NC schools were with FSU and Miami.

 

[Newhouser]

I've always wondered why academics matter in an athletic conference. Does Stanford's reputation suffer because it's in a conference with Arizona State? Does Vanderbilt's reputation suffer because it's in a conference with Auburn? etc.

(ASU and Auburn are perfectly fine schools, but they aren't elite)

and as the UNC situation proves - academic comparisons of institutions when it comes to student athletes is a slippery slope.

 

[Hoo's That]

ND full time is fool's gold. And this is from someone who held onto this notion it would happen for a very long, long, time as TerryD can attest. I think there are only two ways they will even consider joining a conference in full. One is something that Swarbrick has already stated; if they were somehow shut out of the CFP which they aren't now. If the CFP expands beyond 4 teams in the next round to 6 or 8 as most think will actually happen this favors ND remaining indy.

The other would be if somehow conference's scheduling agreements made it impossible for the Irish to keep a good schedule. Remember back when the PAC and B1G were talking about a scheduling agreement between the two? At that time the PAC had a 9 game conference schedule but the potential deal with the B1G was nixed by the PAC due to certain commitments already in place by some PAC teams. Now I don't think it was specifically mentioned, but that had to be USC and Stanford playing ND. My guess is that neither of them wanted to exchange their Irish games for a rotating B1G game, as their 10th game. Perhaps the rumored combo of the BTN and PTN might force the issue now, but with the B1G now at 9 conference games as well, I doubt the likes of Ohio State will want to give up that big OOC marquee game for an alternating PAC game either. Perhaps a fixed PAC-B1G rivalry game might work? I doubt it, but I think that is the only way to force ND's hands now.

For any that still think $$$ will drive the issue, the Irish could have sold out to that factor long ago and be in the B1G right now if that was a prime motivator for ND. And should that ever become a deciding factor in the future, how likely would it be that the ACC would be their choice under that scenario?

So, five years before the GORs start to expire and ND is still not in full, the ACC should consider expanding beyond 14 then it should not take ND into the picture, imho. But if they can't give up that hope then somehow revisiting the championship game rule that would allow for more than two divisions, require at least 8 conference games to participate in the championship game, and pick the two best teams from the divisions to participate in said game might be the way to go. This would allow the ACC to expand to 15, have three divisions of 5 teams, and the two most highly ranked teams from the three divisions make the championship game.

In this regard, I think WVU would make a better addition than either UConn or Cincy.

Northeast

BC
SU
Pitt
WVU
L'Ville

Mid-Atlantic

VT
UVa
UNC
Duke
NC State

South

FSU
Miami
Clemson
GT
Wake

As for the claim about how WVU has no markets, under the new old paradigm (cord cutting), content value is more important than markets. Psst...it always has been. Markets only truly ever came into discussion when expansion candidates were close in terms of content value which allowed for other factors such as markets and academics to enter the picture.

Cheers,
Neil

It seems like what you're trying to set up is a system that works like going to a 4-5-5 schedule. If that's the case, you'll need to mix the teams up better.

WVU doesn't bring content to the mix that you think it does. They have a good football team, a good basketball team, and (as I have now been informed) a championship rifle team. "Everything else" basically is mediocre at best. On the men's side they have golf, soccer, swimming, and wrestling. That's it, 6 men's sports. Their women's sport list is better, but they don't play field hockey, volleyball, softball, or lacrosse. There are other schools that would bring just as much and maybe more content than WVU without the unruly (I'll be nice and just call them that) fans.

 

[Crusty]

When they get teeth we can consider them.

 

[orangefog]

It seems like what you're trying to set up is a system that works like going to a 4-5-5 schedule. If that's the case, you'll need to mix the teams up better.

WVU doesn't bring content to the mix that you think it does. They have a good football team, a good basketball team, and (as I have now been informed) a championship rifle team. "Everything else" basically is mediocre at best. On the men's side they have golf, soccer, swimming, and wrestling. That's it, 6 men's sports. Their women's sport list is better, but they don't play field hockey, volleyball, softball, or lacrosse. There are other schools that would bring just as much and maybe more content than WVU without the unruly (I'll be nice and just call them that) fans.

I believe they have gymnastics. Would there be enough ACC teams to field women's gymnastics?

 

[orangefog]

When they get teeth we can consider them.

Teeth as in plural as a group or each individual needs multiple teeth?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

What about West Virginia barbie?

 

[Hoo's That]

I believe they have gymnastics. Would there be enough ACC teams to field women's gymnastics?

They do. They would be the 4th participant thereby making it an ACC sport.

 

[orangefog]

They do. They would be the 4th participant thereby making it an ACC sport.

More content for the network.

 

[Hoo's That]

More content for the network.

Just the conference championship and the competition w/Pitt if they have one (the other teams are UNC and NC State). Most competitions during the season are regional, rather than against conference teams, so only the ones hosted by ACC teams can be on the network.

 

[orangefog]

Just the conference championship and the competition w/Pitt if they have one (the other teams are UNC and NC State). Most competitions during the season are regional, rather than against conference teams, so only the ones hosted by ACC teams can be on the network.

North Carolina hosted 5 meets last year, would all those meets be available for the network?

 

[Hoo's That]

North Carolina hosted 5 meets last year, would all those meets be available for the network?

Yes. The "home team's" network has the broadcast rights, regardless of sport. When USC-w played us in C'ville ESPN/ABC had first dibs. When we played them there it was a PAC-12 network game.

 

[orangefog]

Yes. The "home team's" network has the broadcast rights, regardless of sport.

I am not sure if gymnastics would generate much in regards to ratings, as these are not the top schools in the sport, but it would provide a little bit of content during the year. Many are quad meets or tri meets, meaning they have two to three other teams competing. I know a girl that will be on NC State in a couple of years and one at George Washington and William and Mary, both schools that participate against ACC schools currently. Although, I believe they are in the same league as the ACC schools (EAGL), so who knows if they would continue competing against them. Anyway, I would watch, and I know my daughter would watch. I had to get the PAC 12 network last year just so my daughter could watch UCLA and Utah.

 

[Hoo's That]

I am not sure if gymnastics would generate much in regards to ratings, as these are not the top schools in the sport, but it would provide a little bit of content during the year. Many are quad meets or tri meets, meaning they have two to three other teams competing. I know a girl that will be on NC State in a couple of years and one at George Washington and William and Mary, both schools that participate against ACC schools currently. Although, I believe they are in the same league as the ACC schools (EAGL), so who knows if they would continue competing against them. Anyway, I would watch, and I know my daughter would watch. I had to get the PAC 12 network last year just so my daughter could watch UCLA and Utah.

Totally agree. If/when there is some sort of a network, we'll need to find ACC-owned stuff to fill it 24/7/365. I'm willing to bet there will be boo-koo field hockey matches broadcast in the fall, with several repeats overnight.

 

[orangefog]

Totally agree. If/when there is some sort of a network, we'll need to find ACC-owned stuff to fill it 24/7/365.

Yeah, and winter is relatively slow, isn't it? If our schools could get competitive, it is a pretty cool sport to watch. The college gymnasts are VERY spirited, it cracks me up.