Duke postgame thread

[cuseguy]

But I thought it was best freshman class ever?

Not even close. Mintz saved this class. We were ready to run with Copeland until smarter minds prevailed. Carey, Bell and Brown were all plan B recruits.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Not even close. Mintz saved this class. We were ready to run with Copeland until smarter minds prevailed. Carey, Bell and Brown were all plan B recruits.

Exactly!

 

[Bulldog04]

He doesn't like when it's implied that he missed out on a recruit.

Yeah because he worked sooo hard on personally recruiting him. He has zero to be mad at because he barely tried with Kyle. (Not saying anything to you or your comment). But he’s delusional and he acts that way because he knows if he put forth SOME effort, he may have gotten a commitment before the big boys came along

 

[Dave]

Jon Scheyer is a better coach than Jim Boeheim

O.M.G.

 

[kcsu]

JB quote from SWC75's report on last week's call-in show.

He’s 72 and was in coaching for 50 years. That’s enough. When you retire and you’re past 70 – you do nothing.”

Last post in the thread. Surprised no board discussion of this JB quote(?)
The inference that 50 years coaching is enough?
When you're past 70 and retired, you do nothing?

Re-read this loaded quote a few times. Unable to process/make sense of it.
JB said K is doing well, happy, then follows that with "when you retire and you're past 70, you do nothing"(?)
Approaching age 80, is "doing nothing" JB's fear of life after retirement, and why he can't retire though the program is in long-term decline and coaching is no longer fun?
I think that is the bottom line explaining this ongoing bizarre scenario.
JB is afraid to retire.

At his core Jim is very insecure. Its why hes a borderline bully towards anyone who threatens him. Its why he is afraid of change.
Jim get an enormous amount of credit and praise for being loyal to SU.
What most don't understand is that his "loyalty " is driven by his needs. He stayed because its what he does, its who he is. Not out if some altruistic sense of helping SU.
This is a man who held onto his flip phone and made his kids return a Christmas present Iphone.
He doesn't know anything other than SU basketball. Hes scared out of his mind to retire.

 

[Bulldog04]

So this thread has also turned into a JB thread, and less about tonight's game. Maybe that is telling us something. So tonight a large game watch was held in AZ. Now there are a couple of goals for alumni engagement. Some are the obvious ones, and most of all it is to keep alumni engaged, connected and excited about our school. In the end the hope is for funds to be raised. Well this program is now becoming an anti fundraiser. Pretty much the topic for the last 30 minutes of the game, and for 30 minutes after the game was about when will he go. Did anyone want to get together again this year to do another game watch...no. So there is the bottom line. This goes well beyond game and the sport. It is putting a huge dent in the ability to engage our alumni, and it is hard to give them that warm fuzzy feeling about SU right now. Another big topic, the treatment of the student reporter, and how the coach should be a teacher, mentor, etc of our students, not just our athletes. They all thought his behavior towards that student alone should be disqualifying for him. The fact that we are mostly talking about this, shows how deep and how far it has come. I spent a lot of time keeping my ears open and listening to these conversations going on at 6-8 different tables.
My last point, is this can not be fun for this man. He is not having a good time. So is it just too hard to walk away? Probably. Go watch Buddy play. Go overseas and watch Jimmy play. Be a mentor for the SU program going forward, without being the coach. We aren't going to forget about you. We are just ready for the next gear of SU basketball.

I wanna put this on a billboard outside The Dome. Probably the best post about the program I’ve read on here. The validity, the seriousness, this is a thought looking at a program from 30,000 feet the right way. I wish JW could see what you wrote

 

[OrangeMojo]

I will not join the vicious lynch mob and rip on a man that has done so much and bern such a big part of my life as a cny sports junkie and a fanatical Orange fan. A man who has also raised millions of dollars for Cancer Research. I believe it’s time for him to say good bye , but I will wait for him to get to that conclusion patiently …. because he deserves my patience.

The “vicious lynch mob” - Adios of here - there’s nothing vicious about pointing out the FACTS that this man is no longer effective at his job and is letting his ego hold the program hostage.

It’s great that he brings back such fond memories for you - but he’s now depriving an entire group of students and fans from building similar strong feelings and fond memories. He has ruined my attempts to build a strong connection to SU basketball for my boys b/c for the vast majority of the last 7 years - their formative sports years - he has rolled out boring and predictable teams.

I can only imagine it’s had the same effect on the connection the students/young alumni have felt during these years. He’s prioritized himself over the school and fan base that have done so much for him and his family - why should the fans still feel loyalty to him at this point when he’s only thinking about himself?

 

[richmondcuse03]

We had one player tonight….one….who could put the ball on the floor and beat his defender.

Judah.

At this point, I seriously question whether our assistants are truly that powerless or they don’t know how to design offensive sets. I can’t support any of them because honestly….what do they do? JB is a hands off practice kind of guy. What are the assistants doing? I’d take watching YouTube videos of offensive sets at this point.

 

[richmondcuse03]

JB quote from SWC75's report on last week's call-in show.

He’s 72 and was in coaching for 50 years. That’s enough. When you retire and you’re past 70 – you do nothing.”

Last post in the thread. Surprised no board discussion of this JB quote(?)
The inference that 50 years coaching is enough?
When you're past 70 and retired, you do nothing?

Re-read this loaded quote a few times. Unable to process/make sense of it.
JB said K is doing well, happy, then follows that with "when you retire and you're past 70, you do nothing"(?)
Approaching age 80, is "doing nothing" JB's fear of life after retirement, and why he can't retire though the program is in long-term decline and coaching is no longer fun?
I think that is the bottom line explaining this ongoing bizarre scenario.
JB is afraid to retire.

Yup. I’m sure being the son of an undertaker plays into it too.

 

[Manleymen]

Our starting guards each had one assist in this game……

 

[richmondcuse03]

At his core Jim is very insecure. Its why hes a borderline bully towards anyone who threatens him. Its why he is afraid of change.
Jim get an enormous amount of credit and praise for being loyal to SU.
What most don't understand is that his "loyalty " is driven by his needs. He stayed because its what he does, its who he is. Not out if some altruistic sense of helping SU.
This is a man who held onto his flip phone and made his kids return a Christmas present Iphone.
He doesn't know anything other than SU basketball. Hes scared out of his mind to retire.

Work with some older successful people like JB. This is spot on.

 

[Cuse'91]

I wonder if the JB situation is playing a role across the coaching landscape. I could definitely imagine Jay Wright thinking to himself - Man, I don't want to go out like Boeheim.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Hes scared out of his mind to retire.

What’s baffling is the university can’t help find him another job so that he can keep “working”. didn’t the west Genesee girls coach just resign? There’s no shame in high school coaching Jim. im sure Ryan Blackwell would gladly take him on.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Our point guard had 1 assist and the most shot attempts.

Hard to have assists when people don’t put the ball in the basket

 

[hoopsupstate]

It’s all about talent. Just watching the two teams warm up last night was startling. The difference in size, strength and athleticism was noticeable. I hate to say it, but it was a little embarrassing. I said earlier in the week that Duke is not a great three point shooting team but they have several players who can make them. Six made them last night. We talked all week about how good a rebounding team they were and it showed. They are also the best defensive team in the ACC. They are better defensively than Virginia. They dominated Virginia, but their 22, mostly careless turnovers was the difference, plus a brain lock from the officials at the end of the game. This is another young Duke team, without top five talent. Scheyer is doing a great job with this bunch. They are very well coached and they play hard. You can’t ask more from a first year coach.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Our guards were the furthest thing from our biggest issue

Yeah. That was worst performance by the front court in years. JB did it to himself in the off-season by not finding legit forwards.

Edwards has turned into Chukwu the past few games. His hands are awful.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It’s all about talent. Just watching the two teams warm up last night was startling. The difference in size, strength and athleticism was noticeable. I hate to say it, but it was a little embarrassing. I said earlier in the week that Duke is not a great three point shooting team but they have several players who can make them. Six made them last night. We talked all week about how good a rebounding team they were and it showed. They are also the best defensive team in the ACC. They are better defensively than Virginia. They dominated Virginia, but their 22, mostly careless turnovers was the difference, plus a brain lock from the officials at the end of the game. This is another young Duke team, without top five talent. Scheyer is doing a great job with this bunch. They are very well coached and they play hard. You can’t ask more from a first year coach.

I’m sorry, but you’re overrating that team and the job Scheyer is doing immensely. There’s a reason they have 8 losses. They have 5 of the top 25 freshmen including 3 in the top 10.

 

[Scooch]

JB has had a “way” of coaching and scheming that has been wildly successful for decades when he had highly talented players.

He doesn’t have that kind of talent anymore. We don’t have a single do-it-all type of player, and we haven’t for a while. Imagine if we had a Kris Joseph or Todd Burgan on this squad.

And that’s because JB stopped grinding on the recruiting trail years ago, and there’s no one on the staff who can pick up that slack.

I’ll say it over and over: in the 6 years prior to 2017 we had 15 top 100 recruits. Since 2017 we’ve had 3.

 

[Bulldog04]

At this point, I seriously question whether our assistants are truly that powerless or they don’t know how to design offensive sets. I can’t support any of them because honestly….what do they do? JB is a hands off practice kind of guy. What are the assistants doing? I’d take watching YouTube videos of offensive sets at this point.

When’s the last time you saw an assistant draw up a play or even TALK to the head coach during the game?? Honestly it has not happened in the entire time I’ve known the assistants that are here.

I posted about 2 months ago how MSU won a game late after a great in bounds play and first thing Izzo said “man the assistants had a play ready to go and it was perfectly executed”.

JB allows them to “coach” during practice but he ain’t letting him do anything offense related (because there really isn’t an offense other than double fist or elbow or the high screen. That’s their offense) and he thinks that is good enough.

JB financially takes really really good care of those guys but he doesn’t let them be true assistant coaches to help him. Because he thinks he knows more

 

[charleston]

I wonder if the JB situation is playing a role across the coaching landscape. I could definitely imagine Jay Wright thinking to himself - Man, I don't want to go out like Boeheim.

I have said it before ...you cannot play a zone with the way kids shoot today ...it's like playing a game of HORSE against us with little energy spent on offense ...he said he would play M to M this year after last years dissaster because the fans were on him ...again we are almost dead last in D1 three point shots against us and it's hard to rebound out of a zone ...who do you box out?...he toyed with us for two games but the "zone" is his basketball persona!! ...and don't tell me his kids cannot play M to M..they did until they came to cuse!. he is too stubborn to change ...we win when only when the other team has an off shooting night...otherwise we are easy to beat...look at the data. In 2019 we were ranked 6th in "college basketballs 10 best ranked programs" ...we are now in a free fall...TIME TO GO with dignity Jim!

 

[Cusefan0307]

It should be noted that Notre Dame has less talent and athleticism than us, only lost to Duke by 4, and had a legit chance to win in Cameron.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The offense is just junk. I couldn’t count how many passes were thrown at knees, into or thru a mob of players, or at players who weren’t expecting the ball.

I love Maliq as a frosh PF and his quick instincts but he’s not the guy to get the ball at the FT line to try and dribble. Joe missed Jesse at least three times on rolls to the hoop because he was too slow to get him the ball. Jesse was just missing and dropping balls because he was doubled all game and he was rushing. I have no idea what Bell was doing out there, that push shot three attempt was garbage.

It’s maddening to watch these kids try to play when they look completely unprepared.

 

[Scooch]

The offense is just junk. I couldn’t count how many passes were thrown at knees, into or thru a mob of players, or at players who weren’t expecting the ball.

I love Maliq as a frosh PF and his quick instincts but he’s not the guy to get the ball at the FT line to try and dribble. Joe missed Jesse at least three times on rolls to the hoop because he was too slow to get him the ball. Jesse was just missing and dropping balls because he was doubled all game and he was rushing. I have no idea what Bell was doing out there, that push shot three attempt was garbage.

It’s maddening to watch these kids try to play when they look completely unprepared.

Yup. People are focused on the zone, but honestly we would’ve lost even if we played lock down man D. We couldn’t score. It was atrocious.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It should be noted that Notre Dame has less talent and athleticism than us l, only lost to Duke by 4, and had a legit chance to win in Cameron.

I think there’s talent & ability here, but they’re not being given the tools to succeed.

Then again all the kids who have transferred haven’t exactly been lighting it up at other programs. Shrug.

That was embarrassing to watch.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think there’s talent & ability here, but they’re not being given the tools to succeed.

Then again all the kids who have transferred haven’t exactly been lighting it up at other programs. Shrug.

That was embarrassing to watch.

The front court was an abomination last night. This game was lost in the summer when we didn’t even try to keep Swider or go after a legit forward.

And Edwards has regressed the past few games. His hands are terrible.