I am sure I will get killed for this

[TheCusian]

It’s silly to blow this off as an overreaction to 1
game. It’s what we’ve seen a majority of the seasons he’s been coaching. All the things Jeremycuse has already listed, the worst 3rd down offense and defense in the country most of the the years of his tenure, the blowouts we’ve seen, an offensive genius coach who’s offense is like watching a Shafer run team again.

It’s not one game that people’s frustrating is coming from.

We had one of the best 3rd down defenses in the country for two years.

 

[orangecuse]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

Perhaps, he was taken back more by the lack of investment his alma mater had placed into the program once he was here day to day. I think he could still see his name, albeit mostly faded, on his 'ol taped locker in the Dome. He didn't have to look any further than the "lay of the land" on his own campus to find the state of SU's facilities completely daunting. Really, IMO, it's quite miraculous what he accomplished here with all of that, in addition to being at the bottom of the abyss when he took over after Grob.

 

[GoSU96]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

Stop making sense

 

[GoSU96]

Perhaps, he was taken back more by the lack of investment his alma mater had placed into the program once he was here day to day. I think he could still see his name, albeit mostly faded, on his 'ol taped locker in the Dome. He didn't have to look any further than the "lay of the land" on his own campus to find the state of SU's facilities completely daunting. Really, IMO, it's quite miraculous what he accomplished here with all of that, in addition to being at the bottom of the abyss when he took over after Grob.

He found out that it had become a basketball school.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS...

say you hire a new HC that comes in because they just landed a P5 gig, which will not doubt be a promotion a jump in pay and stature, says all the right things first few months, going to recruit better build an exciting brand of football, gets fans back in seats, build winner. Inherently, they will need a couple years to get there guys in place. Said coach comes in and shortly realizes this job is damn tough and probably the most difficult of it's kind that is out there. Now they are scrambling, hiring new assistants, figuring out recruiting territory, schemes, etc. and once again we are in the middle of yet another vicious circle. They all have to to flip the script because the job has challenges they were unaware of prior to taking the job

Marrone seemed dialed in year 4 and I would have loved to see what year 5 looked like but we lost a ton of talent that year but he also had some pretty good recruits that flipped once he left. That said, we would have won a couple more games and went 8-4 ( also still had a knucklehead at AD when Doug left). you just continue to build from there but it just takes a ton of time to get it right and I don't care that it's year 5 of Dino, we are definitely taking a step back on the field but he seems to have recruiting back on track. Also remember after the 10 win season how many other HC at other programs were telling kids he wouldn't be around after 1 more year etc.

Here is hoping that if Dino gets the time and rights the ship that he returns the loyalty from the administration with staying put? Would not be normal given the current landscape but loyalty goes both ways.

In addition, I don't think you can handpick a better rep for the football program that Dino Babers and that means something to me and willing to see this through until the bitter end

 

[TheCusian]

Firing a coach that was just extended - especially at a school like SU - has about a 0.00001% chance of actually happening. That being said, it really is a massive head scratcher as to what has happened to this offense. I mean, in Dino's first year, we had a freaking walk-on QB throw for 440 yards and 5 touchdowns in a game, accumulating 668 yards of offense as a team and 61 points. Now, we can barely get 200 yards of total offense and our 4-star QB looks like he has no idea how to read a defense and doesn't have the skill to make most throws. I fear that it's going to be another long year around these parts.

I think the system got figured out, IMO

 

[orangecuse]

say you hire a new HC that comes in because they just landed a P5 gig, which will not doubt be a promotion a jump in pay and stature, says all the right things first few months, going to recruit better build an exciting brand of football, gets fans back in seats, build winner. Inherently, they will need a couple years to get there guys in place. Said coach comes in and shortly realizes this job is damn tough and probably the most difficult of it's kind that is out there. Now they are scrambling, hiring new assistants, figuring out recruiting territory, schemes, etc. and once again we are in the middle of yet another vicious circle. They all have to to flip the script because the job has challenges they were unaware of prior to taking the job

Marrone seemed dialed in year 4 and I would have loved to see what year 5 looked like but we lost a ton of talent that year but he also had some pretty good recruits that flipped once he left. That said, we would have won a couple more games and went 8-4 ( also still had a knucklehead at AD when Doug left). you just continue to build from there but it just takes a ton of time to get it right and I don't care that it's year 5 of Dino, we are definitely taking a step back on the field but he seems to have recruiting back on track. Also remember after the 10 win season how many other HC at other programs were telling kids he wouldn't be around after 1 more year etc.

Here is hoping that if Dino gets the time and rights the ship that he returns the loyalty from the administration with staying put? Would not be normal given the current landscape but loyalty goes both ways.

In addition, I don't think you can handpick a better rep for the football program that Dino Babers and that means something to me and willing to see this through until the bitter end

I hear you. However, Syracuse is a P5 school and has plenty of money to land more than just a decent coach in my opinion. And, regarding your "this job is damn tough" sentiment, oh boo hoo. Being paid 4 million dollars a year should be easy peasy? If high paying jobs were not so "damn tough" perhaps the other 99% plus of the population would be making that or a similar amount of coin too.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I hear you. However, Syracuse is a P5 school and has plenty of money to land more than just a decent coach in my opinion. And, regarding your "this job is damn tough" sentiment, oh boo hoo. Being paid 4 million dollars a year should be easy peasy? If high paying jobs were not so "damn tough" perhaps the other 99% plus of the population would be making that or a similar amount of coin too.

Missed the point completely. Has nothing to do with anything you posted. If you want to ignore the challenges so be it. Everybody loves the shiny new toys but there will be no miracles when it comes to syracuse football

 

[PhatOrange]

In addition, I don't think you can handpick a better rep for the football program that Dino Babers and that means something to me and willing to see this through until the bitter end

THIS

 

[upperdeck]

Dino said you need to be strong up the middle.. center/qb/rb.. when this system has that it will humm.. Center play and LT were issues.. We got better at LT but a bit worse at center swapping last yr but still better than where we started the season.. Still need to get better and I agree center got blown up a ton last week.

 

[NKR1978]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

I think you're right. Barring an absolute collapse for 2 seasons, Dino is going to be the coach here for at least 4 more years. That doesn't mean his seat wont get warm, but we've tried the revolving door of coaches. It might help to give the guy time.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think you're right. Barring an absolute collapse for 2 seasons, Dino is going to be the coach here for at least 4 more years. That doesn't mean his seat wont get warm, but we've tried the revolving door of coaches. It might help to give the guy time.

It could very well be perceived as warm but it wont be. After the 2018 season Babers had the leverage after the 2020 season that leverage will most likely be returned to John Wildhack and he won't do much with it other than give a solid vote of confidence publicly as he should. Then you move forward in a partnership with each party has shown a long term commitment to the other. What will result is an even better working relationship moving forward which I think will last a number of years. Not much different than a lot of business but certainly different when it comes to P5 football.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think you're right. Barring an absolute collapse for 2 seasons, Dino is going to be the coach here for at least 4 more years. That doesn't mean his seat wont get warm, but we've tried the revolving door of coaches. It might help to give the guy time.

And when people scream about year 5, I would point to the 10 win season and some really nice wins as reason to hang in there.

 

[orangecuse]

Missed the point completely. Has nothing to do with anything you posted. If you want to ignore the challenges so be it. Everybody loves the shiny new toys but there will be no miracles when it comes to syracuse football

I stated first that I hear you. I did not opine that Syracuse doesn't have any challenges, obviously they do. Just as CEO's of corporations do, and, in large part, why they are paid so handsomely.

Your words: Said coach comes in and shortly realizes this job is damn tough and probably the most difficult of it's kind that is out there.

My missed point was simply suggesting that high paying ("tough") jobs should/will be challenging, have obstacles, etc. When selling anything, in this case Syracuse football, objections are difficult to overcome, but can be outweighed.

 

[Nicknack]

The HC job at Syracuse is ALWAYS a lot tougher than any incoming head coach anticipates as well as a new AD. Even Marrone who played here was a bit taken back after he finally got here and got the lay of the land. Now Wildhack is a bit different with his background and knowledge of Syracuse sports and I am sure his vision is to give Dino EVERY opportunity to build a program that can have sustained success. It's not typical of what you see in college football today. Just the way it's going to go

This isn't a challenge to what you said but I appreciate your perspective, so I'd like to know more about the unique challenges that a head FB coach at SU faces. I know of a few but interested if there are additional things that I hadn't thought about before. What exactly makes SU so unique and challenging? Is it more than the lack of support financially that you're referring to? Also, this isn't just to IB, I'd like to hear from others as well. Are we really all that unique?

 

[nzm136]

I think you're right. Barring an absolute collapse for 2 seasons, Dino is going to be the coach here for at least 4 more years. That doesn't mean his seat wont get warm, but we've tried the revolving door of coaches. It might help to give the guy time.

9+ years with conceivably 1 winning season is a pipe dream.

This year? Absolutely.
Next year? Absolutely.
Year 7? Who knows?

6 years isn’t a revolving door. It’s an eternity in today’s age, especially with only 1 winning season (worst case) and major facilities upgrades.

Making a bowl in year 6 would absolutely guarantee a 7th (and probably 8th) year, but to promise he’ll be around for another 4 years without having to win is a little much.

 

[Bayside44]

This isn't a challenge to what you said but I appreciate your perspective, so I'd like to know more about the unique challenges that a head FB coach at SU faces. I know of a few but interested if there are additional things that I hadn't thought about before. What exactly makes SU so unique and challenging? Is it more than the lack of support financially that you're referring to? Also, this isn't just to IB, I'd like to hear from others as well. Are we really all that unique?

There's next to no in state talent, esp in comparison to our peers.

 

[PhatOrange]

This isn't a challenge to what you said but I appreciate your perspective, so I'd like to know more about the unique challenges that a head FB coach at SU faces. I know of a few but interested if there are additional things that I hadn't thought about before. What exactly makes SU so unique and challenging? Is it more than the lack of support financially that you're referring to? Also, this isn't just to IB, I'd like to hear from others as well. Are we really all that unique?

You joined the board in 2011. Do we really need to go over again what all the unique challenges are? I'll start. Recruiting. The state of North Carolina has 14 4-star kids this season. New York has 2.

The #3 rated kid in New York has the same rating as the #167 rated kid in Florida or whatever Gadsen's rating is. New York has no talent pool to draw from.

Would you establish a new tech startup in Maine or Silicon Valley?

 

[jr4750]

You joined the board in 2011. Do we really need to go over again what all the unique challenges are? I'll start. Recruiting. The state of North Carolina has 14 4-star kids this season. New York has 2.

The #3 rated kid in New York has the same rating as the #167 rated kid in Florida or whatever Gadsen's rating is. New York has no talent pool to draw from.

Would you establish a new tech startup in Maine or Silicon Valley?

is that new tech startup about harnessing the next generation maple syrup?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You joined the board in 2011. Do we really need to go over again what all the unique challenges are? I'll start. Recruiting. The state of North Carolina has 14 4-star kids this season. New York has 2.

The #3 rated kid in New York has the same rating as the #167 rated kid in Florida or whatever Gadsen's rating is. New York has no talent pool to draw from.

Would you establish a new tech startup in Maine or Silicon Valley?

Yeah the lack of local recruiting base and geography plays a huge role like you said. Football is a dying sport in NY. When Dino gave the first "whose house" speech the condition of the locker rooms were jaw dropping. Sure Syracuse has made renovations but they will always be behind the 8 ball here as well. We are also swimming in much deeper waters recruiting in the Northeast as well as Florida than we were back in the day. Directional Florida schools, Rutgers and now other Big 10 schools.

In addition, the program has really had 2-3 good seasons in almost 20 years? the perception of the program is a big hurdle as well. Kids can't remember our former stars at this point because it's been so long. It's just a tough place to recruit.

The lack of recruiting the O Line position remains a concern for over 20 years now. I would say in 2012 that was our best O Line in recent memory, we had Pugh and a bunch of kids that Marrone transformed into junkyard dogs. Even before that McNabb spent a lot of time running for his life.

We need Bear's Dad. I am not saying it's impossible but it presents some serious unique challenges and choosing to ignore them just is crazy, IMO.

A merry go round at the AD And HC positions do not help. Ill call it poor hiring practices. I think we are in a good spot now. GROB and Gross were REALLY bad hires. Shafer your run of the mill bad hire if I am being nice. Shafer also hired a horrible staff

When we have a really good group of seniors I think we will have our best teams. 2018 you had a special group, 2012 and 2001 as well and I know that is observing the obvious but it's tough for us to reload and that is why you see what we have the past 2 years.

Really a chicken versus egg argument, without more winning you can't attract more talent, without better talent you can't win more and there lies the overall challenge of the job. You will also won't put butts in seats with a loser. Getting to a spot where you can sustain success to keep winning and recruiting but like I said hiring a new coach every few years it will never happen

 

[orangecuse]

You joined the board in 2011. Do we really need to go over again what all the unique challenges are? I'll start. Recruiting. The state of North Carolina has 14 4-star kids this season. New York has 2.

The #3 rated kid in New York has the same rating as the #167 rated kid in Florida or whatever Gadsen's rating is. New York has no talent pool to draw from.

Would you establish a new tech startup in Maine or Silicon Valley?

Whenever we lose local or in state talent on the hoops side (which is somewhat frequentl) it's stated often here how kids just want to get away. So, playing devils advocate, even if there was a sufficient amount of state talent to pick from, who's to say many of those kids too don't "just want to get away" and/or simply choose other schools?

Syracuse being a private institution, also bears no allegiance/pride to that "Flagship" type school that so many other state's kids growing up possess, so I think that could be, imo, even a larger issue/hurdle, if there was plenty of state talent. This isn't anything really new relative to NYS D1 talent, and there's been a lot of time to adapt/'roll with the changes' so to speak.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Whenever we lose local or in state talent on the hoops side (which is somewhat frequentl) it's stated often here how kids just want to get away. So, playing devils advocate, even if there was a sufficient amount of state talent to pick from, who's to say many of those kids too don't "just want to get away" and/or simply choose other schools?

Syracuse being a private institution, also bears no allegiance/pride to that "Flagship" type school that so many other state's kids growing up possess, so I think that could be, imo, even a larger issue/hurdle, if there was plenty of state talent. This isn't anything really new relative to NYS D1 talent, and there's been a lot of time to adapt/'roll with the changes' so to speak.

see your point for sure but It becomes a numbers game on the football side versus basketball too.

 

[GoSU96]

Yeah the lack of local recruiting base and geography plays a huge role like you said. Football is a dying sport in NY. When Dino gave the first "whose house" speech the condition of the locker rooms were jaw dropping. Sure Syracuse has made renovations but they will always be behind the 8 ball here as well. We are also swimming in much deeper waters recruiting in the Northeast as well as Florida than we were back in the day. Directional Florida schools, Rutgers and now other Big 10 schools.

In addition, the program has really had 2-3 good seasons in almost 20 years? the perception of the program is a big hurdle as well. Kids can't remember our former stars at this point because it's been so long. It's just a tough place to recruit.

The lack of recruiting the O Line position remains a concern for over 20 years now. I would say in 2012 that was our best O Line in recent memory, we had Pugh and a bunch of kids that Marrone transformed into junkyard dogs. Even before that McNabb spent a lot of time running for his life.

We need Bear's Dad. I am not saying it's impossible but it presents some serious unique challenges and choosing to ignore them just is crazy, IMO.

A merry go round at the AD And HC positions do not help. Ill call it poor hiring practices. I think we are in a good spot now. GROB and Gross were REALLY bad hires. Shafer your run of the mill bad hire if I am being nice. Shafer also hired a horrible staff

When we have a really good group of seniors I think we will have our best teams. 2018 you had a special group, 2012 and 2001 as well and I know that is observing the obvious but it's tough for us to reload and that is why you see what we have the past 2 years.

Really a chicken versus egg argument, without more winning you can't attract more talent, without better talent you can't win more and there lies the overall challenge of the job. You will also won't put butts in seats with a loser. Getting to a spot where you can sustain success to keep winning and recruiting but like I said hiring a new coach every few years it will never happen

still paying for those really bad hires 15 years later. digging out of that hole has been so hard

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah the lack of local recruiting base and geography plays a huge role like you said. Football is a dying sport in NY. When Dino gave the first "whose house" speech the condition of the locker rooms were jaw dropping. Sure Syracuse has made renovations but they will always be behind the 8 ball here as well. We are also swimming in much deeper waters recruiting in the Northeast as well as Florida than we were back in the day. Directional Florida schools, Rutgers and now other Big 10 schools.

In addition, the program has really had 2-3 good seasons in almost 20 years? the perception of the program is a big hurdle as well. Kids can't remember our former stars at this point because it's been so long. It's just a tough place to recruit.

The lack of recruiting the O Line position remains a concern for over 20 years now. I would say in 2012 that was our best O Line in recent memory, we had Pugh and a bunch of kids that Marrone transformed into junkyard dogs. Even before that McNabb spent a lot of time running for his life.

We need Bear's Dad. I am not saying it's impossible but it presents some serious unique challenges and choosing to ignore them just is crazy, IMO.

A merry go round at the AD And HC positions do not help. Ill call it poor hiring practices. I think we are in a good spot now. GROB and Gross were REALLY bad hires. Shafer your run of the mill bad hire if I am being nice. Shafer also hired a horrible staff

When we have a really good group of seniors I think we will have our best teams. 2018 you had a special group, 2012 and 2001 as well and I know that is observing the obvious but it's tough for us to reload and that is why you see what we have the past 2 years.

Really a chicken versus egg argument, without more winning you can't attract more talent, without better talent you can't win more and there lies the overall challenge of the job. You will also won't put butts in seats with a loser. Getting to a spot where you can sustain success to keep winning and recruiting but like I said hiring a new coach every few years it will never happen

Our limitations explain why we are not Top 25 consistently. But you can argue that we are the worst P5 program of the 2000s. That shouldn't be happening. We have enough to work with to be a consistent Top 60 program.

If Babers can recruit decently (which by all indications he has been lately) and we start seeing these kids make an impact on the field, then he should get a longer leash even with a poor record. The D talent he has brought in has looked pretty good. The O talent is very concerning though. The OL is a mess. The RBs and WRs do not seem ACC level. The QB has struggled and we have no one the compete with him. It is early in the season so maybe we start seeing some young guys get PT as the year goes on. But if the rest of this year and next year are more of the same in regards to O talent, it will be very worrisome.

 

[721Comstock]

Whenever we lose local or in state talent on the hoops side (which is somewhat frequentl) it's stated often here how kids just want to get away. So, playing devils advocate, even if there was a sufficient amount of state talent to pick from, who's to say many of those kids too don't "just want to get away" and/or simply choose other schools?

Syracuse being a private institution, also bears no allegiance/pride to that "Flagship" type school that so many other state's kids growing up possess, so I think that could be, imo, even a larger issue/hurdle, if there was plenty of state talent. This isn't anything really new relative to NYS D1 talent, and there's been a lot of time to adapt/'roll with the changes' so to speak.

Well - many of those land-grant state flagship schools haven't sucked royal at football like we have for the majority of the past TWO DECADES.

So, even IF we were that sorta thing - and as you said, clearly we're very much not - the football on-field results have, with one very major blip, been TURRIBLE.
And, in part because of the talent (or lack therof) we're also not putting guys into the NFL, so we can't point to that either.
Hell- Storz & SUNJ both currently have more guys on NFL rosters than we do.
That's really awful.

New Jersey has a ton of talent, but Rutgers still sucks, because - Rutgers.
Just being a state school isn't enough.

The fact that we cannot land a legacy 'croot to save our lives, is another indication that even the progeny of some of our all-time greats, don't think much of Syracuse at all.

It's an uphill slog, but Dino & crew are doing a solid job of putting the pieces into place, with this current class in particular.