Clemson outsider's take on your facilities debate (long) | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Clemson outsider's take on your facilities debate (long)

At the cost of some seating it would be possible to add more club seating. Both for football and basketball. It would cost some $ for the renovations. I suspect they've already run the numbers and there might not be enough takers to make it worthwhile.
 
ahh it sounds so simple doesn't it? you spend a little money, and yes little in the large scope of things, take on a little debt if you have to, and make up for it big time down the road. the thing that scares me though is if TGD, who is all for paying coaching, improved facilities, can't get something done I don't know who were going to bring in that will. It's the people making the final decision that need to check the calendar.
 
Can you send some of your donors our way? Clemson wouldn't have spent 1 cent without a significant capital program. You may know, but some of our posters don't, that schools don't build athletic facilities without major commitments up front.



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Many reasons to like Clemson

clemson-cheerleaders1.jpg
clem8.jpg
clemson-cheerleader-51.jpg
Clemson_Tigers_bikini.jpg

While that is fantastic... that's also alot of why they outrecruit us so it kind of cancels out.
 
Just curious...Does BMW donate to Clemson?
I don't know if they donate or not. If so, I would assume only for academics. They did partner with Clemson on the ICAR automotive engineering campus in Greenville.
 
Can you send some of your donors our way? Clemson wouldn't have spent 1 cent without a significant capital program. You may know, but some of our posters don't, that schools don't build athletic facilities without major commitments up front.



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the thing is most do seem to know this. we are just saying something creative has to be done. maybe a better donor program, or drive, because obviously the current one isn't working.

also, with that said then we should assume that Marrone was promised better facilites (IPF, Medical) when he was hired 4 years ago is false? and that he is frustrated that nothing has done in 4 years is also false? cause if those are true then somebody better tell DM that schools don't build facilities without major commitments, but i'm guessing he knows this.
 
were also hearing about all these different interviews DM has, but have we heard anything about Syracuse trying to keep him? I'm hoping this is happening behind the scenes, but is Gross trying to make it hard for him to leave? Are we offering an extension, and raise after his current contract is up, as well as raises to the assistants? in the past week we haven't heard anybody say how we are trying to persuade him to stay. hopefully this is happening, but you would think something would leak out. all i'm saying is hopefully we aren't just letting him go without a fight.
 
the thing is most do seem to know this. we are just saying something creative has to be done. maybe a better donor program, or drive, because obviously the current one isn't working.

also, with that said then we should assume that Marrone was promised better facilites (IPF, Medical) when he was hired 4 years ago is false? and that he is frustrated that nothing has done in 4 years is also false? cause if those are true then somebody better tell DM that schools don't build facilities without major commitments, but i'm guessing he knows this.

A better donor program would be a great start...do we have a program?

check out the IPTAY program and compare it to ours. IPTAY raises about $20 mill a year, which is 1/3 of the Clemson AD yearly budget. How much does SU raise?

Of course they need all that extra cash to pay their players salaries.

IPTAY = I Pay Thirty Athletes Yearly

Living in the Lowcountry, it sure has been fun watching Spurrier and Carolina thump Clemson the last four years...:)
 
A better donor program would be a great start...do we have a program?

check out the IPTAY program and compare it to ours. IPTAY raises about $20 mill a year, which is 1/3 of the Clemson AD yearly budget. How much does SU raise?

Of course they need all that extra cash to pay their players salaries.

IPTAY = I Pay Thirty Athletes Yearly

Living in the Lowcountry, it sure has been fun watching Spurrier and Carolina thump Clemson the last four years...:)
Where in the Lowcountry?
 
Thanks for taking the time to share Clemson's experience with us in some details CUTIGER91. I've been looking forward to joining the ACC since the late 1990s, but I agree that if we don't plan to play for the ACC championship every year then we might as well join the Colonial Athletic Association.
Yea great read and points! Wish it was up to me i most definately would pony up!
 
I don't remember all the exact figures, but it was funded through a capital campaign and incurring some debt. They specified that $x would be from raised capital and then they'd commit to debt for the rest. We have NO large donors, but some former players chipped in and IPTAY (our booster program) raised the rest.

Also, one of Terry Don's changes to the plan was to add all the club seating in the West Zone first to start generating extra revenue.

Part of our frustration was (unlike Maryland) we had/have almost no debt at all and the football program makes tons of $$, yet they didn't want or see the need to spend anything.
There have it, BOT. If you have a product that you want to succeed, you invest in it. You have guaranteed future revenue from the ACC TV contract. Use it. What other business (and lets not pretend college fooball is not a business) waits for it's consumers to pay for a new product before said product is produced?
 
There have it, BOT. If you have a product that you want to succeed, you invest in it. You have guaranteed future revenue from the ACC TV contract. Use it. What other business (and lets not pretend college fooball is not a business) waits for it's consumers to pay for a new product before said product is produced?

Did u miss the part about the capital campaign?

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You two in Hilton Head / Bluffton? I spent two years as DC of Hilton Head Christian Academy before leaving the area. Love it there.
 
You two in Hilton Head / Bluffton? I spent two years as DC of Hilton Head Christian Academy before leaving the area. Love it there.

Charleston, but I know exactly where HHCA is. Hilton head is a blast...
 
You two in Hilton Head / Bluffton? I spent two years as DC of Hilton Head Christian Academy before leaving the area. Love it there.
Not currently in HHI, but there on the regular! Love the "Hawaii of the East". My retirement destination!
 
Did u miss the part about the capital campaign?

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I suppose I did. If the problem we have then, is a lack of donor support, what should be done? It seems there are three options: 1. Wait for the donors that don't exist while the program erodes/accept we'll never be consistently good, 2. Downgrade the program to a lower level requiring less funding, 3. Invest in your own program.

Maybe SU wants to do things the way everyone else does it. What if that isn't an option? They're going to have to find another way.
 
Hi Cuse fans! I've been reading your board since it was announced you were joining the ACC.

Lately, I've read the raging debate / frustration over facilities, coaches, recruiting, etc. and thought I'd chime in with our experience with the same issue.

Back in the Tommy West years (1994 ish-1998) and the early Tommy Bowden years (1999-2002) we got a few 4-star guys, but never enough to build a solid program.

At that time, Tennessee was winning the NC by pillaging SC and NC for recruits right in our (and SC's) backyard (Shaun Ellis, Albert Hayneworth, etc) FSU would swoop in and steal a 4-star guy we thought we had at the last minute.

We had two main problems: 1) facilities that were once state-of-the-art and were severely lagging other ACC programs (not to mention the SEC) and 2) coaching staff.

But the root cause of both of these problems was our administration.

They held to the "it's good enough for 7-8 wins" philosophy b/c they, like a lot of academics, thought good sports programs and a respected university are mutually exclusive.

Bowden, like Marrone is doing at Cuse, pushed for facilities from day one and was promised they would be built as part of his hiring. Then they proceeded to drag their feet and were going to take some half-ass approach and cheap out like they always did. Luckily, at the same time, we hired Terry Don Phillips from OK St as our AD. He had his faults, but he was a major proponent of facilities and he changed the plan to the West Zone we have now.

He also rennovated our ancient basketball arena to put a some lipstick on the pig. It helped a litte and we had some good years under Purnell. It's still subpar and we don't have dedicated practice facilities. If they don't spend money soon, we'll lose Brad Brownell.

I saw in your debate on here that some were downplaying rennovating your locker rooms as unnecessary. DO IT! NOW! That's the first thing we did just to have something decent to show the kids as a placeholder until we could start building. It helped.

The first year the West Zone was being built, we had nothing to show recruits at all other than the spruced-up locker rooms, so Bowden had them tear up some dirt and park a bunch of construction equipment to look like it was in progress. Just that small perception impacted recruiting that year. We landed James Davis over some of the bigger programs.

Once the West Zone was complete, recruiting took off. James Davis helped land CJ Spiller who never would have come without the facilities to show commitment. It snowballed from there.

Our other problem was coaching salaries. Bowden never had enough to hire the best across the board. When Dabo took over, he wanted Ellis Johnson as his DC and EJ wanted to be at Clemson, but the admin wouldn't pony up and he ended up at our hated rival, SC.

What changed? We put major pressure on the Board of Trustees to re-emphasize football and commit to winning. We still didn't have a training table or an indoor practice facility until this year. We didn't have top-notch assistant coaches.

Fast forward to a few years ago and they approved paying Chad Morris $1.2MM and Venebles $800K, both of which are above what they refused to pay Ellis Johnson years earlier. We now have a training table in the West Zone and just opened an indoor facility.

It's no coincidence that it's the same time period we won the ACC for the first time in 20 years and went from 7-8 wins to 9-11 wins. It matters.

At Cuse right now, you are in the same boat. You have what looks to be a solid coach who can build your program back to what it used to be. Pay the man, pay for asst coaches, upgrade/ build facilities. If you pour money into it now, it will pay for itself and then some in the coming years.

I want Cuse to be good so we can make the ACC Atlantic like the SEC West.

Thoroughly enjoyed the WVU beatdown in the snow. Watched every snap. Great game!

Glad to have y'all in the conference and hope all the admin stuff works out for you.

Thanks for posting...I have 1 son who is a Clemson Alum and another who is a GT Alum...so it will be nice to 1) go see CUSE play close by (I live in ATL) and 2) pick up a rivalry between Father & Sons.
Cheers
Ed
 
I suppose I did. If the problem we have then, is a lack of donor support, what should be done? It seems there are three options: 1. Wait for the donors that don't exist while the program erodes/accept we'll never be consistently good, 2. Downgrade the program to a lower level requiring less funding, 3. Invest in your own program.

Maybe SU wants to do things the way everyone else does it. What if that isn't an option? They're going to have to find another way.

SU has to find a way to attract a couple of large donors and significantly increase the number of small donors. That is SU's fault.

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Hi Cuse fans! I've been reading your board since it was announced you were joining the ACC.

Lately, I've read the raging debate / frustration over facilities, coaches, recruiting, etc. and thought I'd chime in with our experience with the same issue.

Back in the Tommy West years (1994 ish-1998) and the early Tommy Bowden years (1999-2002) we got a few 4-star guys, but never enough to build a solid program.

At that time, Tennessee was winning the NC by pillaging SC and NC for recruits right in our (and SC's) backyard (Shaun Ellis, Albert Hayneworth, etc) FSU would swoop in and steal a 4-star guy we thought we had at the last minute.

We had two main problems: 1) facilities that were once state-of-the-art and were severely lagging other ACC programs (not to mention the SEC) and 2) coaching staff.

But the root cause of both of these problems was our administration.

They held to the "it's good enough for 7-8 wins" philosophy b/c they, like a lot of academics, thought good sports programs and a respected university are mutually exclusive.

Bowden, like Marrone is doing at Cuse, pushed for facilities from day one and was promised they would be built as part of his hiring. Then they proceeded to drag their feet and were going to take some half-ass approach and cheap out like they always did. Luckily, at the same time, we hired Terry Don Phillips from OK St as our AD. He had his faults, but he was a major proponent of facilities and he changed the plan to the West Zone we have now.

He also rennovated our ancient basketball arena to put a some lipstick on the pig. It helped a litte and we had some good years under Purnell. It's still subpar and we don't have dedicated practice facilities. If they don't spend money soon, we'll lose Brad Brownell.

I saw in your debate on here that some were downplaying rennovating your locker rooms as unnecessary. DO IT! NOW! That's the first thing we did just to have something decent to show the kids as a placeholder until we could start building. It helped.

The first year the West Zone was being built, we had nothing to show recruits at all other than the spruced-up locker rooms, so Bowden had them tear up some dirt and park a bunch of construction equipment to look like it was in progress. Just that small perception impacted recruiting that year. We landed James Davis over some of the bigger programs.

Once the West Zone was complete, recruiting took off. James Davis helped land CJ Spiller who never would have come without the facilities to show commitment. It snowballed from there.

Our other problem was coaching salaries. Bowden never had enough to hire the best across the board. When Dabo took over, he wanted Ellis Johnson as his DC and EJ wanted to be at Clemson, but the admin wouldn't pony up and he ended up at our hated rival, SC.

What changed? We put major pressure on the Board of Trustees to re-emphasize football and commit to winning. We still didn't have a training table or an indoor practice facility until this year. We didn't have top-notch assistant coaches.

Fast forward to a few years ago and they approved paying Chad Morris $1.2MM and Venebles $800K, both of which are above what they refused to pay Ellis Johnson years earlier. We now have a training table in the West Zone and just opened an indoor facility.

It's no coincidence that it's the same time period we won the ACC for the first time in 20 years and went from 7-8 wins to 9-11 wins. It matters.

At Cuse right now, you are in the same boat. You have what looks to be a solid coach who can build your program back to what it used to be. Pay the man, pay for asst coaches, upgrade/ build facilities. If you pour money into it now, it will pay for itself and then some in the coming years.

I want Cuse to be good so we can make the ACC Atlantic like the SEC West.

Thoroughly enjoyed the WVU beatdown in the snow. Watched every snap. Great game!

Glad to have y'all in the conference and hope all the admin stuff works out for you.

Great read, really puts things in perspective. Thanks for this.

And if you see any negative Clemson posts, just disregard them. It will pass. We were intertwined in the whole EBO saga for about a year so there's some hard feelings there on the part of some of the fanbase.
 

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