For as much as people complain about our OOC scheduling...

[Scooch]

At the time West Virginia was the 5th best team in the conference.

No, 4th at worst.

1998 Big East Conference Year Summary | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

 

[Scooch]

How old are you?

Why does it matter? I watched every game in the 90s.

 

[Scooch]

Agree! Most schools have stopped scheduling many years out like the old days. We did with Wisconsin which makes zero sense but whatever we haven't been too bright with our OOC scheduling so it's not shocking. This ain't the 1970's and 1980's any more. The landscape has changed and no school should be scheduling "big OOC" games more than 2 years out.

Haha. This board melts down every 3 months because we don't have all four OOC games scheduled for 2019!

 

[AZOrange]

Like I said, there's scheduling tough and there's scheduling like a crazy person. Michigan, Tennessee AND NC State in 1998 was ridiculous. But I mention all of that just to point out that we know what a tough OOC schedule looks like. What we saw in 2016 and will see in 2017 is not that. It's reasonable, maybe a shade towards challenging. But it's nothing that should totally derail a team, even one on the rebound.

There is going to be 9 months of hysterical "why did we schedule LSU?!?!" ignoring that the other 3 OOC games should all be winnable for any moderately competent P5 team.

Tennessee...still sticks in my craw. Deleone runs it on 3rd and 4 from the 5 with 2 min to go...get mcnabb out of the damn pocket!!!

 

[OburgOrange]

Why does it matter? I watched every game in the 90s.

Lol

 

[billsin01]

At that time SU was a powerhouse perception wise so we played a lot of big games.

Now the program is wounded and needs to be nursed back to health. A soft schedule to gain bowl eligibility and confidence is what they need.

A powerhouse? Cuse was only marginally more relevant nationally than they are today. Yes they generally wound up somewhere in the vicinity of the top 25 but I don't think anyone outside of Syracuse ever thought we were close to a powerhouse.

It's more like we were really solid then and lately we've completely sucked.

 

[billsin01]

No one should ever have claimed that he "sucked". Jake C certainly did him no favors.

Go has been waiting for this thread for six years and already had that post typed up.

 

[Scooch]

Lol

OK, THANKS FOR YOUR THOUGHTFUL CONTRIBUTION TO THIS THREAD!!!

 

[billsin01]

No kidding, not that people wanted to hear it.

P was extremely frustrating in certain ways. He also presided over the beginning of the decline of this program (tho I'm fine with those arguing it was mostly due to factors outside his control). I don't know why that's so hard for you to grasp.

 

[GoSU96]

You don't know what you have till its gone.

Some don't.

 

[billsin01]

Huh? So what? We beat them. And we beat VT who was better than any of them. BC had the same conference record as us, and went bowling. How is that not solely on the OOC scheduling?

You want to go to a bowl? Beat wake. That's all it would have taken. We also couldn't stay on the same field as USF and lost by three TDs to a completely dysfunctional ND team. I mean an easier schedule helps but our problems run much deeper than that.

 

[billsin01]

Like I said, there's scheduling tough and there's scheduling like a crazy person. Michigan, Tennessee AND NC State in 1998 was ridiculous. But I mention all of that just to point out that we know what a tough OOC schedule looks like. What we saw in 2016 and will see in 2017 is not that. It's reasonable, maybe a shade towards challenging. But it's nothing that should totally derail a team, even one on the rebound.

There is going to be 9 months of hysterical "why did we schedule LSU?!?!" ignoring that the other 3 OOC games should all be winnable for any moderately competent P5 team.

People also seem to forget that beating a relatively competent opponent in a football game is waaayyyy more fun as a spectator than putting up 70 on Colgate in a game even the players' parents struggle to get excited for. Hurray we hammered MTSU by40 in front of 26K in the Dome!! We're baaaaacccckkkkk!!!!

 

[billsin01]

Please jump in when someone posts that a Middle Tennessee State team that won five games in C-USA is wayyyyy too much of a challenge for the delicate flower that is SU football in 2017.

Also jump in when these same people lose their minds when a writer suggests we'll finish under .500 next season, because we're winning 8, dammit!

The media hates us -- you didn't know that?

 

[RF2044]

You want to go to a bowl? Beat wake. That's all it would have taken. We also couldn't stay on the same field as USF and lost by three TDs to a completely dysfunctional ND team. I mean an easier schedule helps but our problems run much deeper than that.

You're right--beat Wake. That was our path to a bowl game. Unfortunately, the game was played in a hurricane.

And had we had an easier opponent in the OOC portion of the schedule, we would have gotten that fifth win and qualified for bowl eligibility.

 

[billsin01]

Some don't.

And some are absolutely clear on exactly what he was -- the good and -- GASP -- the not so good.

 

[RF2044]

People also seem to forget that beating a relatively competent opponent in a football game is waaayyyy more fun as a spectator than putting up 70 on Colgate in a game even the players' parents struggle to get excited for. Hurray we hammered MTSU by40 in front of 26K in the Dome!! We're baaaaacccckkkkk!!!!

Doesn't have anything to do with "We're baaaackkkk" and everything to do with the coaches being able to sell the upside of us making a bowl on the recruiting trail. Right now, THAT'S what is important.

So yes, beating MTSU by 40 would have accomplished that, and helped us a helluva lot more than losing that game substitute. Not sure how that can be argued.

And please note, I don't want us to schedule perma-creampuffs OOC forever. Just until we get back on our feet and ramped up to contend with a tougher OOC schedule.

Honestly, in this day and age where they can't even fill all of the available bowl slots, it is a travesty not to qualify for a bowl. Especially when so many teams schedule favorably to ensure at least a .500 record.

 

[Scooch]

We have 5 incredibly winnable games next year: CCSU, MTSU, CMU, BC and Wake. All five of those are at home. That means we need to win one more game out of the other seven. One.

At some point we just need to beat semi-decent teams. In this case, one.

 

[RF2044]

P was extremely frustrating in certain ways. He also presided over the beginning of the decline of this program (tho I'm fine with those arguing it was mostly due to factors outside his control). I don't know why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Agreed. I loved Coach P -- I was probably one of the longest holdouts in terms of hoping he'd be retained, and I used to get into it with the "coachPmustgo.com" culpruits -- both of whom are great fans that I respect and enjoy interacting with here now.

And many of the factors that led to the decline were outside of P's control. He presided over one of the most fun and extended successful eras of program history. BUT the decline was in large part attributable to that staff's inability to land a successor to McNabb at QB, and for the many QB prospects who flopped despite the recruiting accolades [Cecil Howard, Perry Patterson, Chad Elliot, to name a few].

When our offense came back to earth, it was the beginning of the end. Things became stale under P at the end -- again, not all due to circumstances associated with his coaching--but stale nonetheless, and a change was required.

The fact that the administration botched his firing and replacement--and man, did Cantor et al REALLY screw things up--doesn't change that, in my mind.

 

[RF2044]

We have 5 incredibly winnable games next year: CCSU, MTSU, CMU, BC and Wake. All five of those are at home. That means we need to win one more game out of the other seven. One.

At some point we just need to beat semi-decent teams. In this case, one.

Completely agree. If we can't get it done next year, with that favorable schedule...

I'm confident that Babers and co. can and will.

 

[OrangeDW]

You want to go to a bowl? Beat wake. That's all it would have taken. We also couldn't stay on the same field as USF and lost by three TDs to a completely dysfunctional ND team. I mean an easier schedule helps but our problems run much deeper than that.

Again...BC is worse than us and they are bowling.

No sh$t we have to get a lot better. The straw men some of you throw up in these schedule discussions just aren't necessary.

 

[billsin01]

You're right--beat Wake. That was our path to a bowl game. Unfortunately, the game was played in a hurricane.

And had we had an easier opponent in the OOC portion of the schedule, replacing either ND or LSU, we would have gotten that fifth win and qualified for bowl eligibility.

Ok then beat Pitt. Or ND. Or NC State. I mean we're not talking about a murderer's row. I'm not knocking babers at all or saying we 'should' have beat any of those teams but I think going 4-4 in ACC play should be the baseline for us. If we do that, finding two wins OOC shouldn't be a Herculean task.

 

[OrangeDW]

Tennessee...still sticks in my craw. Deleone runs it on 3rd and 4 from the 5 with 2 min to go...get mcnabb out of the damn pocket!!!

Playing for the FG with the QB we had, and the incredible game our QB had, and the offense we were going against....SMH. Losing on a last second FG...could see it coming a mile away. Almost 20 years later and it's still frustrating.

 

[RF2044]

Ok then beat Pitt. Or ND. Or NC State. I mean we're not talking about a murderer's row. I'm not knocking babers at all or saying we 'should' have beat any of those teams but I think going 4-4 in ACC play should be the baseline for us. If we do that, finding two wins OOC shouldn't be a Herculean task.

It SHOULD be a baseline for us. But obviously, we aren't that good yet in year one of the new system implementation. And NC State game was played with a former walk on QB.

I'm really not sure what is so difficult to grasp about this--especially when we have near certain built in losses to FSU, Clemson, and Louisville to account for every season. We have 9 games to win 6, and when we don't grab enough in the OOC portion of the schedule, it is always going to be a significant uphill battle to get to that number with our conference division being so stacked.

Pounding our chests and talking about teams we should have beaten doesn't alter the fact that we came within an eyelash of making a bowl. And that with slightly better scheduling logistics, we could and would have gotten there.

BTW, Pitt was one of the top offenses in the country this year. We played them on the road--when was the last time we beat them there? Despite their passing defense, that was no gimme game.

 

[OrangeDW]

Ok then beat Pitt. Or ND. Or NC State. I mean we're not talking about a murderer's row. I'm not knocking babers at all or saying we 'should' have beat any of those teams but I think going 4-4 in ACC play should be the baseline for us. If we do that, finding two wins OOC shouldn't be a Herculean task.

Why not just get 4 easy ones so that when we do go 4-4 in the league we're an 8 win team in a decent bowl with some momentum?

 

[billsin01]

Again...BC is worse than us and they are bowling.

No sh$t we have to get a lot better. The straw men some of you throw up in these schedule discussions just aren't necessary.

It's not a straw man at all -- the point is we need to get better period. The idea that scheduling horrendous teams inherently makes us better is a strategy but hardly a remedy for what ails this program. Ok, you can go to whatever bowl at 5-7 this year if you replace ND with southwestern Louisiana baptist. Ok, cool, I love the 15 extra practices and good for the team but ultimately we are in the exact same spot next year. And, don't forget, Ohio state would draw 85K to an algebra final featuring a backup LB. we struggle give away 35K for Pitt. That matters in the pocket book and for recruits. People come out to see a good team. They stay home for NW Missouri.

The point is the program needs to improve. Schedule a few wins? Ok, but they can't duck solid OOC competition for long. It just doesn't work in upstate NY