Howard Washington Injury... | Page 8 | Syracusefan.com

Howard Washington Injury...

No, but by the time the decision was finalized there was little to no opportunity to fill his roster spot other than another grad transfer. Had we known definitively that Thompson would be a no show that is undoubtedly a route we would have taken.
Understand your perspective but Lydon leaving cetaceans an impact on this year's roster and while not completely unexpected, it impacted our roster management.
It was finalized PUBLICLY by the same time other bball players decide.
If JB doesn't manage his roster with an eye towards who might leave early, shame on him.
Truth be told, he had Lydon one year longer than he should have.
 
It was finalized PUBLICLY by the same time other bball players decide.
If JB doesn't manage his roster with an eye towards who might leave early, shame on him.
Truth be told, he had Lydon one year longer than he should have.
There is simply no way JB was blindsided by Lydon leaving after last season. None.
 
This is wrong. We used every scholarship we had this year, without Lydon in the mix. Red shirts still count as a schollarship, and we only had 11 to begin with due to probation.

1) Howard
2) Battle
3) Brissett
4) Dolezaj
5) Chukeu
6) Sidibe
7) Hughes - red shirt
8) Thompson - left after school started making it impossible to bring in a replacement.
9) Thorpe - Left during the season
10) Moyer - hurt
11) Washington -hurt

Boeheim actually did a phenomenal job putting together a deep team on short notice and with fewer coaches able to go out and recruit than every other school gets.

This is just a tremendous amount of bad luck.

Your point is correct but that Lydon left long after we recruited Brissett is not wrong. I agree that we would not have Dolezaj so the line-ups I posted are wrong in that respect. It is a perfect stormy but the weather has been awfully storm in recent years. There's a reason you 13 schollies and when we are back to that I think we should use them to help us in these situations, (but we probably won't).
 
Yes, of course we would be.

The second half was just something I threw in there. I've found it interesting that many of the same people who didn't want JB to play guys on his bench more minutes (particularly HW) are bemoaning the fact that SU is down to 6 players. Injuries happen and not playing guys more minutes with a limited roster was Russian roulette and now we are staring down the barrel.


When you are down to 6 recruited players it's no longer about how much he played the other guys: they are hurt and can't play. Actually, we can put together a good starting line-up that includes one of the "other guys". We've used every recruited player extensively except Washington and he's the guy whose injury this thread is about.
 
Nice post but it's not been a better season than we all expected. Seems the range of expectations for reasonable people was 17-21 wins in the regular season. Seems to be where we were headed and still might be. (It's now hard to say what will happen or would've happened, considering the team is decimated).

That's not to say JB hasn't done a good job but to date the team hasn't overachieved. We haven't won one game that was surprisimg. We lost to two teams who weren't at full strength. Hopefully, we can dish out some of that. Odd season but outside of the ND and Wake games, the team has given good effort.
The season isn't over yet, but the start was certainly better than expected. Most (including myself) were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the incoming new players - Sid, OB, and Dol and even HW. The 12-2 OOC record was excellent and the future looks bright. It looks like SU is on the right track to get back to where we want to be.

The expectations people had at the beginning of the season didn't account for Thorpe quitting, Sid's tendonitis, and Moyer going down. And now HW.

It's now looking like your incredible dislike for HW's PT finds its way into every topic.
 
The season isn't over yet, but the start was certainly better than expected. Most (including myself) were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the incoming new players - Sid, OB, and Dol and even HW. The 12-2 OOC record was excellent and the future looks bright. It looks like SU is on the right track to get back to where we want to be.

The expectations people had at the beginning of the season didn't account for Thorpe quitting, Sid's tendonitis, and Moyer going down. And now HW.

It's now looking like your incredible dislike for HW's PT finds its way into every topic.
I certainly don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think his more general point is that this is the reason why you need to develop your bench. In case someone or multiple players go down, the people next up will have had some previous game experience.(I realize Cuse current situation numbers are low for available players and doesn't apply much in this case, just speaking in general.) Pros and Cons-gets more players experience, but may cost you a couple W's along the way.
 
When you are down to 6 recruited players it's no longer about how much he played the other guys: they are hurt and can't play. Actually, we can put together a good starting line-up that includes one of the "other guys". We've used every recruited player extensively except Washington and he's the guy whose injury this thread is about.

My point is people are now bemoaning the fact we have 6 guys and it is ironic, considering manyof those people never wanted JB to play Howard Washington in the first place. JB's strategy of playing guys 40 minutes and going with a very short bench was never an issue to them.
 
The season isn't over yet, but the start was certainly better than expected. Most (including myself) were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the incoming new players - Sid, OB, and Dol and even HW. The 12-2 OOC record was excellent and the future looks bright. It looks like SU is on the right track to get back to where we want to be.

The expectations people had at the beginning of the season didn't account for Thorpe quitting, Sid's tendonitis, and Moyer going down. And now HW.

It's now looking like your incredible dislike for HW's PT finds its way into every topic.

It'll find its way into topics that have to do with SU never developing or having a bench, yes.
 
I certainly don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think his more general point is that this is the reason why you need to develop your bench. In case someone or multiple players go down, the people next up will have had some previous game experience.(I realize Cuse current situation numbers are low for available players and doesn't apply much in this case, just speaking in general.) Pros and Cons-gets more players experience, but may cost you a couple W's along the way.

Exactly.
 
I certainly don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think his more general point is that this is the reason why you need to develop your bench. In case someone or multiple players go down, the people next up will have had some previous game experience.(I realize Cuse current situation numbers are low for available players and doesn't apply much in this case, just speaking in general.) Pros and Cons-gets more players experience, but may cost you a couple W's along the way.
You develop your bench (role players) in practice. I get the game experience but that is mostly the mental aspect. D1 players practice 20 hrs a week how can that compare to a few minutes of game playing time. Washington played 11 minutes last game and put up zero shots. I’m sure he is putting up a lot more in practice.
 
I certainly don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think his more general point is that this is the reason why you need to develop your bench. In case someone or multiple players go down, the people next up will have had some previous game experience.(I realize Cuse current situation numbers are low for available players and doesn't apply much in this case, just speaking in general.) Pros and Cons-gets more players experience, but may cost you a couple W's along the way.
The ironic part to me is I thought JB was slowly increasing HW's role. Against Pitt he played I think 11 minutes and was being subbed in on offense at the end of the game - even getting the ball in his hands to seal the game with FTs. Looked like HW did a good job and was earning JB's trust.

This injury illustrates the opposite of the need to develop your bench. Your bench player can get hurt. I didn't hear anyone clamoring for Bayer to get more developmental time.
 
It'll find its way into topics that have to do with SU never developing or having a bench, yes.
But HW's injury is not about the development of a bench. How developed HW was/is no longer relevant because he is out. The bench development issue now would center on Bayer's readiness, and you had never mentioned him.
 
The ironic part to me is I thought JB was slowly increasing HW's role. Against Pitt he played I think 11 minutes and was being subbed in on offense at the end of the game - even getting the ball in his hands to seal the game with FTs. Looked like HW did a good job and was earning JB's trust.

This injury illustrates the opposite of the need to develop your bench. Your bench player can get hurt. I didn't hear anyone clamoring for Bayer to get more developmental time.

Are you kidding? The injury could've happened to anyone. Washington is a guard. Moyer got hurt too. He's a starting forward. Would Marek have been ready if he hadn't been playing? Starters can get hurt, thus one of the many reasons to prepare bench players.
 
But HW's injury is not about the development of a bench. How developed HW was/is no longer relevant because he is out. The bench development issue now would center on Bayer's readiness, and you had never mentioned him.

Guys get hurt. Starters, bench players. All of them have to be contributors, so that when injuries happen, players are ready to step up. It's a team.
 
Are you kidding? The injury could've happened to anyone. Washington is a guard. Moyer got hurt too. He's a starting forward. Would Marek have been ready if he hadn't been playing? Starters can get hurt, thus one of the many reasons to prepare bench players.
But not all players are equal - Thorpe>HW>Bayer. At some point injuries can just screw you over.

Are you going to continue your bench development crusade with Bayer now?
 
But not all players are equal - Thorpe>HW>Bayer. At some point injuries can just screw you over.

Are you going to continue your bench development crusade with Bayer now?

It wasn't a crusade. If you've noticed, I haven't been even engaging in the threads about Howard Washington lately (until this one). He was showing he's got the requisite talent to play on this team but I try not to play the, "I told you so" game.

My only point all year about HW is that he should've been in the rotation. I never said he'd be a star this year. I never said he'd be a savior, just a solid player who could help us this year and give our starters some relief. And yes, actually help us when he's in there, rather than being a hindrance.
 
It wasn't a crusade. If you've noticed, I haven't been even engaging in the threads about Howard Washington lately (until this one). He was showing he's got the requisite talent to play on this team but I try not to play the, "I told you so" game.

My only point all year about HW is that he should've been in the rotation. I never said he'd be a star this year. I never said he'd be a savior, just a solid player who could help us this year and give our starters some relief. And yes, actually help us when he's in there, rather than being a hindrance.
I understand you wanted HW to get more time. It seemed to me that desire colored your opinion on other topics/angles to justify this: playing the bench, and even JB's coaching job thus far this season. Now with HW out the bench playing thing is no longer an issue unless you are advocating Bayer minutes.

I do think HW's injury sucks. I enjoy watching developmental players grow. I thought he did a good job in helping close the Pitt game and was hoping to see if he could get more time in that role.
 
Develop players all you want you still need to win and last I sdaw almost every game is coming down to 1-2 possessions and 1-2 mistakes can cost you a game. If we were winning by 20 early we would have seen Washington a bunch, but we cant score enough to do that..
 
Geno Thorpe quitting has really cost this team, given how events have unfolded.
This is exactly right. I was not happy when he left and thought he was a big loss as a 6th or 7th man. I was also worried it would come back to bite us later on. People said that having Hop still on staff could’ve made a difference in the Thorpe situation and kept him on the roster because he had a way with these kids and could talk them off the ledge. I know our current asssistants don’t have Hop’s personality, but you’d think they would have learned from his ways of dealing with these kids—and also dealing with JB.
 
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You develop your bench (role players) in practice. I get the game experience but that is mostly the mental aspect. D1 players practice 20 hrs a week how can that compare to a few minutes of game playing time. Washington played 11 minutes last game and put up zero shots. I’m sure he is putting up a lot more in practice.
Have to disagree. The entire point is to give your players game experience, which you’re never gonna get in practice. It’s really about coaching philosophy. Do you work your players into the rotation early, blowouts or not, & develop them for any game pressure throughout a season, a la Rick Pitino? Or do you play it close to the vest, maybe 7 players, to develop chemistry among that core- like our own JB?
Personally, and maybe not this year since we’ve been limited, I’ve preferred the Pitino/JTII model: waves of players coming off the bench and wearing out your opponent.
I believe playing & developing your bench for March, which is IMO the only thing that matters in today’s cbb, should be a priority over a coupla losses in November.
JB’s teams always tend to swoon towards the end of the season. I believe some of that comes from fatigue- whereas if he developed his depth throughout the season, he’d be in a better position come March, re injuries, arrests, transfers, etc.
*Note: I am NOT a HOF’er- JMHO! ;)
 

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