Ennis, NBA "stock," and ???

[Full_Rebar]

There were plenty available, but all but one or two of them opted to stay in school.

Ok, so that's how Ennis ends up a 1st rd pick...am I not following something?

 

[Jasoncuse]

If we hadn't started 25-0, TE's stock wouldn't have been nearly as high as it was. A very good 22-3 start and he doesn't get nearly the respect he got. I still think that played a huge part in his draft stock last year

 

[pearl31]

Ok, so that's how Ennis ends up a 1st rd pick...am I not following something?

Why did those more-worthy/as-wothy players not make themselves available?

 

[Full_Rebar]

Why did those more-worthy/as-wothy players not make themselves available?

Which ones specifically? Dunn from Providence was injured almost all of last year. Jackson is listed at 6'1 and had 55 assists and 37 To's last year, and Perrantes shot 33% from the field last year so maybe those guys weren't getting any 1st rd guarantees. Paige from UNC should have left.

I think many people think Ennis was told that Toronto would take him at 20 as a worst case scenario so he was fine with that

 

[sufandu]

What does it say about NBA scouts when our team having such a good start can have so much influence about what they think about an individual player?

 

[Full_Rebar]

What does it say about NBA scouts when our team having such a good start can have so much influence about what they think about an individual player?

That they value winning?

 

[sufandu]

That they value winning?

I suppose. I would think they need to have the ability to look beyond team results and see individual talent. Maybe we're being to harsh on TE.

 

[two3zone]

Why did those more-worthy/as-wothy players not make themselves available?

He was the 5th point guard taken so there were many available.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I suppose. I would think they need to have the ability to look beyond team results and see individual talent. Maybe we're being to harsh on TE.

I think he'll be a solid backup PG.

 

[pearl31]

I don't know, maybe it was a perfect storm of sorts last spring. The 25-0 start, the relatively shallow draft pool... I'm just saying it's clear to me THIS YEAR there are plenty of guards just as good as, or better than, Tyler Ennis that will not get drafted anywhere near where he did last year. Good for him, I suppose.

 

[reedny]

Ennis was the Point Guard at Syracuse. Lots more exposure comes with that. ND and UVa are both having great years but they ain't Syracuse. Not only the profile of the school, but also the recent history of guards coming out of SU and the fact that the Hall of Famer handed him the keys lock, stock, and barrel - those add a lot to a kid's credibility. Add to that, we were ranked #1 for a while and got tons of press for being undefeated for a long time. Duke #1 was more exposure for TE than most players get in a lifetime (including NBA players). The shot against Pitt was icing on the cake.

Not only did he get the keys ... he took over as a freshman and showed some serious poise running a D-1 high-major program in its first year in the ACC -- a team that was National #1 for much of the year with 25 straight wins. Lack of inside scoring eventually took its toll. But even so, he played well in the tournament and put up numbers at least as good as the other guards mentioned. The shot he made at Pitt, alone, made him a household name in college hoops and, I'm sure, didn't hurt with the scouts.

 

[Ward]

Right, and I guess my point mostly is... how in the he11 did his stock get that high at all? He was a solid PG, no doubt, made a few clutch shots, and...

Come on, are we really simplifying what he was last year to just "a solid PG" who "made a few clutch shots"? That statement loses you all credibility in this discussion. He was great last year. To run a team the way he did and never make mistakes from day one as a true freshman, to come up big over and over down the stretch and to basically never make any mistakes was incredible. He was a great college point guard who played great for us. I'm not real sure what your secret agenda is with this thread but it's absurd.

 

[pearl31]

Come on, are we really simplifying what he was last year to just "a solid PG" who "made a few clutch shots"? That statement loses you all credibility in this discussion. He was great last year. To run a team the way he did and never make mistakes from day one as a true freshman, to come up big over and over down the stretch and to basically never make any mistakes was incredible. He was a great college point guard who played great for us. I'm not real sure what your secret agenda is with this thread but it's absurd.

No agenda, and not trying to diminish anything he did. I think that yes, he was mostly a solid PG for us who had a few spectacular moments throughout the season. As did CJ Fair. As did Jerami Grant. I do not think TE was any kind of superstar or AA player. I think you might be exaggerating what he actually did last year.
And that's not the point of this thread, anyway. I was just marveling how there are a number of excellent PGs THIS YEAR who are at least at TE's last-year level, that will not get drafted anywhere near where he did. So again, good for Tyler. :noidea:

 

[realorange]

I don't believe there is an exaggeration in calling what Ennis did last year great. Even JB said they seldom had to tell Tyler anything during a game, he just seemed to know what to do and figured it out himself. A first year player in one of the toughest conferences in the USA that didn't have to have his coach looking over his shoulder every minute and you just think he was solid??!! :noidea:

 

[jordoo]

I'll never understand under rating one of our guys because he went and got himself drafted higher than many expected. I say even more evidence that Tyler Ennis is one smart dude. Just wait and see but I expect Ennis has a very nice long lengthy career in the NBA. He needs to sure up his defense and there are going to be some PG's he just cannot guard but his shooting will improve and being surrounded by guys who can score he will get better and better running offenses the way that the coaches want it. People severely underrate having a PG who can run the offense the coach wants and get it to the guys he wants to have the ball in the right spots. Jackson and Perentes are very good college guards and I think Ennis was and is much better than both but even if you believe they are better than him it only highlights what a great decision he made to enter the draft and almost be a lottery pick after 1 season while these guys aren't going to do that even after 2 seasons.

 

[NYCorange]

What people seem to forget when comparing TE to other guards (both in draft and college terms) is that Ennis was a freshman last year. Saying you'd rather have had "x pg" than Ennis when "x pg" happens to be a sophomore, junior, or senior now is not a true comparison. Just as those guards got better after their freshman year, Ennis would have also. Take Demetrious Jackson for example, last year as a freshman, he averaged 6 points, 1.8 assists, and 1.2 TO per game. Ennis averaged 12.9 points, 5.5 assists, 2.1 steals, and 1.7 TO per game. Jackson's stats this year are similar, but not as good as Ennis' stats as a freshman. Ennis this year, might have averaged 15 pts, 8 ast, 3 steals, and 2 TO a game. That's why younger players get drafted in the NBA. The (often correct) assumption is that they have more development coming.

 

[jgeorge322]

OK, so a year later I'm still a bit mystified at how scouts, GMs, talking heads came to the conclusion that TE was a borderline lotto pick last year...
and my confusion is only compounded when I look around at various seemingly similar prospects this year - let's take two in the ACC for example - Demetrius Jackson of ND and London Perrantes of UVa... both sophomores and both having terrific years running the point for their highly ranked teams. Perrantes isn't as athletic as TE, but certainly has the "poise" thing in spades, is an unflappable quarterback of their offense and is considerably better shooter than TE... Jackson is very athletic, a much better shooter and is also a very good on-ball defender... and both have an extra year of experience under their belts...
and yet, as far as I've been able to tell in looking around at mock drafts, neither is projected anywhere at all in the upcoming draft.
I just don't get it, and don't think I ever will.

did you watch jackson the other night? he's no tyler ennis.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't believe there is an exaggeration in calling what Ennis did last year great. Even JB said they seldom had to tell Tyler anything during a game, he just seemed to know what to do and figured it out himself. A first year player in one of the toughest conferences in the USA that didn't have to have his coach looking over his shoulder every minute and you just think he was solid??!! :noidea:

This is the problem with the current state of college hoops. I really feel like Tyler Ennis was the type of PG that would have won us a national championship if he was here 4 years. Could say the same about MCW. Imagine those guys as seniors. It's painful to accept being so transient.

 

[Garbs]

Both shoot better.
Perrantes is every bit the calm, poised playmaker.
Jackson is an explosive athlete, still learning to run an offense with tons of upside.

Neither is asked to do very much due to the talent around them, but I wouldn't take Ennis above either one. And these are just two examples, used because they're in our conference. Their are others around the country that come to mind as well: such as the PGs for Iowa st (name escapes me right now), Oklahoma (Cousins?), and Providence (Dunn)...

Again have you even looked at the numbers or are you talking out of your ass?

Perrantes is not a good shooter, he is only better than Ennis at the FT line.

Jackson averages less than 6 points a game.

 

[pearl31]

talking about of your ass?

Wow, stay classy Oh Lord

 

[Garbs]

Wow, stay classy Oh Lord

whoops

Also your boy Perrantes is so good, he didn't play the other night and Virginia won 70-30 something.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'll never understand underrating one of our guys because he went and got himself drafted higher than many expected. I say even more evidence that Tyler Ennis is one smart dude. Just wait and see but I expect Ennis has a very nice long lengthy career in the NBA. He needs to sure up his defense and there are going to be some PG's he just cannot guard but his shooting will improve and being surrounded by guys who can score he will get better and better running offenses the way that the coaches want it. People severely underrate having a PG who can run the offense the coach wants and get it to the guys he wants to have the ball in the right spots. Jackson and Perentes are very good college guards and I think Ennis was and is much better than both but even if you believe they are better than him it only highlights what a great decision he made to enter the draft and almost be a lottery pick after 1 season while these guys aren't going to do that even after 2 seasons.

Exactly.
It also leaves many of us in the precarious position for accusations of being "sunshine pumpers" or wearing "orange-colored glasses", when we speak up for players like TE, Donte Greene, Jonny Flynn, hell...almost every player who's been drafted in the last 10 years, and from OUR OWN FANS!
As a personal observation, it seems like that "take" is more prevalent on this forum than others. There seems to be a pervasive theme that somehow if one of our players gets drafted, that he pulled something over on the NBA, or he didn't really "deserve" to go that high, or he'll be "exposed" soon enough at the next level. TE getting sent to the D-League is greeted with a multi-page "I told you so thread", same with any negative issues involving Donte, Jonny, MCW, etc. The negatives are emphasized, whereas the positives are minimized, rationalized, and picked apart.
I don't get why the constant nit-picking of our own guys shines anything other than a negative light on some of our fanbase. We can be hard on ourselves w/out seemingly acknowledging every negative aspect involving the player(s)...just to make a point.
No one wants to be a blind follower, and message boards are places for diverse opinions obviously. But the constant pessimistic emphasis towards former SU players seems a little bizarre. JMHO

 

[jgeorge322]

Again have you even looked at the numbers or are you talking out of your ass?

Perrantes is not a good shooter, he is only better than Ennis at the FT line.

Jackson averages less than 6 points a game.

right, and neither sled the acc in assists and steals as a frosh. tell pearl to put down the pipe.

 

[CorduroyG]

perrantes is not better than ennis, no way. if ennis came back he'd probably be 1st or 2nd team all american, perrantes aint sniffing that.

 

[pearl31]

whoops

Also your boy Perrantes is so good, he didn't play the other night and Virginia won 70-30 something.

lol