BJ Johnson just can't play at this level

[dasher]

What was the realistic part?

I was faulted earlier in the year for saying that I think we are awful. We struggle against terrible teams.

 

[Orangezoo]

Think about this. BJ as a JR next year will be of similar age to many freshman with how many go and play at prep schools before college. He still hasn't even filled into his frame enough to gain that next level strength. He has good length, nice form on his shot and good instincts on the boards. I agree with jeff in he should have been redshirted just to give him that extra year to mature without the pressue of whether he would get a shot to contribute. Remember Cooney his 1st year actually playing.. outside defense it wasn't pretty. Look where Trevor is now. BJ has the tools to get there and I can't stress enough the impact of him being so young still.

 

[weepeel]

I don't want to get into a whole thing here but being able to play at this level doesn't necessarily mean being able to produce and be efficient in your production at this level on most nights. I'm not trying to insult the guy but you put a just solid defender on him and he's not going to do much. The Clemson game was just the latest example. The fact that he cannot drive with any more than a 25% success rate ensures that the defender doesn't give him any space to maneuver. The way he's defended has little to do with us having no other 3-point options. They're playing him quite ordinarily from what I can see. No doubt, there are nights when he's shooting the lights out but we've played lots of mid-major guys over the years that have done that to us as well. No one thinks that those guys could play for us night in, night out. Sure he averages 14 pts a game. He's also taken the most shots on the team and is shooting 37% from the field. If you look at his game-by-game stats, I think the Nunes example becomes clearer.

We don't (and haven't had) much choice the past couple of years so he gets major minutes but that doesn't mean he's best suited for this level of play and that amount of time on the court. Put him on Delaware and he'd be a terror. If they got a favorable draw in the tourney, he could even go off and help them upset a team or two. But when someone like him plays a Syracuse-caliber schedule, it's hard not to show your limitations over time.

Sir, are you smoking crack? Cooney is doing as as well as just about any guard in the country would be given he has 2 to 3 players on offensive you have trouble making a freaking layup.

Of course he will have trouble driving because we have terrible spacing and opposing defenses pack it in because with cooney driving the only other potential kick out is to silent g nobody and outside of him can hit the broad side of the barn.

He might not be a Harrison twin or Tyus Jones but the kid is clearly a talented d-1 player.

 

[suttree]

I was faulted earlier in the year for saying that I think we are awful. We struggle against terrible teams.

Was I one of the ones who faulted you? (That's a rhetorical question.) I wasn't talking about you and your opinion. I first called out the OP, who thought it was appropriate to diagnose BJ as unfit for this level of play and owner of the lowest BB IQ on the team. And while I've been known to get emotional about this team, I also think it's silly to announce the same night after a win--yes, a win--that one is "done" with this team. Just my opinions. But would you regard those statements as realistic?

I should add that your definition of "awful" helps prove my point about how spoiled we've all become. Sure, we've been struggling, even against subpar teams. Maybe that's modern college hoops parity sneaking up on us, in part. Certainly, this is a down year--not least because we had a bunch of guys leave very early and lost anticipated contributors to bad injuries. But maybe it's a pretty decent spot to be in when your "awful" teams start the year at 14-5.

Maybe it's Seasonal Affect Disorder.

 

[dasher]

Was I one of the ones who faulted you? (That's a rhetorical question.) I wasn't talking about you and your opinion. I first called out the OP, who thought it was appropriate to diagnose BJ as unfit for this level of play and owner of the lowest BB IQ on the team. And while I've been known to get emotional about this team, I also think it's silly to announce the same night after a win--yes, a win--that one is "done" with this team. Just my opinions. But would you regard those statements as realistic?

I should add that your definition of "awful" helps prove my point about how spoiled we've all become. Sure, we've been struggling, even against subpar teams. Maybe that's modern college hoops parity sneaking up on us, in part. Certainly, this is a down year--not least because we had a bunch of guys leave very early and lost anticipated contributors to bad injuries. But maybe it's a pretty decent spot to be in when your "awful" teams start the year at 14-5.

Maybe it's Seasonal Affect Disorder.

I believe our 14-5 record is a product of a "soft" Acc early season schedule. We did just about as bad as we good have in the OOC schedule.

 

[moqui]

I believe our 14-5 record is a product of a "soft" Acc early season schedule.

the fact that SU's Pomeroy ranking falls steeply even after a win certainly supports that point of view

it's unsettling to look at the schedule and realize that even if the Orange are 8-1 at the halfway point, they could still end up 9-9

still, I'm seeing flashes of improvement here & there and hope it all gets put together for a couple of signature wins & a 12-6 finish

 

[suttree]

I believe our 14-5 record is a product of a "soft" Acc early season schedule. We did just about as bad as we good have in the OOC schedule.

At least we agree on something, considering that I can't get you to answer my questions.

 

[Ghost]

The kid can't shoot at the moment - so quit shooting. Work on getting to the rim, work on hitting the boards hard, work on your defense, but please - stop taking long two pointers unless you are WIDE WIDE WIDE WIDE open. That's the baffling thing for me...at least Patterson looks confident while he's throwing up bricks. BJ just looks lost - so do the small things and let the other stuff come, but stop forcing.

 

[SBU72]

0 good comes from these threads. Bj obviously still has tremendous upside. We aren't kentucky, we develop kids. Just last year you guys were all talking about how rak and g were hopeless. Bj's time will come. He's been pressed into play due to injuries, i dont think anyone reasonably expected him to come out looking like senior demetris nichols.

I agree with you and go further. With the exception of a couple of contributors, most of the posters here either can't evaluate talent or see things with thick orange tinted glasses. Last year not only were most down on G and Rak, but most were saying that both Roberson and Johnson were going to make huge strides over the summer, and Chino would be more than adequate backup. They admitted that Joseph was not the equal to the previous young guards but would be adequate and that McC would leed the team. and lastly while 2015-16 was going to be THE big year,this year was going to be under the radar strong.

 

[SUbear]

I completely disagree. Both defense and offense obviously require practice and knowing where to be. Where they differ is the amount of technical skill required. Shooting and dribbling are highly technical abilities that cannot be improved quickly. However, learning what it takes to stay in front of your man and play the passing lanes is more mental focus than anything else. Sure, blocking shots and stripping the ball are skills that have to be honed, but we're not asking him to do either of those things.

A lack of confidence is also much more detrimental on offense than D, IMO. Bottom line, if he puts the time in, he'll improve greatly on both sides of the ball. But he specifically needs to put the time in a defense because that's the limiting factor on his playing time right now. The offense will come.

Funny but your last two sentences agreed with what I said. Ask any coach and they will tell you it is harder to get a good defender than a decent offensive player. The Syracuse zone requires much more than just staying in front of your man. Neither is a given and both are needed.

 

[dasher]

At least we agree on something, considering that I can't get you to answer my questions.

Was the question whether you were the one that faulted me? If it was, no. That wasn't my point. My point was that you take exception to those that said we were done. But more importantly, this is a fan board. They are all fans who have posted here for a while. They are entitled to their opinion. I also agree with them. Hope I am wrong. However, I will watch every game. Live and die with every game.

 

[Brooky03]

Funny but your last two sentences agreed with what I said. Ask any coach and they will tell you it is harder to get a good defender than a decent offensive player. The Syracuse zone requires much more than just staying in front of your man. Neither is a given and both are needed.

I've been around my fair share of quality basketball coaches. I wasn't arguing whether offense is easier than defense or vice versa. I was arguing which one is easier to improve at. Offense is mostly shooting and dribbling. If you suck at one or both of those things, you will suck at them for a while. They're not easy things to improve, even if you're in the gym 3+ hours a day, 6 days a week. Defense, on the other hand, can be improved quickly if a player has the right mind set. We can argue the difficulty with attaining the required mindset, but my premise was obviously that once a player decides to play defesnse, he can become very good very quickly.

And yes, our zone is predominately about staying in front of your man and jumping passing lanes. Both of which are things that can be learned because they require mental awareness and athleticism, rather than highly technical skill. Blocking shots and stripping ballhandlers are more similar to the offensive skills of shooting and dribbling. They're not as easy to pick up, but again, we're not asking BJ to do that in the zone.

 

[suttree]

Was the question whether you were the one that faulted me? If it was, no. That wasn't my point. My point was that you take exception to those that said we were done. I think they are right. However, I will watch every game. Live and die with every game.

Excellent. Genuinely glad to hear it. I'm going to keep watching, too.

You're changing the argument, though. I criticized the person who said he was done with this team, because I think it's silly. (I should add that I acknowledge his unfettered right to stop watching--and indeed, I'd welcome it if this would mean one fewer rant). When is a team "done," though? Everybody's got their own standards. I'm grateful for the overall program that I've been able to follow for 4+ decades, and while I really care about the team's results, my life's had its high and low points, and the disappointment of a team that might just make the NIT isn't enough to lead me to angrily announce that I am done with this team. The season ain't done, and neither am I. We've made the NCAAs 20 times since 1990--and I got my "one before the grave" in 2003. I've met some cool, interesting, hilarious, accomplished, and profoundly generous people through this forum. It's good to be a Syracuse fan.

I'd suggest that we let this go now. Everybody's nervous and/or in a rotten mood over the looming NCAA investigation and reportedly imminent sanctions. Darker days may well lie ahead. My ultimate beef was with the person who felt knowledgeable enough to opine that BJ doesn't belong at this level--and worse, that BJ has the lowest BB IQ on the team. I don't think that was "realistic." I think it's premature, and if I were to use the adjective that's actually in my head right now to describe the IQ comment, this post would probably be deleted.

 

[SUbear]

I've been around my fair share of quality basketball coaches. I wasn't arguing whether offense is easier than defense or vice versa. I was arguing which one is easier to improve at. Offense is mostly shooting and dribbling. If you suck at one or both of those things, you will suck at them for a while. They're not easy things to improve, even if you're in the gym 3+ hours a day, 6 days a week. Defense, on the other hand, can be improved quickly if a player has the right mind set. We can argue the difficulty with attaining the required mindset, but my premise was obviously that once a player decides to play defesnse, he can become very good very quickly.

And yes, our zone is predominately about staying in front of your man and jumping passing lanes. Both of which are things that can be learned because they require mental awareness and athleticism, rather than highly technical skill. Blocking shots and stripping ballhandlers are more similar to the offensive skills of shooting and dribbling. They're not as easy to pick up, but again, we're not asking BJ to do that in the zone.

Sorry Brooky but you have changed what you said, and keep adjusting your comments, and misrepresenting mine. This discussion is over.

 

[dasher]

Excellent. Genuinely glad to hear it. I'm going to keep watching, too.

You're changing the argument, though. I criticized the person who said he was done with this team, because I think it's silly. (I should add that I acknowledge his unfettered right to stop watching--and indeed, I'd welcome it if this would mean one fewer rant). When is a team "done," though? Everybody's got their own standards. I'm grateful for the overall program that I've been able to follow for 4+ decades, and while I really care about the team's results, my life's had its high and low points, and the disappointment of a team that might just make the NIT isn't enough to lead me to angrily announce that I am done with this team. The season ain't done, and neither am I. We've made the NCAAs 20 times since 1990--and I got me "one before the grave" in 2003. I've met some cool, interesting, hilarious, accomplished, and profoundly generous people through this forum. It's good to be a Syracuse fan.

I'd suggest that we let this go now. Everybody's nervous and/or in a rotten mood over the looming NCAA investigation and reportedly imminent sanctions. Darker days may well lie ahead. My ultimate beef was with the person who felt knowledgeable enough to opine that BJ doesn't belong at this level--and worse, that BJ has the lowest BB IQ on the team. I don't that was "realistic." I think it's premature, and if I were to use the adjective that's actually in my head right now to describe the IQ comment, this post would probably be deleted.

I just agreed with everything you said. And , I wasn't angry or anything like that.

 

[Flacusian]

Heck, I'm not convinced Cooney's a high major player. He's good enough to play at this level but that doesn't necessarily mean he should. The best comparison I could come up with for him is a football one and it's an imperfect one: Troy Nunes. Nunes flashed brightly from time to time but ultimately was better suited to star at UBuffalo than at Syracuse. Similarly I think Cooney would be an all-conference type player at Delaware and maybe light up a Power 5 team or two in the OOC sked while getting smothered by quicker, more athletic defenders in the rest.

This is the most BS thing I've seen posted in quite a while. What do you want from the kid? He has carried us at times this season. Please...that's right up there with the GMAC overated meme.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Cooney has never played with a second good shooter on the team. If teams had to play him honest, he would average nearly 20 a game.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

the fact that SU's Pomeroy ranking falls steeply even after a win certainly supports that point of view it's unsettling to look at the schedule and realize that even if the Orange are 8-1 at the halfway point, they could still end up 9-9 still, I'm seeing flashes of improvement here & there and hope it all gets put together for a couple of signature wins & a 12-6 finish

It'll be rough with our meager bench, especially if the refs continue to be disparate in calling fouls.

 

[Ghost]

Cooney has never played with a second good shooter on the team. If teams had to play him honest, he would average nearly 20 a game.

G is over 40% from three this year.

That's better than TC.

 

[rrlbees]

G is over 40% from three this year. That's better than TC.

G is doing a great job and has really upped his game. But his 3's are usually with nobody near him. He's not the defenses focus like TC and Rak are. To his credit, he's taking advantage of it.

 

[Orange2389]

If BJ cant cut it, then we need to ship him off somewhere else. Tired of recruiting kids who cant play. Next

 

[Ghost]

G is doing a great job and has really upped his game. But his 3's are usually with nobody near him. He's not the defenses focus like TC and Rak are. To his credit, he's taking advantage of it.

Agreed. I was just responding to the notion that we don't have a second shooter. G has been on fire of late, but TC is more of a true shooter - he just rarely gets uncontested looks. G does get a ton of open looks - and to his credit has been hitting them at a good clip.

 

[Ghost]

If BJ cant cut it, then we need to ship him off somewhere else. Tired of recruiting kids who cant play. Next

Harsh.

Cooney is probably the best example of the troubles a young kid can have. His Frosh year (second year in the program) he couldn't hit a shot (not looking at numbers, but felt that way at least), and then he all of a sudden he couldn't miss, then went cold at the end of last year, and then exploded again. I think to a certain extent everyone is still sort of waiting for his numbers to normalize and for him to be more consistent - but we've had some serious flaws over the last two years offensively. Namely, nobody is especially adept at breaking down the offense off the dribble - it holds everyone back.

When players aren't seeing sustained minutes - it's harder to judge what the kids are capable of regardless IMO. I think that's a part of what held Rak back, and look at him now. I don't know, BJ is pretty young for a Soph and maybe that means nothing, but maybe it does......he has shown glimpses of having the talent to play here though.

Those positive moments have been few and far between of course, but he attacked the rim well a couple times early in the year, and showed a knack for rebounding in a crowd. For whatever reason kids that get limited minutes early in their career tend to press the action when they do get in - I would imagine that's his biggest issue. He wants to score because scoring is how you stay in the game (at least in the minds of 18-20 year olds I would assume).

That clusterf**k he threw up the other day was pretty horrific, but I would bet by the end of the year he has a game where he bails us out - sort of like Cooney during his Frosh year against G'Town in the BET. We'll see...

Maybe BJ will never be good enough, but with his work ethic, etc...I think he'll be fine. These four year kids are valuable for what you get on the back end. BJ looks like he may be one of those kids. Roberson and Patterson do as well - which is sort of the shame of it all. If Roberson blew up this year, we would all probably be patiently waiting on BJ...because we kind of suck, that waiting game is far more painful.

At the end of the day, forcing GOOD kids out of the program wouldn't sit right with me. By all means if he wants to go, feel free, but these kids take a chance on Syracuse, and we take a chance on them. We should all stick it out - and if we get NCAA sanctions, I hope these kids (and the ones coming in) stick it out and still come here because they want to play for Syracuse. I don't know - I wouldn't want to be UConn and force kids out or push them in that direction...

/Rant

 

[tee1222]

I still believe in BJ. He started the season off aggressive with his shot. As already mentioned, it's clear that a bunch of these guys lose confidence with their shot only to regain it again and on and on it goes. The most important thing for him right now is defense and attack. With more run, BJ will get into a flow eventually. Anyway, we saw some good rebounding (averaged nearly 9 in a 3 game span) from him a couple of games, and he has to focus on getting and converting those easier shots. Just forget about the three point line (or near it) for a game and up the percentages. He has the tools. He belongs here and I think he will show up. But he needs that confidence back. Play defense, look for easy buckets and convert them.

 

[pearl31]

This.

And the lowest BB IQ comment was the most inappropriate part.

People giving up on individual players and the team (another recent post about being "done") are a reflection of how spoiled so many fans have become--particularly in the last five years of the Boeheimian Rhapsody Golden Age. Do you guys also boo your grandmother if she overcooks the Thanksgiving turkey?

What's more, this particular OP has a history of going around and tossing grenades like this, and then vanishing. The intent is not to offer something up for discussion, or even to make any sort of rational observation. Rather, it is to stir the pot and antagonize. Just another in a line of pathetic threads by this OP.