Could sports be in danger at Syracuse?

[FRANKIEFAN]

You either don’t have daughters, or don’t have daughters that play college sports. Either way, you embarrass yourself with that attitude

It’s not really male/female thing I feel the same way about non revenue male sports programs. And as student athletes I am not sure they should be spending all that time practicing and traveling. Doesn’t matter if it’s men’s swimming or women’s swimming same thing only folks who care are the athletes and their parents.

Title IX is the reason for bloated athletic departments that lose a fortune outside of FB and BB which in turn is the main argument for why players can’t be paid (because these ADs in general tend to break even or lose some money overall.)

Now taking a step back sports aside higher ed has probably been dealt a haymaker by this. It’s one thing that can’t fail every community needs its local college/university both to provide employment and future skilled labor. It’s a shame FB and BB can’t be bastions of revenue because they are forced to pick up the tab for non revenue programs.

 

[SUFan44]

All schools are going to be hit hard, at every level, regardless of what the athletic impact is.

If there is no fall semester and no dorms open, you will see many schools closed. Many very qualified people looking for work. And a lot of small cities/big towns without a big piece of their economy.

Those schools that do stay open, I do not believe there will be cuts to salaries across the board but I do believe there will be a lot of sports that are cut. And some positions that will be absolved. On-campus programming will suffer and the college experience will, too.

Going to be very interesting -- but I do know one thing. A lot of schools need to re-open their dorms by fall in some form. Only a select few will be OK with the online only format. Problem is, I'm not sure I see a great path to allow this to happen right now. Unless the virus magically vanishes, like our eloquent president so boldly stated months ago.

 

[GonzoInMD]

Do you want a decent Olympic team? If so, then you need the non-revenue sports.

 

[sufandu]

Saying Title IX has to go and that women's sports such as field hockey don't matter is up there as one of the worst takes I've read on here.

Baseball and softball both attract more viewers than lacrosse nationwide. Lacrosse is definitely expanding but its still a relatively niche sport when comparing it to baseball/softball.

Are College Baseball And Softball The NCAA’s Best Bet For Growth?

But are we missing an even better opportunity in college baseball? Is even that too shortsighted? Should we consider softball as impactful a driver of growth as baseball? I’d say so. In our quest to find a third revenue stream for the NCAA, let’s start with the sports that finish the NCAA...

www.athleticdirectoru.com

Numbers on tv viewership for this stuff is hard to find but attendance across the country makes it clear that more people turn out for baseball than lacrosse. The highest average attendance is about five thousand more in baseball (LSU) than lax (us). I'd imagine those numbers translate to viewership. With that said, I'm sure putting every Cuse lacrosse game over a Georgia Tech softball game on the ACCN would be good for their viewership numbers.

And the bigger picture has nothing to do with TV viewership. It's about opportunity to participate. If anyone thinks that all that matters in college sports is TV ratings, we have completely lost all perspective about what they're supposed to be in the first place. I guess we need to just get rid of all D2 and D3 sports. While we're at it, lets get rid of all of the high school sports that don't draw crowds too.

 

[kcsu]

I find it odd that nobody mentions the worlds military. None have closed. The soldiers have not been sent home. They still live in close contact. 1000's of ships and submarines are still operational. There is no widespread death. The vast majority of people who get the virus are fine. If true rates of the disease were known the death rate would be less than 1%.
Social distancing works as a tool relative to the distribution of medical resources. It doesn't stop, cure, or prevent the virus. Only mass exposure or a vaccine can achieve that. Exposure will come first. Swedens approach of specific isolation might be the blue print for the relaxation of social distancing. As to football this fall i dont expect it to be played without one of two things happening.
1: All participants having been tested and cleared.
2: A vaccine.

I seriously doubt that there will be any spectators until there is a vaccine. Sporting events and all mass gatherings will be precluded or not attended until there is one.

 

[CusefanATL]

The title 9 comment is possibly the dumbest game I’ve seen on here in a long time and they should be ashamed

i bet close to 100% if not 100% of the upcoming programs folding will be mens non revenue sports.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I find it odd that nobody mentions the worlds military. None have closed. The soldiers have not been sent home. They still live in close contact. 1000's of ships and submarines are still operational. There is no widespread death. The vast majority of people who get the virus are fine. If true rates of the disease were known the death rate would be less than 1%.
Social distancing works as a tool relative to the distribution of medical resources. It doesn't stop, cure, or prevent the virus. Only mass exposure or a vaccine can achieve that. Exposure will come first. Swedens approach of specific isolation might be the blue print for the relaxation of social distancing. As to football this fall i dont expect it to be played without one of two things happening.
1: All participants having been tested and cleared.
2: A vaccine.

I seriously doubt that there will be any spectators until there is a vaccine. Sporting events and all mass gatherings will be precluded or not attended until there is one.

My wife's cousin is in the ME. He pretty much is social distanced right now and has been taken off his scheduled mission temporarily. Also you can't believe what comes out of any governments mouth.

 

[cuse10]

You either don’t have daughters, or don’t have daughters that play college sports. Either way, you embarrass yourself with that attitude

I don't, but you clearly have enough estrogen running in your household to rub off on you.

 

[SUFan44]

i bet close to 100% if not 100% of the upcoming programs folding will be mens non revenue sports.

There will be many others, women's sports too. Most schools are going to be chopping to 14-15-16 sports. I could see SU eliminating both track & field teams. That would get them to 16.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I never understood the mandate that a school had to fund unprofitable sports. Seems like the definition of socialism. If soccer or swimming or whatever is consistently in the red, why is there an obligation to keep it on life support at the expense of other needs?

 

[FloridaFan]

I never understood the mandate that a school had to fund unprofitable sports. Seems like the definition of socialism. If soccer or swimming or whatever is consistently in the red, why is there an obligation to keep it on life support at the expense of other needs?

Sports shouldnt be about profit at the college level imo

 

[FrancoPizza]

Do you want a decent Olympic team? If so, then you need the non-revenue sports.

unless it’s SU basketball vs the world I don’t care about winning the Olympics. It’s just entertainment.

 

[elimunelson]

I never understood the mandate that a school had to fund unprofitable sports. Seems like the definition of socialism. If soccer or swimming or whatever is consistently in the red, why is there an obligation to keep it on life support at the expense of other needs?

Well then let's get of the departments while we're at it and run Syracuse like a professional sports operation.

That's just foolish. I assume you didn't go to SU. I care about the school first not the sports that make money. My entire point is schools are gonna look at things ALOT differently if dorms aren't open in the fall and their revenue base shrinks. At some point there will be an all clear and i'm wondering if these leagues give thought to how they want their non revenue sports traveling (translation, how much they want to spend to travel them).

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I never understood the mandate that a school had to fund unprofitable sports. Seems like the definition of socialism. If soccer or swimming or whatever is consistently in the red, why is there an obligation to keep it on life support at the expense of other needs?

There is no obligation. It is socialism. Even your Alabamas, Kentuckys, LSUs, etc. gladly take millions each year in financial support from the Federal government. One of the things that is asked in return is that they don't discriminate on the basis of gender. Seems like a pretty fair condition to me.

Please, tell me about the football and basketball programs at Hillsdale or Grove City College (two or the more well-known, well-respected institutions that do not accept Federal aid)?

It is however, my general understanding, that even at D3 schools the athletic programs do produce some revenue in the form of student applications and then enrollments. Particular programs where the student-athletes tend to come from better socio-economic backgrounds and go on to pay full freight (cough - lacrosse - cough).

 

[SUFan44]

Sports shouldnt be about profit at the college level imo

All Olympic sports usually generate a revenue per student-athlete based on very few getting full scholarships.

In fact, at the majority of institutions the only sports that lose money are MBB, WBB, FB, VB & Tennis (full ride counter sports).

 

[FireballPhil]

It's not the distance-other than from a fan's perspective- it is travel in general. Is it any safer to fly a charter to N.C. than it is to take a bus to NYC? Buses carry germs too. How many schools that we would play are in bigger cities such as NYC and Boston, where the general population is high and viruses spread quicker versus going to a Greensboro or such?There is always a trade off.

 

[HoustonCuse]

My wife's cousin is in the ME. He pretty much is social distanced right now and has been taken off his scheduled mission temporarily. Also you can't believe what comes out of any governments mouth.

What is the ME?

As to the comment about the military, there is the very public case of the USS Teddy Roosevelt. I read that one sailor has passed away from that group. Honestly still a tiny percentage and well within the expectation the Navy would have for a typical deployment let alone a combat deployment.

 

[Cusefan0307]

What is the ME?

As to the comment about the military, there is the very public case of the USS Teddy Roosevelt. I read that one sailor has passed away from that group. Honestly still a tiny percentage and well within the expectation the Navy would have for a typical deployment let alone a combat deployment.

Middle East.

 

[rrlbees]

I never understood the mandate that a school had to fund unprofitable sports. Seems like the definition of socialism. If soccer or swimming or whatever is consistently in the red, why is there an obligation to keep it on life support at the expense of other needs?

Athletics are part of the learning and growing process.

 

[rrlbees]

I find it odd that nobody mentions the worlds military. None have closed. The soldiers have not been sent home. They still live in close contact. 1000's of ships and submarines are still operational. There is no widespread death. The vast majority of people who get the virus are fine. If true rates of the disease were known the death rate would be less than 1%.
Social distancing works as a tool relative to the distribution of medical resources. It doesn't stop, cure, or prevent the virus. Only mass exposure or a vaccine can achieve that. Exposure will come first. Swedens approach of specific isolation might be the blue print for the relaxation of social distancing. As to football this fall i dont expect it to be played without one of two things happening.
1: All participants having been tested and cleared.
2: A vaccine.

I seriously doubt that there will be any spectators until there is a vaccine. Sporting events and all mass gatherings will be precluded or not attended until there is one.

You’re missing 3 key points. One, that navy ship now has 550 positive cases with 1 death. Two, the military has put into place mitigation strategies. Three, the military, especially now, doesn’t interact with the general population like we do.

 

[Hoo's That]

Two things to keep in mind -

Right now, the majority of students in college are women. How much longer will they be willing to subsidize sports for men through fees, donations, or attendance? Will Sugar Mommies give as much to football as Sugar Daddies do?

UVa has found that non-rev athletes give more money to the academic and athletic sides of the house than football or basketball players do on both an absolute and per-capita basis.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

As for the military how could the older generation do this to us and put us in this position after seeing their fellow albeit less privileged friends shipped off to Vietnam for no reason and talking about love and all that. It’s terrible how bloated the military industrial complex is and how much of our budget it takes up and it’s never questioned. We have 2 oceans for defense and won 2 world wars with literally no standing army prior to them.

Not to mention bucking against public healthcare... ‘I get it through work so go screw your self’ or ‘why didn’t you work harder in school hurry up and pour my coffee.’ Can you imagine how high the cost of private health insurance after this will be? If you have pre existing conditions can you even get it? What the bills that everyone who went to the hospital for covid will be even with insurance? Not to mention we haven’t built ANY public housing since the 60s when the folks making decisions had actually fought in a justified war.


Universities can be something of an outlier in this. I’d have rather entered SU in 08 to leave in 12 than left during a time like right now. Lots of friends who wound up with great jobs still had 12 month job searches. Test every student/faculty in August and you should be OK to go. If this kicks up again being trapped in a dorm will be much better than your parents place for a 19 year old. After old people in nursing homes I feel the worst for 16-22 year olds going through this.

 

[Orangejet]

Now is the perfect time to add sports like Syracuse Men's Hockey so we can beat up on BC and Penn State in a few years.

 

[hungrychuck]

I find it odd that nobody mentions the worlds military. None have closed. The soldiers have not been sent home. They still live in close contact. 1000's of ships and submarines are still operational. There is no widespread death. The vast majority of people who get the virus are fine. If true rates of the disease were known the death rate would be less than 1%.
Social distancing works as a tool relative to the distribution of medical resources. It doesn't stop, cure, or prevent the virus. Only mass exposure or a vaccine can achieve that. Exposure will come first. Swedens approach of specific isolation might be the blue print for the relaxation of social distancing. As to football this fall i dont expect it to be played without one of two things happening.
1: All participants having been tested and cleared.
2: A vaccine.

I seriously doubt that there will be any spectators until there is a vaccine. Sporting events and all mass gatherings will be precluded or not attended until there is one.

Think about the composition of the military. Is it younger or older? Younger, right?

Now let's look at fitness. Are they more fit or less fit than the general population? More fit, correct?

So we have just eliminated two of the biggest risk factors in getting really sick with Covid-19: advanced age and poor physical condition, whether that be an underlying illness or obesity.

So not a shocker that the numbers would be different for the military.

 

[SUFan44]

Two things to keep in mind -

Right now, the majority of students in college are women. How much longer will they be willing to subsidize sports for men through fees, donations, or attendance? Will Sugar Mommies give as much to football as Sugar Daddies do?

UVa has found that non-rev athletes give more money to the academic and athletic sides of the house than football or basketball players do on both an absolute and per-capita basis.

Again, if you look at it from a dollars and cents perspective, the majority of student-athletes in non-revenue sports have a bill to pay. They're not on full rides.

Taking a look at UVA, women's lacrosse has 32 student-athletes on its roster. They are permitted to give 12 full scholarships, per NCAA rules. There could be one or two that are on full athletic rides, but the vast majority have a bill. You can argue what the cost of that 12 scholarships is. I would argue room and board, as tuition doesn't cost the school anything to give (classrooms are going to be open). So that's $196,000 cost to the school.

For argument purposes, say 12 of those student-athletes are given full rides. This is assuming Virginia is fully funded in women's lacrosse (I'm sure they are - but some other sports may not be). 20 kids would be getting zero athletic scholarship. Meaning they will, at the end of the day, rely on institutional aid, federal grants, academic scholarships and out-of-pocket funds to pay for tuition, room and board.

UVA costs, according to its website, $33K (rounding) for in-state members and $67K for out-of-state College of Arts & Sciences students. Again, for simplicity, assume all are in CAS (other schools cost between $2K-6K more per year). There are 6 in-state kids on UVA's WLAX roster. The average need-based grant received by all UVA students is $23,439.

Do the math and that's a $9,561 net tuition revenue surplus for each in-state kid and a whopping $43,561 NTR for out-of-state kids. Which means, if all women's lacrosse players are getting, on average, what all other students get in financial aid, the program was a net surplus to the institution of $667,200 this year.

Per EADA's Equity in Athletics site, the total operating budget of the WLAX program was $276,136. Add in salaries which are probably in the $250K range for head coach, assistant coach, etc., and you're looking at roughly $625K expenses. That's a net surplus for running the program. Additionally, WLAX does sell tickets to their events, I'm sure has an alumni base that gives annually.

I would guess there is a very minimal cost associated with running the women's lacrosse program, but the added value for these student-athletes, coaches, and the student body is much greater.