SWC75
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The Warriors set a record winning 73 regular season games this year, starting a debate: are they the best team ever? But it’s been a bumpy ride in the playoffs. After dispensing of Houston and Portland in 5 games each, with the losses by 1 and 12 points, they fell behind the Thunder 3 games to one, losing by 6 and a shocking 28 and 24 points, they rallied to win the series in 7 games. Then they seemed to be having an easy time with the Cavaliers, winning the first two games by a combined 48 points, (the most ever for the first two games of a final series). Then they again had a shocking blow-out loss in game three, by 30 points. They lost game 5 by 15 points and as I write this, they are down 9-31 in game 6. (The Cavs wound up winning 115-101.)
I decided to have a look at the great teams of NBA history and how they did in the playoffs: specifically, were they ever blown out like the Warriors have been in this post season?
MINNEAPOLIS LAKERS 1948-54 (They won 6 titles in 7 years, including the 1948 NBL title)
The Lakers lost 21 playoff games in those years:
2 by 1 point
2 by 2 points
2 by 3 points
1 by 4 points
1 by 5 points
1 by 6 points
1 by 7 points
3 by 8 points
1 by 9 points
1 by 10 points
1 by 11 points
1 by 12 points
1 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 18 points
1 by 20 points
20+ Point losses:
3/23/51 The lost 88-108 to the Indianapolis Olympians, a team full of players who had played for Kentucky’s 1948-49 NCAA champions and who formed the nucleus of the Gold Medal winning 1948 US Olympic team. Several of them were later banned for involvement in a point shaving scandal. But they were good enough to beat the Lakers on this day. Alex Groza, (Lou’s brother) scored 40 points and Ralph beard scored 23. (Both were banned after this season). A 28-7 first quarter stood up for the Olympians. It was a three game series and the Lakers won games one by 14 and three by 5 to take the series.
BOSTON CELTICS 1957-69 (They won 11 championships in 13 years)
The Celtics lost 59 playoff games in those years:
1 by 1 point
8 by 2 points
5 by 3 points
5 by 4 points
5 by 5 points
6 by 6 points
2 by 7 points
3 by 8 points
2 by 9 points
7 by 10 points
3 by 11 points
2 by 12 points
2 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 15 points
1 by 17 points
1 by 20 points
2 by 21 points
2 by 24 points
20+ point losses:
3/22/60 They lost 107-128 to the Philadelphia Warriors in Boston as Wilt Chamberlain threw down 50 points. The Celtics had an awful first half, 45-65 and could only break even in the second half. They were ahead 3-1 in the series, having lost game 2 110-115 in Philadelphia. The Celtics won the next game by 30 and closed out the series with a 2 point win in game 6 in Philly, giving the Eastern Conference title.
4/17/63 They lost 99-119 to the Lakers in game 3 of the finals Jerry West scored 42 points and Elgin Baylor 38. A 19-36 fourth quarter turned a close game into a blow-out. The Celtics had won the first two games and also won game four, 108-105, back in Boston. They won the series and the NBA title in 6.
4/22/64 The Warriors, now in San Francisco, won 115-91 led by Wilt Chamberlain with 35 points and four other guys in double figures. A 40-21 first period held up throughout the game for the Warriors. It was the only game in the series that the Warriors won. The Celtics had won the first two games by 12 and 23 and then won the final two by 3 and 6, including this game:
(That’s SU’s own Marty Glickman doing the play-by-play. Notice that “deep” meant deep inside the defense, not far away from the basket)
4/11/67 The Celtics ruin of 8 straight titles was ended by one of the greatest single season teams ever, the (say this three times real quick) 66-67 76ers, who beat them 140-116 to close out a 5 game victory in the Eastern Finals. A 40-22 fourth period blew it open and sealed the Celtics fate. But they still had two more titles in them, coming back from a 1-3 deficit to beat these same 76’s the next year.
LOS ANGELES LAKERS 1980-91 (They won 5 championships in 12 years and lost in the finals four other times)
They lost 57 games in those years:
2 by 1 point
5 by 2 points
6 by 3 points
4 by 4 points
2 by 5 points
3 by 6 points
3 by 7 points
6 by 8 points
2 by 9 points
5 by 10 points
2 by 11 points
2 by 12 points
2 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
2 by 15 points
1 by 16 points
1 by 17 points
2 by 18 points
1 by 21 points
1 by 22 points
1 by 25 points
1 by 26 points
1 by 33 points
1 by 34 points
20+ point losses:
4/13/80 The Suns, down 0-3 in games beat the Lakers at home, 127-101 with 7 guys in double figures, led by Paul Westphal with 25. Kareem also had 25 but the Lakers only had four guys in double figures and couldn’t overcome a 19 point halftime deficit. The Lakers won game five by almost the same score, 126-101 to take the series. The Lakers lost only three other playoff games that year, by a total of 7 points.
6/2/82 Down 1-3 in games, the 76’s came up with a big time answer in their home arena, slaughtering the Lakers 135-102. Four Sixers had 20+ points, led by Andrew Toney with 31 points. The first quarter was 20-20, the second 34-34 but the second half was 48-81. The Lakers closed out the series with a 114-104 win back home in LA.
5/14/85 The Nuggets evened up the series with a 136-114 win in LA after losing the opener. Alex English scored 40 points. A 47-28 fourth quarter was decisive. It was the only game the Nuggets won win the five game series. The Lakers averaged 132 points per game in this series, including a 153-109 clincher.
5/27/85 Their old nemesis, the Celtics, had all kinds of fun in blowing the Lakers out of the Boston Garden, 148-114. Larry Bird only scored 19 points but Kevin McHale and Scott Wedman, (Scott Wedman?) both scored 26, Danny Ainge had 19 and Robert Parrish 18. The Lakers won the third quarter 30-29. But they were already down 30 at halftime, 49-79. The Lakers came back to win 4 of the next 5 to finally beat the Celtics for the title. Their other loss was by 2 points.
6/14/88 Down 1-2 in games, the Pistons beat the Lakers 111-86 in Detroit. Isiah Thomas scored only 10 points but Adrian Dantley had 27 and three other guys were in double figures as a dozen players scored for the Pistons whose rough, tough defense held the Showtime Lakers to only 86 points, (the game was changing). The Pistons won every quarter, the biggest margin being 25-14 in the third. They also won the next game, 104-94 but the Lakers rescued the series with 1 and 3 points wins in the final two games to become the first team to repeat in 19 years. But the Pistons would win the next two titles.
6/5/91 The torch was past as the Bulls beat the Lakers in 5 games after losing the opener. It began with this 107-86 win. Magic Johnson had 14 points, 7 rebounds and 10 assists but Michael Jordan had 33-10-14. A 38-26 third quarter but the Bulls in control of the game.
CHICAGO BULLS 1991-1998 (6 titles in 8 years)
The Bulls lost 33 games in those years:
1 by 1 point
6 by 2 points
4 by 3 points
1 by 1 point
5 by 5 points
1 by 6 points
2 by 7 points
4 by 8 points
1 by 9 point
2 by 10 points
3 by 11 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 17 points
1 by 21 points
20+ point losses:
6/12/96 The Supersonics, (remember them?) down 0-3, beat the Bulls – the 72-10 Bulls- 107-86. Michael Jordan managed 23 points but missed 13 of 19 shots while Shawn Kemp scored 25 points and pulled down 11 rebounds and Gary Payton scored 21 with 11 assists. An 11-28 second quarter did the Bulls in. they also lost the next game, 78-89 but closed out the series with a 87-75 win at home.
Comments: All the great teams have had bad nights but they’ve not had as many bad nights as this Warriors team has had in this year’s playoffs. And they’ve never had consecutive nights where they got badly beaten. The great teams were 8-3 after the 20+ losses and none of the 3 following losses were by comparable margins. None of the series involved featured two 20+ losses and the great team won 10 of those 12 series.
I think the reasons that the Warriors are vulnerable to being dominated is that (1) they are not a big team and so (2) they are highly dependent on scoring form outside and that’s not something even they can consistently do against the best teams in the league, who are going to play the best defense. And that has to be a big point in any comparisons.
I decided to have a look at the great teams of NBA history and how they did in the playoffs: specifically, were they ever blown out like the Warriors have been in this post season?
MINNEAPOLIS LAKERS 1948-54 (They won 6 titles in 7 years, including the 1948 NBL title)
The Lakers lost 21 playoff games in those years:
2 by 1 point
2 by 2 points
2 by 3 points
1 by 4 points
1 by 5 points
1 by 6 points
1 by 7 points
3 by 8 points
1 by 9 points
1 by 10 points
1 by 11 points
1 by 12 points
1 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 18 points
1 by 20 points
20+ Point losses:
3/23/51 The lost 88-108 to the Indianapolis Olympians, a team full of players who had played for Kentucky’s 1948-49 NCAA champions and who formed the nucleus of the Gold Medal winning 1948 US Olympic team. Several of them were later banned for involvement in a point shaving scandal. But they were good enough to beat the Lakers on this day. Alex Groza, (Lou’s brother) scored 40 points and Ralph beard scored 23. (Both were banned after this season). A 28-7 first quarter stood up for the Olympians. It was a three game series and the Lakers won games one by 14 and three by 5 to take the series.
BOSTON CELTICS 1957-69 (They won 11 championships in 13 years)
The Celtics lost 59 playoff games in those years:
1 by 1 point
8 by 2 points
5 by 3 points
5 by 4 points
5 by 5 points
6 by 6 points
2 by 7 points
3 by 8 points
2 by 9 points
7 by 10 points
3 by 11 points
2 by 12 points
2 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 15 points
1 by 17 points
1 by 20 points
2 by 21 points
2 by 24 points
20+ point losses:
3/22/60 They lost 107-128 to the Philadelphia Warriors in Boston as Wilt Chamberlain threw down 50 points. The Celtics had an awful first half, 45-65 and could only break even in the second half. They were ahead 3-1 in the series, having lost game 2 110-115 in Philadelphia. The Celtics won the next game by 30 and closed out the series with a 2 point win in game 6 in Philly, giving the Eastern Conference title.
4/17/63 They lost 99-119 to the Lakers in game 3 of the finals Jerry West scored 42 points and Elgin Baylor 38. A 19-36 fourth quarter turned a close game into a blow-out. The Celtics had won the first two games and also won game four, 108-105, back in Boston. They won the series and the NBA title in 6.
4/22/64 The Warriors, now in San Francisco, won 115-91 led by Wilt Chamberlain with 35 points and four other guys in double figures. A 40-21 first period held up throughout the game for the Warriors. It was the only game in the series that the Warriors won. The Celtics had won the first two games by 12 and 23 and then won the final two by 3 and 6, including this game:
(That’s SU’s own Marty Glickman doing the play-by-play. Notice that “deep” meant deep inside the defense, not far away from the basket)
4/11/67 The Celtics ruin of 8 straight titles was ended by one of the greatest single season teams ever, the (say this three times real quick) 66-67 76ers, who beat them 140-116 to close out a 5 game victory in the Eastern Finals. A 40-22 fourth period blew it open and sealed the Celtics fate. But they still had two more titles in them, coming back from a 1-3 deficit to beat these same 76’s the next year.
LOS ANGELES LAKERS 1980-91 (They won 5 championships in 12 years and lost in the finals four other times)
They lost 57 games in those years:
2 by 1 point
5 by 2 points
6 by 3 points
4 by 4 points
2 by 5 points
3 by 6 points
3 by 7 points
6 by 8 points
2 by 9 points
5 by 10 points
2 by 11 points
2 by 12 points
2 by 13 points
1 by 14 points
2 by 15 points
1 by 16 points
1 by 17 points
2 by 18 points
1 by 21 points
1 by 22 points
1 by 25 points
1 by 26 points
1 by 33 points
1 by 34 points
20+ point losses:
4/13/80 The Suns, down 0-3 in games beat the Lakers at home, 127-101 with 7 guys in double figures, led by Paul Westphal with 25. Kareem also had 25 but the Lakers only had four guys in double figures and couldn’t overcome a 19 point halftime deficit. The Lakers won game five by almost the same score, 126-101 to take the series. The Lakers lost only three other playoff games that year, by a total of 7 points.
6/2/82 Down 1-3 in games, the 76’s came up with a big time answer in their home arena, slaughtering the Lakers 135-102. Four Sixers had 20+ points, led by Andrew Toney with 31 points. The first quarter was 20-20, the second 34-34 but the second half was 48-81. The Lakers closed out the series with a 114-104 win back home in LA.
5/14/85 The Nuggets evened up the series with a 136-114 win in LA after losing the opener. Alex English scored 40 points. A 47-28 fourth quarter was decisive. It was the only game the Nuggets won win the five game series. The Lakers averaged 132 points per game in this series, including a 153-109 clincher.
5/27/85 Their old nemesis, the Celtics, had all kinds of fun in blowing the Lakers out of the Boston Garden, 148-114. Larry Bird only scored 19 points but Kevin McHale and Scott Wedman, (Scott Wedman?) both scored 26, Danny Ainge had 19 and Robert Parrish 18. The Lakers won the third quarter 30-29. But they were already down 30 at halftime, 49-79. The Lakers came back to win 4 of the next 5 to finally beat the Celtics for the title. Their other loss was by 2 points.
6/14/88 Down 1-2 in games, the Pistons beat the Lakers 111-86 in Detroit. Isiah Thomas scored only 10 points but Adrian Dantley had 27 and three other guys were in double figures as a dozen players scored for the Pistons whose rough, tough defense held the Showtime Lakers to only 86 points, (the game was changing). The Pistons won every quarter, the biggest margin being 25-14 in the third. They also won the next game, 104-94 but the Lakers rescued the series with 1 and 3 points wins in the final two games to become the first team to repeat in 19 years. But the Pistons would win the next two titles.
6/5/91 The torch was past as the Bulls beat the Lakers in 5 games after losing the opener. It began with this 107-86 win. Magic Johnson had 14 points, 7 rebounds and 10 assists but Michael Jordan had 33-10-14. A 38-26 third quarter but the Bulls in control of the game.
CHICAGO BULLS 1991-1998 (6 titles in 8 years)
The Bulls lost 33 games in those years:
1 by 1 point
6 by 2 points
4 by 3 points
1 by 1 point
5 by 5 points
1 by 6 points
2 by 7 points
4 by 8 points
1 by 9 point
2 by 10 points
3 by 11 points
1 by 14 points
1 by 17 points
1 by 21 points
20+ point losses:
6/12/96 The Supersonics, (remember them?) down 0-3, beat the Bulls – the 72-10 Bulls- 107-86. Michael Jordan managed 23 points but missed 13 of 19 shots while Shawn Kemp scored 25 points and pulled down 11 rebounds and Gary Payton scored 21 with 11 assists. An 11-28 second quarter did the Bulls in. they also lost the next game, 78-89 but closed out the series with a 87-75 win at home.
Comments: All the great teams have had bad nights but they’ve not had as many bad nights as this Warriors team has had in this year’s playoffs. And they’ve never had consecutive nights where they got badly beaten. The great teams were 8-3 after the 20+ losses and none of the 3 following losses were by comparable margins. None of the series involved featured two 20+ losses and the great team won 10 of those 12 series.
I think the reasons that the Warriors are vulnerable to being dominated is that (1) they are not a big team and so (2) they are highly dependent on scoring form outside and that’s not something even they can consistently do against the best teams in the league, who are going to play the best defense. And that has to be a big point in any comparisons.
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