cooney 3 pt stats (outlier city)

[RF2044]

By the time Cooney is a senior we may very well be saying he's the best outside threat SU has ever had. Not at the moment, but maybe then.

I believe a team needs at least two legitimate 3 pt threats to be in good shape. SU didn't have that this year and didn't have it last year either even tho the team made it to the final 4. With Rautins and Wes Johnson, SU was golden. That team lost because of depth issues when AO went down. With GMac and Melo and to some extent Duany, that team was golden and the results showed it. Got to have a couple guys who can knock it down from deep so if one guy has a down game the other might pick things up. It probably also takes pressure off as one doesn't feel like the only guy on the team that has to knock down 3s in order to keep the defenses honest.

Next year's team needs someone to step up and become and real threat from deep besides Cooney.

I agree with your post, but improved outside shooting is only part of the equation.

We also need legitimate low post scoring to get proper floor balance. Can't just be about outside shooting.

Grant, come on down.

 

[AZOrange]

I agree with your post, but improved outside shooting is only part of the equation. We also need legitimate low post scoring to get proper floor balance. Can't just be about outside shooting. Grant, come on down.

agreed...
Btw, is it just me or does Cooney always catch the ball funny and low? Watching heslip last night he was all catch and shoot, Cooney is in some odd 3 point stance.

 

[CUSU]

No such thing as outliers, data is data. Unless of course the measuring instrument is broken.

 

[IthacaMatt]

For the season, he shot 38% from 3.

I thought it would be interesting to sort his games by 3 pt % and see how it spreads out

3 pt % for worst 8 games (roughly 1/4 the season) = 10% from 3

Worst 17 games (roughly 1/2 the season) = 17% from 3

Worst 26 games (roughly 3/4 the season) = 26%

His worst 28 games (80% of the season) = 29%

His respectable season 3pt shooting percentage comes from 7 games where he shot 75%.

Great example of how averages don't tell you everything.

Pretty stark numbers, but I'm not surprised. I said back a month or so ago that I would trade his occasional 6 or 7 threes in a game for more games with 3 or 4. His lack of consistency hurt our balance on offense badly.

But Boeheim really has to take some of the heat here. This is a couple years in a row that we've had among the worst offenses in the country. He has to spend more time working on some more sets. It's one thing to keep things simple so that talented players play instinctively, but when those few sets have been scouted and players are never open, well, it's time to re-evaluate your approach.

I like what he has done with the defense these past few seasons. It has become one of the best, year after year, in the entire country. We almost never get carved up inside like we used to 5 or 6 times every season, back before 2010.

I think that JB's job this summer is to add some new twists to his offensive approach. Like maybe starting with a big man coach who can teach the entry pass, post up and drop step or jump hook shot. All our bigs should be able to do this every year. Roy Williams and Bill Self can teach kids how to play in the post offensively and do it year after year. JB needs to step up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty stark numbers, but I'm not surprised. I said back a month or so ago that I would trade his occasional 6 or 7 threes in a game for more games with 3 or 4. His lack of consistency hurt our balance on offense badly.

But Boeheim really has to take some of the heat here. This is a couple years in a row that we've had among the worst offenses in the country. He has to spend more time working on some more sets. It's one thing to keep things simple so that talented players play instinctively, but when those few sets have been scouted and players are never open, well, it's time to re-evaluate your approach.

I like what he has done with the defense these past few seasons. It has become one of the best, year after year, in the entire country. We almost never get carved up inside like we used to 5 or 6 times every season, back before 2010.

I think that JB's job this summer is to add some new twists to his offensive approach. Like maybe starting with a big man coach who can teach the entry pass, post up and drop step or jump hook shot. All our bigs should be able to do this every year. Roy Williams and Bill Self can teach kids how to play in the post offensively and do it year after year. JB needs to step up.

Good post, but Roy Williams and Bill Self are home right now as well!

 

[Cusefan0307]

What were Cooney's numbers versus BCS schools, Big East schools?

I don't care if Cooney was good against Cornell or Colgate as he is a better than those kids. What were his numbers against good competition. I know he dominated against Villanova and Notre Dame, but about all of those games.

I thought of this after I did by 33% benchmark. I'll do it eventually. I was thinking of doing the same for Southerland, Rautins, And Gmac if I can get my hands on the Box Scores.

 

[Millhouse]

What were Cooney's numbers versus BCS schools, Big East schools?

I don't care if Cooney was good against Cornell or Colgate as he is a better than those kids. What were his numbers against good competition. I know he dominated against Villanova and Notre Dame, but about all of those games.

these are the 6 games that pulled him from 30% to 28%

Cal 81, SU 92
Nova 62, SU 78
ND 55, SU 61
HP 54, SU 75
CORN 60, SU 82
DUKE 89, SU 91

 

[Alsacs]

these are the 6 games that pulled him from 30% to 28%

Cal 81, SU 92
Nova 62, SU 78
ND 55, SU 61
HP 54, SU 75
CORN 60, SU 82
DUKE 89, SU 91

Weren't these TC best 6 games? How did they on keep him from going down 2%? I would think these are games he shot 75% from.
We only took like 3 or 4 3pt FGA attempts versus Duke in the game you used.

 

[Millhouse]

he was 33-44 from 3 those 6 games

 

[Alsacs]

he was 33-44 from 3 those 6 games

So he had 6 A+ games from Cooney.
27 games not accounted for.
I will guess and say 10 B games
7 C games
1o D/F games

78/33= 2.36 GPA basically he gets a C+ grade for the season, and I was being generous I gave him 10 D grades instead of 0 for an F.

 

[Dave85]

No such thing as outliers, data is data. Unless of course the measuring instrument is broken.

God speaks to us through experimental error. God is the force in the Universe that keeps our full understanding of nature just one step beyond our comprehension.

 

[Dave85]

So he had 6 A+ games from Cooney.
27 games not accounted for.
I will guess and say 10 B games
7 C games
1o D/F games

78/33= 2.36 GPA basically he gets a C+ grade for the season, and I was being generous I gave him 10 D grades instead of 0 for an F.

I don't think it's all Cooney's fault. I thought Donna Ditota made a really succinct comment on what was wrong with this years team offensively:

"Donna Ditota: I watched that UNC Iowa State game yesterday and loved all the offense. Players making shots, running, scoring in various ways. It was just way more fun to watch.

Syracuse's offense this year (and most of last year) has just been painful to watch. You can blame it on guys not making shots, but there needed to be more movement (both with the ball and with the players), less reliance on individual penetration. "

 

[rrlbees]

How often did he get to the line and what was his % and ppg there.

3ppg at 73%.

 

[AccuRater]

agreed...
Btw, is it just me or does Cooney always catch the ball funny and low? Watching heslip last night he was all catch and shoot, Cooney is in some odd 3 point stance.

I believe part of his problem is decision speed. Cooney often catches the ball, then waves it from side to side down around his knees for 2-3 seconds. It appears that he is trying to decide what to do. This allows time for defenders to close in on him. As a result he doesn't get an open shot or a lane to the basket.

 

[rrlbees]

So he had 6 A+ games from Cooney. 27 games not accounted for. I will guess and say 10 B games 7 C games 1o D/F games 78/33= 2.36 GPA basically he gets a C+ grade for the season, and I was being generous I gave him 10 D grades instead of 0 for an F.

Can you also grade the other players shooting game by game and also include a curve based on impact? I know you want to put the whole season ending swoon on one player but that is as narrow sighted as it gets.

 

[rrlbees]

agreed... Btw, is it just me or does Cooney always catch the ball funny and low? Watching heslip last night he was all catch and shoot, Cooney is in some odd 3 point stance.

Shooters catch the ball where it's passed. Especially in curls. I didn't see anything near the number of curls last night by heslip or anyone as we do. Lots of catch and shoot straight up and stepping into the shot.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think it's all Cooney's fault. I thought Donna Ditota made a really succinct comment on what was wrong with this years team offensively:

"Donna Ditota: I watched that UNC Iowa State game yesterday and loved all the offense. Players making shots, running, scoring in various ways. It was just way more fun to watch.

Syracuse's offense this year (and most of last year) has just been painful to watch. You can blame it on guys not making shots, but there needed to be more movement (both with the ball and with the players), less reliance on individual penetration. "

It is not all his fault, but Cooney's struggles would be the number one reason for our problems in our half court offense.

If teams were locking on him I don't know why we didn't try to get him shots in transition before defenses were set a la James Southerland. Cooney has 2 more years, but the SG position killed our offense the most IMO. Fair, Grant, Ennis all struggled in games as well, but they weren't as bad as Cooney I believe. Cooney never put the ball on the floor like Gbinije did against Dayton.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Fair went from being perhaps the most consistent and efficient SU player ever, to the opposite.

This team was so offensively challenged, it wasn't even funny. At times the defense had to worry about exactly two guys. CJ went from being one of 4 on a balanced offense (20% of FGAs) to being the key guy who took 27% of SU's FG attempts. Wes Johnson barely took 20% of SU's shots. Flynn only took 21%.

Fair took 500 shots this year in 34 games. Who was the last SU player to do that?

CJ was asked by Boeheim to carry this team on his back to a level that was not typical at Syracuse since Carmelo. And as much I've loved watching CJ be a part of this team, he's not Melo.

The Dayton game was a nightmare, every time CJ touched the ball he was double or tripled team (and he was usually touching the ball with 8 seconds on the clock). I'm sure that was defensive strategy against SU all season: double CJ, put a man on Cooney, and watch out for Grant's spin move in the lane.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Good post, but Roy Williams and Bill Self are home right now as well!

And both of them were playing without their best player. Boeheim had essentially a full complement.

 

[Alsacs]

Ennis, Fair would get better grades than Cooney. Grant scored more attacking, Gbinije didn't get enough PT to be graded fairly. Keita and Christmas didn't get enough shots to grade. The rest of the team would get an incomplete.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Shooters catch the ball where it's passed. Especially in curls. I didn't see anything near the number of curls last night by heslip or anyone as we do. Lots of catch and shoot straight up and stepping into the shot.

then by all means, SU should continue to do that.

Nah. Cooney was perfect. Everyone else failed Cooney.

 

[RichmondCuse]

I'm somewhere in the middle of this debate. I do think Cooney's struggles to hit much of anything after the Notre Dame game were the # 1 reason Syracuse struggled so badly on offense. But, it was certainly not the only reason. There were many issues with the offense as a whole.

For one, CJ Fair shares a lot of the blame. Everyone wants to focus on Cooney's inability to hit shots, but for some odd reason, the last 6 weeks or so, CJ missed countless shots that he has made consistently for over 2 years. He became very reliant on jump shots, but even when he did try to go inside, he failed to convert more often than not.

I also don't think the offense was designed properly. I think the offense would have been far more efficient if Grant were given a bigger portion of CJ's touches / shots. Grant is great at either finishing or drawing a foul. For him to have so many games where he took less than 8 shots does not seem right.

Ennis, for as much as I love him, also stopped hitting the shots he was consistently making early in the year. He was unstoppable early on with that floater in the lane, then all of a sudden he couldn't make it anymore. He finally got a bit more aggressive at the end of the year, but his % went down.

I do think Cooney was the biggest culprit of our stagnant offense, but in no way is he solely to blame. I have no idea why, but at some point this season, it's as if our entire team became infected with the inability to make shots consistently (or even sufficiently).

 

[Dave85]

It is not all his fault, but Cooney's struggles would be the number one reason for our problems in our half court offense.

If teams were locking on him I don't know why we didn't try to get him shots in transition before defenses were set a la James Southerland. Cooney has 2 more years, but the SG position killed our offense the most IMO. Fair, Grant, Ennis all struggled in games as well, but they weren't as bad as Cooney I believe. Cooney never put the ball on the floor like Gbinije did against Dayton.

I think Donna's comment is a better assessment than yours, " You can blame it on guys not making shots, but there needed to be more movement (both with the ball and with the players), less reliance on individual penetration."

Just my opinion.

 

[Alsacs]

If I was grading the Syracuse players for 2013-2014
Ennis gets an A= 4.0 GPA carried the pressure of a Frosh PG and while he wasn't perfect we had no backup and he carried the team as the leader with the ball.( I give the CALI award to Ennis as well)

Fair gets a B+= 3.33 GPA he was the option 1 by default because we had no other option 1. He is a great player when he isn't the focus of the defense, but the kid was tough as nails for the most part, but struggled somewhat and didn't play his best after we struggled.

Grant gets a B = 3.00 GPA he improved from his freshman year, but pretty much did all his scoring with 1 spin move, or off free throws or put backs. His jump shot needs to improve, but he was a key cog.

Cooney gets a C+= 2.33 GPA he played extraordinary well in 6 games, and wasn't consistent enough at the SG position and gave us a consistent outside threat. Kid has room to improve, but I am giving him what he earned.

Rak/Keita/Gbinije/rest of the team get incompletes.

 

[Alsacs]

I think Donna's comment is a better assessment than yours, " You can blame it on guys not making shots, but there needed to be more movement (both with the ball and with the players), less reliance on individual penetration."

Just my opinion.

Fair enough I am not going to tell anybody to change their opinions on something that is completely subjective. I think Cooney stunk for the last 2 months and if JB played Gbinije to start the 2nd half on Saturday I think we have a better chance to win.