Coleman / Obokoh

[Brooky03]

No, but he was going to get a lot of minutes at the 5. It's tough to pencil Coleman in for 30+ for 30+ games.

If Coleman can give us 26 and Obokoh can eat up space and foul guys for 8 (like we've had players do in the past), I think we can handle two 3 minute stretches of 'small ball' each game.

 

[two3zone]

If Coleman can give us 26 and Obokoh can eat up space and foul guys for 8 (like we've had players do in the past), I think we can handle two 3 minute stretches of 'small ball' each game.

Coleman hasn't played a game in almost 2 years and has 2 knee surgeries. I hope he can give us 26 a game but I'm not going to count on it. It's going to take him awhile to get back to game speed. He was awful on defense before and we still don't know if he's improved from keeping the ball low and going up under the hoop.

Dude has a LOT of question marks.

 

[Brooky03]

Coleman hasn't played a game in almost 2 years and has 2 knee surgeries. I hope he can give us 26 a game but I'm not going to count on it. It's going to take him awhile to get back to game speed. He was awful on defense before and we still don't know if he's improved from keeping the ball low and going up under the hoop.

Dude has a LOT of question marks.

There are some question marks with Coleman; I wouldn't say there are a lot. His talent is a known commodity. The only unknown is whether or not he can stay healthy.

 

[FrancoPizza]

There are some question marks with Coleman; I wouldn't say there are a lot. His talent is a known commodity. The only unknown is whether or not he can stay healthy.

Talent is a bit of an unknown as well. He has struggled to adjust to Div 1 competition and jury is out if he's learned to stop bringing the ball down, learns how to "play big", etc. some of you talk like he was Tim Duncan before the injuries.

 

[pfister1]

There are some question marks with Coleman; I wouldn't say there are a lot. His talent is a known commodity. The only unknown is whether or not he can stay healthy.

I'd say whether he can make the jump to playing at a high level after being off for the better part of two years is also a pretty big question mark.

 

[Brooky03]

I'd say whether he can make the jump to playing at a high level after being off for the better part of two years is also a pretty big question mark.

I think you're splitting hairs, but I agree. He's played at a high level before and his health makes one wonder if he can return to that level. If 100% (or 90%) healthy, I see no reason he wouldn't be able to compete at the D1 level like he did before. The game hasn't changed and it might take a little while for him to get up to game speed, but it's not like 2 years off makes you forget how to play the game or unable to mentally keep up.

 

[Brooky03]

Talent is a bit of an unknown as well. He has struggled to adjust to Div 1 competition and jury is out if he's learned to stop bringing the ball down, learns how to "play big", etc. some of you talk like he was Tim Duncan before the injuries.

Nobody is arguing he was great or even above average when he did play. What he was, on a per minute basis, was a decent rookie center who was learning the game and showed flashes of what got him ranked as the top center out of high school. He's certainly learned a lot more about the game since then and he's not nearly as overweight now as he was.

Will he 'play big' like we want him to? IDK, but I strongly suspect he'll play much smarter than he did before the injuries.

Again, on a per minute basis - which can't necessarily be extrapolated to an entire game, but generally gets you close - he could get us 9 and 8 on near 50% shooting in 26 minutes. I'm good with this.

 

[SoBeCuse]

There are some question marks with Coleman; I wouldn't say there are a lot. His talent is a known commodity. The only unknown is whether or not he can stay healthy.

I wouldn't sugar coat it that much. Beyond some potential nice rebounding numbers and some nice outlet passes what has Coleman showed on the court? I like his "talent" but it is only that. Coming off the injury is a big deal. Will he develop any post moves? Play like his size? Not constantly bring the ball down and get stripped? I just think there are many question marks. I am sure pulling for him since he has shown incredible resilience, attitude, work ethic, etc.

 

[Brooky03]

I wouldn't sugar coat it that much. Beyond some potential nice rebounding numbers and some nice outlet passes what has Coleman showed on the court? I like his "talent" but it is only that. Coming off the injury is a big deal. Will he develop any post moves? Play like his size? Not constantly bring the ball down and get stripped? I just think there are many question marks. I am sure pulling for him since he has shown incredible resilience, attitude, work ethic, etc.

He had/has solid post moves. It seems that the biggest question other than his health is whether or not he figured out to keep the ball chest level. I would assume he has, but I'll agree it's still a question mark. Considering this is basically the same thing as asking if he can play to his size, I count like 3 question marks. Is that a lot? IDK, maybe.

I would think a player with a lot of questions marks would be one who seemed hopeless and then sat out 2 years, not a top level recruit who played reasonably close to expectations (unless people thought he was going to be an offensive machine) in limited run.

 

[two3zone]

He had/has solid post moves. It seems that the biggest question other than his health is whether or not he figured out to keep the ball chest level. I would assume he has, but I'll agree it's still a question mark. Considering this is basically the same thing as asking if he can play to his size, I count like 3 question marks. Is that a lot? IDK, maybe.

I would think a player with a lot of questions marks would be one who seemed hopeless and then sat out 2 years, not a top level recruit who played reasonably close to expectations (unless people thought he was going to be an offensive machine) in limited run.

He's never averaged more than 15 minutes a game since coming here, even his second year when he should have been ready to go and play big minutes, he still didn't. If his numbers (yes basing on numbers alone and not injuries) he's been an absolute bust with the accolades coming in.

1. Injury Bug
2. Basketball skill
3. Defense (has he learned the zone yet?)
4. Game speed and conditioning

I don't think there are any bigger question marks than the ones listed here and he has all of them. I'm not sure what you're really talking about, with all due respect.

 

[Brooky03]

He's never averaged more than 15 minutes a game since coming here, even his second year when he should have been ready to go and play big minutes, he still didn't. If his numbers (yes basing on numbers alone and not injuries) he's been an absolute bust with the accolades coming in.

1. Injury Bug
2. Basketball skill
3. Defense (has he learned the zone yet?)
4. Game speed and conditioning

I don't think there are any bigger question marks than the ones listed here and he has all of them. I'm not sure what you're really talking about, with all due respect.

He came in behind Rak and upperclassman Keita, so he was only going to get roughly 50% of the playing time at center no matter what. So 15mpg actually makes a lot of sense. He wasn't supposed to come in and light college basketball on fire. We knew he wasn't the most nimble guy, we knew he lacked athleticism, and we knew he was short for a college center. Hearing he was a good rebounder and had a polished game away from the basket, I expected something like 18mpg, 7-8ppg and maybe 6-7 boards as a Freshman. 5 and 4 isn't crazy far away from that. IDK how my expectations compare to everybody else's; I could have been more or less optimistic, but nobody should have predicted he'd go 25+ minutes and drop 14 and 10 or something like that.

I'll give you that his Sophomore season was more disappointing, but we also know now that the injury really started to bother him in his Sophomore effort.

With all due respect, his basketball skill is fine from what we've seen on the court. The only knock anybody has is that he brings the ball down. I'll bet $50 (I'm not joking), he's figured that out by now. I don't get the defense point. Yeah, he was lost at times but most Freshman centers in the zone are. He did well when offensive post players tried to establish position and, like I said earlier, he's never been a shot blocker. And game speed and conditioning is tied to the injury; it's the same question. His conditioning was fine as a Sophomore after he lost some of the baby fat.

 

[two3zone]

He came in behind Rak and upperclassman Keita, so he was only going to get roughly 50% of the playing time at center no matter what. So 15mpg actually makes a lot of sense. He wasn't supposed to come in and light college basketball on fire. We knew he wasn't the most nimble guy, we knew he lacked athleticism, and we knew he was short for a college center. Hearing he was a good rebounder and had a polished game away from the basket, I expected something like 18mpg, 7-8ppg and maybe 6-7 boards as a Freshman. 5 and 4 isn't crazy far away from that. IDK how my expectations compare to everybody else's; I could have been more or less optimistic, but nobody should have predicted he'd go 25+ minutes and drop 14 and 10 or something like that.

I'll give you that his Sophomore season was more disappointing, but we also know now that the injury really started to bother him in his Sophomore effort.

With all due respect, his basketball skill is fine from what we've seen on the court. The only knock anybody has is that he brings the ball down. I'll bet $50 (I'm not joking), he's figured that out by now. I don't get the defense point. Yeah, he was lost at times but most Freshman centers in the zone are. He did well when offensive post players tried to establish position and, like I said earlier, he's never been a shot blocker. And game speed and conditioning is tied to the injury; it's the same question. His conditioning was fine as a Sophomore after he lost some of the baby fat.

Rak was a PF when he came in, only moved to center because Coleman didn't do what he was expected to, and you think a McDonalds AA would sit behind BMK? No, your argument doesn't work.

He was lost on defense as a sophomore too, same reason he didn't play big minutes as a freshman.

His conditioning has been awful since he arrived (I'm sure its better now after looking at his pictures), he was heavy coming in, he was heavy as a sophomore.


I'm not sure why you're pulling things out of thin air. He's been a disappointment, even without the injuries. He was a big time recruit that came in and he didn't do well. It's that simple. I never once have watched him play and said to myself, "Wow, that guy is a skillful basketball player". It's no offense to him, he just isn't skillful, he's a big guy and does big guy things, some well, some not so well, that's about it.

 

[orangefan13]

Obokoh
imo, Here we have a guy with the right body tone for center to put on muscle, decent height, and he doesn't weight to much. He just needs to speed up his lateral quickness and reflexes. It is crucial as a center in the 2-3 zone to be a anchor who doesn't rely on help defense every possession.

He is a solid rebounder and shot blocker, who has shown some offensive touch with a developing hook shot.

While I wouldn't call this a reliable stat
In the 6 games where he averaged over 7 minutes he averaged 3.1 rebounds per 11.3 minutes.
Not bad for a fresh, and three of those games were Florida State at Duke and at ND.

 

[LoudHouse]

Rak was a PF when he came in, only moved to center because Coleman didn't do what he was expected to, and you think a McDonalds AA would sit behind BMK? No, your argument doesn't work.

He was lost on defense as a sophomore too, same reason he didn't play big minutes as a freshman.

His conditioning has been awful since he arrived (I'm sure its better now after looking at his pictures), he was heavy coming in, he was heavy as a sophomore.


I'm not sure why you're pulling things out of thin air. He's been a disappointment, even without the injuries. He was a big time recruit that came in and he didn't do well. It's that simple. I never once have watched him play and said to myself, "Wow, that guy is a skillful basketball player". It's no offense to him, he just isn't skil lful, he's a big guy and does big guy things, some well, some not so well, that's about it.

Rak was a PF who everyone and their mother knew would transition to center in the zone. You don't have a 7'5" wingspan and play the 4 in Boeheim's zone, especially when you are hyper athletic.

And yes, a McDonald's AA would absolutely sit behind Keita, who was already proving he could provide solid minutes at center. Do you not remember Fab Melo? He was an McD AA, and sat almost his entire freshman year, mainly because he was lost in the zone and looked like a deer in headlights out there.

I agree he's been somewhat of a disappointment, but that's mainly due to repeated injuries. He didn't have all that much time to gel with the team either season he played.

 

[orangefan13]

Rak was a PF who everyone and their mother knew would transition to center in the zone. You don't have a 7'5" wingspan and play the 4 in Boeheim's zone, especially when you are hyper athletic.

McCullough Jeremy Grant, Hakim Warrick all had 7'2 wingspans but they also had the lateral defensive quickness to play the 4, less weight,and solid centers ahead of them.

Tyler Lydon has a 6'10 wingspan just like Donte Greene had and more of a face up jumpshooting game coming in like Donte had also.

Believe it or not but I actually would have like to have had something like 2 Fab Melo's on the floor together at the same time or a combination of Fab Melo and Senior Rak. I think one of them could have made a solid 4 in that situation. But you really need to have the dribbling skill at the other three positions in a situation like that as well.

 

[two3zone]

Rak was a PF who everyone and their mother knew would transition to center in the zone. You don't have a 7'5" wingspan and play the 4 in Boeheim's zone, especially when you are hyper athletic.

Huh? If that's the case why did we even recruit Coleman...

And yes, a McDonald's AA would absolutely sit behind Keita, who was already proving he could provide solid minutes at center. Do you not remember Fab Melo? He was an McD AA, and sat almost his entire freshman year, mainly because he was lost in the zone and looked like a deer in headlights out there.

Keita proved nothing other than he was a filler during DC's first year. Do you think JB and staff drove to Jamesville and sat down with DC and told him he would sit behind a sophomore who averaged 2 points and 4 rebounds a game while Calipari was recruiting him hard as well? You don't really believe what you said here did you? This isn't Richardson coming in with 2 5th year seniors ahead of him, this is a McDonalds All American with a sophomore BMK ahead of him. Come on man...

 

[Dave85]

Huh? If that's the case why did we even recruit Coleman...
Keita proved nothing other than he was a filler during DC's first year. Do you think JB and staff drove to Jamesville and sat down with DC and told him he would sit behind a sophomore who averaged 2 points and 4 rebounds a game while Calipari was recruiting him hard as well? You don't really believe what you said here did you? This isn't Richardson coming in with 2 5th year seniors ahead of him, this is a McDonalds All American with a sophomore BMK ahead of him. Come on man...

We hope DC comes in and has a year like Christmas did last year. That would almost be beyond imagination. However, if DC plays 10 games and the knees give out then would DC be the biggest bust in Orange basketball history? I remember the video of the press conference when he put on the hat. Wow, it seems like forever ago.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

We hope DC comes in and has a year like Christmas did last year. That would almost be beyond imagination. However, if DC plays 10 games and the knees give out then would DC be the biggest bust in Orange basketball history? I remember the video of the press conference when he put on the hat. Wow, it seems like forever ago.

Guys that are hurt aren't busts.

 

[pfister1]

One thing about DC and playing time. I fully expect that he will play 35 minutes per game this coming season. He is basically a fourth year veteran player with no one really behind him. It is JB's M.O. for that kind of guy to play huge minutes.

The only thing that will prevent him from logging basically all of the minutes at center is health problems or an inability to avoid foul trouble. He is supposedly in the best shape of his life, so I don't think he is going to need a lot of rest time on the bench unless his knees can't take the pounding of full games. If the knees become a problem I suspect they will result in him missing games not sitting stretches within games. So while we are thin at center, I think we are ok unless DC's body doesn't hold up or he can't stay out of foul trouble.

 

[MSOrange]

One thing about DC and playing time. I fully expect that he will play 35 minutes per game this coming season. He is basically a fourth year veteran player with no one really behind him. It is JB's M.O. for that kind of guy to play huge minutes.

The only thing that will prevent him from logging basically all of the minutes at center is health problems or an inability to avoid foul trouble. He is supposedly in the best shape of his life, so I don't think he is going to need a lot of rest time on the bench unless his knees can't take the pounding of full games. If the knees become a problem I suspect they will result in him missing games not sitting stretches within games. So while we are thin at center, I think we are ok unless DC's body doesn't hold up or he can't stay out of foul trouble.

That's basically my thinking. I'm hoping is confidence and production will go up because of a longer leash/more minutes simply because of lack of options behind him. He'll be able to play through mistakes.

 

[LoudHouse]

Huh? If that's the case why did we even recruit Coleman...



Keita proved nothing other than he was a filler during DC's first year. Do you think JB and staff drove to Jamesville and sat down with DC and told him he would sit behind a sophomore who averaged 2 points and 4 rebounds a game while Calipari was recruiting him hard as well? You don't really believe what you said here did you? This isn't Richardson coming in with 2 5th year seniors ahead of him, this is a McDonalds All American with a sophomore BMK ahead of him. Come on man...

First, why would we NOT recruit Coleman, an McD AA from right around the corner, and close friend of Brandon Triche? We had the connection there already, of course we were going to recruit him. Is it a bad thing to have depth at center? Last year and this year seem to prove that it certainly isn't.

And do you really think Fab Melo was recruited to sit the bench as a freshman? Keita wasn't recruited to be a star, and Coleman wasn't recruited as a benchwarmer, but things happen. That was my point, not that Coleman was recruited to sit the bench. To quote you, "Come on man...".

 

[bozophobe]

One thing about DC and playing time. I fully expect that he will play 35 minutes per game this coming season. He is basically a fourth year veteran player with no one really behind him. It is JB's M.O. for that kind of guy to play huge minutes.

The only thing that will prevent him from logging basically all of the minutes at center is health problems or an inability to avoid foul trouble. He is supposedly in the best shape of his life, so I don't think he is going to need a lot of rest time on the bench unless his knees can't take the pounding of full games. If the knees become a problem I suspect they will result in him missing games not sitting stretches within games. So while we are thin at center, I think we are ok unless DC's body doesn't hold up or he can't stay out of foul trouble.

I like the optimism, but I can't imagine DC averaging anywhere near 35 minutes a game. And if he for some reason did, it might increase the risk for an Arinze-like loss during or heading into the tournaments. I see no reason why Boeheim wouldn't spread out the center minutes more (maybe 6-8 for Obokoh, and about the same with Roberson in there, maybe). I know Boeheim scoffs at the charges that he wears down his players too much, but is there really a history of him using anybody at center for 35 minutes over the course of a season?

 

[Dave85]

Guys that are hurt aren't busts.

I don't disagree. Who would you consider a bust and by what criteria?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I like the optimism, but I can't imagine DC averaging anywhere near 35 minutes a game. And if he for some reason did, it might increase the risk for an Arinze-like loss during or heading into the tournaments. I see no reason why Boeheim wouldn't spread out the center minutes more (maybe 6-8 for Obokoh, and about the same with Roberson in there, maybe). I know Boeheim scoffs at the charges that he wears down his players too much, but is there really a history of him using anybody at center for 35 minutes over the course of a season?

Rak averaged 34.3 minutes a game last year.

 

[two3zone]

Rak averaged 34.3 minutes a game last year.

Rak was pretty much healthy during his career, one of the most athletic guys we've ever had, and never had a knee surgery let along two. I'd be willing to bet anything that DC doesn't average 30 over the course of every game.