Have defended JB for decades...

[CuseFaninVT]

Villanova uses their press to specifically shorten the shot clock for its opponent and because a lot teams are stupid and they can get some cheap turnovers from the dumb teams.
They don't press full court. It's press the inbounds slow down the opponent and get the ball into a secondary ball handler and disrupt an offense.
It's good strategy.

My son's squad does this as well. 1-2-2.

Started off last night's game 16-0. Press was very effective.

 

[Scooch]

Anything significant happen in 2014-15?

It's not like our projected starting PG left school early for the NBA, or our 5 star recruit blew out his knee.

Yeah, those things definitely hurt. As did Lydon and Richardson leaving early. We've talked through those things to death. Thing is, it's six seasons later, and the downward trajectory seems to have accelerated. All the rationalizations, many of which were perfectly legit, have largely expired.

 

[Herkimercus]

Free Throws 31-9 Syracuse 5-9 , McClug was 9-10 Himself

motion Offense and effective big guys get to the line. This is just one symptom of just how bad this roster is.

 

[OrangeDW]

The real decline began in the 2014-15 season. 2012-13 edition was a strong team, as was the 2013-14 edition, despite the swoon at the end of the year. Rak Christmas carried the '14-15 team, and it's been downhill since then.

2016 team was good. Take out the swoon caused by suddenly losing their coach in the middle of the season, and we probably have 3-4 more wins and are a much better seed.

That team was way better than a 10 seed, talent wise, as teams in the tourney found out. Gbinije, Malachi, and Lydon were 3 really good players, and then had some veteran size with Roberson and Coleman and veteran Cooney who was a tough defender. That was a nice team. We haven’t been good since though.

 

[OrangeDW]

motion Offense and effective big guys get to the line. This is just one symptom of just how bad this roster is.

Marek made some of the best drives of his life, got hammered, still scored, and got no calls. Plus they screwed him and us with his 3rd foul which was just a horrific and nonsensical call.

Get those ones right, and I don’t think people are nearly as focused on the FT disparity, and the game probably goes to the wire and is anyone’s game. We lost the game when Marek had to sit.

 

[Herkimercus]

Yep. That's what happens when you have a bad defense whose defenders are constantly getting beat off the dribble on top being slow afoot, etc. and the ensuing issues that creates on the interior. They have to foul or give up an easy FG. It's similar to a defender in football being burnt and having no choice but to grab a receiver and get flagged for PI or else give up an easy TD, etc.

Additionally, many of those fouls also occurred due to our normal rebounding woes and the opponents 2nd and 3rd chance opportunities due to our immense inside defensive weaknesses. Our fouls are causally related to our poor defense, and athletic deficiencies. Moreover, we don't get the foul line as we can't break down the opposing D off the dribble like many of our better opponents do to us nor do we have any semblance of an inside threat. We pass the ball around the perimeter until the shot clock is near its end and then launch 3's, not exactly how fouls are drawn. It's the precise recipe of what transpired yesterday and the objective reason for the large discrepancy you point out.

All great points, while I have been very critical of the lineup, roster, and the athletes we also have a strategical approach problem. A problem that has existed for years, even close to a decade; and that's our lack of offensive motion and playing with speed and strategy to get guys open. We do swing the ball around the perimeter for a good portion of the shot clock. Now, with solid acc talent and talent we have come to know; we can survive with a poor offensive approach. With a poor roster, sceme, and ineffective zone D, things are exacerbated. We have relied for years defense leading to tipped Balls and turnovers leading to fast break points. Sadly, we are 0 for 3.

 

[007]

JB has gone over this a bunch. Doesn't believe in the expending energy argument. Guys hit 3s against us at the end of the clock constantly, he understands shooting and ball handling have gotten a lot better over the decade.

Yeah, I hear you. I have read and heard his reasoning many times. To my knowledge, he has never used a 2-2-1 3/4 press, apart from very early in the season last year (not sure many remember or picked up on this). I can tell you from experience there is not a lot more "energy" required in running the 2-2-1 back to the 2-3 as compared to what is required running JB's extended 2-3, which is very demanding on the wings. It's also interesting that when he does press, the 1-2-1-1 full court press is THE most physical demanding press.

In any case, I suspect the real reason is that JB does not like to press (who can argue with his results?) and rarely believes that his team is good at it.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, I hear you. I have read and heard his reasoning many times. To my knowledge, he has never used a 2-2-1 3/4 press, apart from very early in the season last year (not sure many remember or picked up on this). I can tell you from experience there is not a lot more "energy" required in running the 2-2-1 back to the 2-3 as compared to what is required running JB's extended 2-3, which is very demanding on the wings. It's also interesting that when he does press, the 1-2-1-1 full court press is THE most physical demanding press.

In any case, I suspect the real reason is that JB does not like to press (who can argue with his results?) and rarely believes that his team is good at it.

I look at our roster and can’t find any reason why we’d be a good pressing team though. We don’t have those Pitbull type guards who are athletic and relentless. We don’t have a mobile center in the back of it(unless we played Edwards). And Marek would be a lock to pick up two fouls a game trying to trap near halfcourt.

 

[tbonezone]

i think the depth thing historically is more of an issue then the talent issue. can't play 35 + and press.

 

[dasher]

Decades?

Your defense must have been a real struggle in 03, 10, 12, 13, 16. My condolences.

You have no idea what it was like back in the late 70's and 80's. There were very few of us out there defending him. No kidding.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't think JB believes there are good pressing teams in general from how he answers this question.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't think JB believes there are good pressing teams in general from how he answers this question.

In this day and age you’re susceptible to giving up too many transition 3’s.

 

[OrangeDW]

In this day and age you’re susceptible to giving up too many transition 3’s.

Yeah, I don’t watch nearly as much college hoops as I used so I could be off but other than Shaka Smart at VCU 5 years ago, I don’t feel like the press has been that big of a deal in college hoops in awhile. Seems it’s heyday was the early-mid 90s with Arkansas, Kentucky, Georgetown, etc.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah, I don’t watch nearly as much college hoops as I used so I could be off but other than Shaka Smart at VCU 5 years ago, I don’t feel like the press has been that big of a deal in college hoops in awhile. Seems it’s heyday was the early-mid 90s with Arkansas, Kentucky, Georgetown, etc.

Arkansas still tried to press under Mike Anderson and he ended up getting canned. He tried it against us and we scored about 95 in that game Southerland went off. And it’s worth mentioning Shaka has been a disappointment at Texas.

 

[NateW]

You have no idea what it was like back in the late 70's and 80's. There were very few of us out there defending him. No kidding.

Glad you all did. Very much appreciated!

 

[007]

I look at our roster and can’t find any reason why we’d be a good pressing team though. We don’t have those Pitbull type guards who are athletic and relentless. We don’t have a mobile center in the back of it(unless we played Edwards). And Marek would be a lock to pick up two fouls a game trying to trap near halfcourt.

I don't disagree with that - especially when trying to run the 1-2-1-1 full court press with the chaser in the front and the guards trying to deny the first entry pass. Ironically, this is THE most aggressive press in basketball, is physically demanding, and that's the only press we run, and only when desperate.

I think what's getting lost in the wash is that there are many different types of "presses" with variations within the press, and different objectives. The 2-2-1 can be run without traps and using moderate ball pressure. It forces the O to have to reverse the ball or use a couple of extra passes before they can start to run their typical sets. Takes time off the clock and somewhat disrupts the natural flow.

 

[tbonezone]

i would think the press could still be effective against a team with young guards without much handle and against a team with a rather thin bench . make their guards spend more energy backcourt. a team like us.

 

[Ghost]

2016 team was good. Take out the swoon caused by suddenly losing their coach in the middle of the season, and we probably have 3-4 more wins and are a much better seed.

That team was way better than a 10 seed, talent wise, as teams in the tourney found out. Gbinije, Malachi, and Lydon were 3 really good players, and then had some veteran size with Roberson and Coleman and veteran Cooney who was a tough defender. That was a nice team. We haven’t been good since though.

Just seeing those names makes me yearn for...dare I say it...when Cooney was on the team! I'm fairly certain Roberson could start at any of the 5 positions on the court right now if he was coming onto the roster straight out of HS.

 

[Scooch]

So JB believes that the press, conceptually, isn’t particularly viable anymore. And specifically, this team doesn’t have the personnel to run it effectively. Annnnd we haven’t played competent man defense in 20 years.

I, for one, can’t wait to see how we adjust on nights when the 2-3 fails in ACC play!

 

[tbonezone]

"I, for one, can’t wait to see how we adjust on nights when the 2-3 fails in ACC play!"
seen that movie..



wildhack..nice team spirit !

 

[Toga]

JB has gone over this a bunch. Doesn't believe in the expending energy argument. Guys hit 3s against us at the end of the clock constantly, he understands shooting and ball handling have gotten a lot better over the decade.

Really not much energy expended. Anyways, I thought 19 year old kids can run all day - or something like that.

 

[Toga]

So JB believes that the press, conceptually, isn’t particularly viable anymore. And specifically, this team doesn’t have the personnel to run it effectively. Annnnd we haven’t played competent man defense in 20 years.

I, for one, can’t wait to see how we adjust on nights when the 2-3 fails in ACC play!

I'm trying to wrap my brain around whether there has been one particular constant over a 20 year period.

 

[Herkimercus]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around whether there has been one particular constant over a 20 year period.

Yes, that constant has been the zone and JB has recruited to it. Scary that we don't have the length on top or below to run it. The D is premised on long players that make a team seeing it for the first time, turn it over and we play some transition O off that.

 

[Alsacs]

So JB believes that the press, conceptually, isn’t particularly viable anymore. And specifically, this team doesn’t have the personnel to run it effectively. Annnnd we haven’t played competent man defense in 20 years.

I, for one, can’t wait to see how we adjust on nights when the 2-3 fails in ACC play!

How many games have you won?

 

[kcsu]

we need to stick with the zone. We are too slow to play man. Dont have the rim protector to press. Zone is our best bet.