Identity vs Due Diligence: Northeast

[Trueblue25]

NY, NJ, CT, PA

By my count 25 commits between hs/portal in 2024.

9 so far in 2025

Is this a new regional identity Fran is trying to recapture from P’s days or do we have the makings of a winning program right at home within a 6 hr drive?

I know Fran’s known for Jersey, but theres a lot of upstate, downstate and PA in there too.

If Fran produces a successful first season, is there historical precedence for SU to be able to claw these recruiting regions back from Pitt, ND, and the Big 10?

This is such a different, and refreshing recruiting approach. I feel like I’m actually about to watch a Northeast team. Im even seeing CBA and CNS in there.

Not to take away anything from other states recruits, there’s hotter beds of talent throughout the country Fran and our coaches have already pulled from.

 

[LAOrange]

Not everybody has to be Texas HS-ready to be successful in college. Sometimes taking raw talent, speed and size and building it the way you want it for two or three years pays off in loyalty and knowledge of the system, fewer mistakes and adherence to game plan.

 

[JimBoston]

I have thought that a low to mid 3* recruit from the Northeast is better than a mid 3* recruit from the football hotbed states. Why? The kids in the northeast are athletic, but they haven't been as developed as the kids in the hotbed states. Lineman in the Northeast need to add size and strength and the top schools won't even recruit kids that are undersized. Marrone understood this, but I don't think Babers ever did. I thought that the poor performance of Syracuse football since PP was fired was due to the loss of emphasis on the traditional recruiting grounds of NY, New England, PA, NJ, MD/DC. You still bring in speed from FL and GA and QBs from anywhere. Fran Brown's recruiting has to get you excited about the future.

 

[CousCuse]

I remember a poster on here that was making this argument about New York undeveloped talent over and over again only to get disrespected and condescended to by the board brain trust. I just can't remember his name.

 

[Killdozer]

I remember a poster on here that was making this argument about New York undeveloped talent over and over again only to get disrespected and condescended to by the board brain trust. I just can't remember his name.

If it was insightful and brilliant then it was me....

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

No college coach is going to take the Atletico Bilboa approach of limiting their roster to a specific regionality just for the sake of identity.

It's a relationships game - Brown has them in the general region and is working them. Marrone did the same thing (via Anselmo).

It's also a reflection of what type of player staffs are looking for. How Dino approached it and how FB is approaching it do not line up.

 

[baggerbob]

No college coach is going to take the Atletico Bilboa approach of limiting their roster to a specific regionality just for the sake of identity.

It's a relationships game - Brown has them in the general region and is working them. Marrone did the same thing (via Anselmo).

It's also a reflection of what type of player staffs are looking for. How Dino approached it and how FB is approaching it do not line up.

Fran said give me players with measurables, size and speed, and let me work with them.
The 2 things you can't teach.
Speed can be improved, but fast speed can't.

 

[SUskibum]

I have thought that a low to mid 3* recruit from the Northeast is better than a mid 3* recruit from the football hotbed states. Why? The kids in the northeast are athletic, but they haven't been as developed as the kids in the hotbed states. Lineman in the Northeast need to add size and strength and the top schools won't even recruit kids that are undersized. Marrone understood this, but I don't think Babers ever did. I thought that the poor performance of Syracuse football since PP was fired was due to the loss of emphasis on the traditional recruiting grounds of NY, New England, PA, NJ, MD/DC. You still bring in speed from FL and GA and QBs from anywhere. Fran Brown's recruiting has to get you excited about the future.

I agree with all of this but the speed from the south piece. I know this is a very common narrative but it’s just not backed up with facts. There are tons of fast kids from Jersey/Philly/Tri-State, in fact two of the three fastest high school track times this year were jersey kids (both committed to coach fran)

It’s pretty easy to understand why when you step back and think about it. Most speed is genetic as many people emphasize, meaning most of it you are born with (can be enhanced with training but the raw material comes at birth). What does Philly/Jersey/Tri-State have a lot of? Humans! If you have a ton of people you will get plenty of fast people, it’s just about finding them and coach fran is like a heat seeking missile to size and speed located within 5 hrs

Heck we just signed a 10.6 kid in our back yard, that’s fast in ANY state

 

[SoBristol]

No college coach is going to take the Atletico Bilboa approach of limiting their roster to a specific regionality just for the sake of identity.

It's a relationships game - Brown has them in the general region and is working them. Marrone did the same thing (via Anselmo).

It's also a reflection of what type of player staffs are looking for. How Dino approached it and how FB is approaching it do not line up.

Don’t limit to a specific region but recognize that there is an advantage if you can get the better kids within a 6 hour driving radius. What advantage does SU have in Florida or Georgia?

As for “type of player” I am not sure what you mean. Maybe Dino was settling for 6-4” 240 DTs for a 3-3 defense? And Fran wants, and can get, better size?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Don’t limit to a specific region but recognize that there is an advantage if you can get the better kids within a 6 hour driving radius. What advantage does SU have in Florida or Georgia?

This isn't a Syracuse-specific argument, but Boise State has feasted for decades on under-recruited talent out of California, West Virginia pre-Big XII was built around studs out of Florida, Washington St under Leach was all guys out of California and Florida, Utah and BYU use religious connects to get guys no one knows exists out of Pacific Islands you've never heard of. You go where you have relationships and/or you get guys with measurables/skill sets that match your system, especially when you don't have a backyard talent advantage. (I drove to Syracuse from North Jersey for 6 years. Four hours on a good day is not a quick drive.)

"Close to home" isn't going to net you anything on principle alone.

 

[SoBristol]

This isn't a Syracuse-specific argument, but Boise State has feasted for decades on under-recruited talent out of California, West Virginia pre-Big XII was built around studs out of Florida, Washington St under Leach was all guys out of California and Florida, Utah and BYU use religious connects to get guys no one knows exists out of Pacific Islands you've never heard of. You go where you have relationships and/or you get guys with measurables/skill sets that match your system, especially when you don't have a backyard talent advantage. (I drove to Syracuse from North Jersey for 6 years. Four hours on a good day is not a quick drive.)

"Close to home" isn't going to net you anything on principle alone.

I agree about relationships (if you have them, as Fran and most of his assistants do) but SU can’t just pull its choice of the better guys with measurables/skill sets from Florida (just one example). There are 40 other out of state programs working that ground, after Florida, FSU, Miami, UCf, USF.

I note your examples, but bring it back to where SU can expect to feast. It has to start with our region - and then fill in as we can.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It has to start with our region - and then fill in as we can.

Why though? People say this like it's carved in stone.

I think it's great that Coach Fran is focusing on the NE - that seems to be something Wildhack is targeting, and Brown is off to one heck of a start.

But "Cuse has to recruit successfully close to home to be successful" in and of itself has always puzzled me. It feels built on:

1) "Because that's what Syracuse did in their last successful period", which ignores how much CFB and recruiting itself has changed
2) The Tiffany programs succeed because of local-to-them talent (look up the number of West Coast kids on Alabama and Georgia's rosters in the last few years)
3) Syracuse has some kind of regional standing (anyone I know from downstate NY / NJ / the Philly area knows as much about Syracuse athletics and Syracuse University as someone who lives in the Midwest)
4) A lack of acknowledgement of shifting air travel providers - ULC carriers, expanding hub access, etc. make it easier to get to Syracuse than ever before from wherever around the country.

 

[Sudano]

Why though? People say this like it's carved in stone.

I think it's great that Coach Fran is focusing on the NE - that seems to be something Wildhack is targeting, and Brown is off to one heck of a start.

But "Cuse has to recruit successfully close to home to be successful" in and of itself has always puzzled me. It feels built on:

1) "Because that's what Syracuse did in their last successful period", which ignores how much CFB and recruiting itself has changed
2) The Tiffany programs succeed because of local-to-them talent (look up the number of West Coast kids on Alabama and Georgia's rosters in the last few years)
3) Syracuse has some kind of regional standing (anyone I know from downstate NY / NJ / the Philly area knows as much about Syracuse athletics and Syracuse University as someone who lives in the Midwest)
4) A lack of acknowledgement of shifting air travel providers - ULC carriers, expanding hub access, etc. make it easier to get to Syracuse than ever before from wherever around the country.

Because there are recognized concepts of Proximity in Human Psychology, Sociology, Decision Making, and Business Recruiting and Talent Acquisition. You start as closest to the center and extend out in concentric circles to acquire the resource needed until completed. It's an intrinsic human concept. You extend the least amount of resources, energy, time and money while gaining the most benefit.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Because there are recognized concepts of Proximity in Human Psychology, Sociology, Decision Making, and Business Recruiting and Talent Acquisition. You start as closest to the center and extend out in concentric circles to acquire the resource needed until completed. It's an intrinsic human concept. You extend the least amount of resources, energy, time and money while gaining the most benefit.

So you're just waving your hand to an extremely vague and loose mixture of theories to generalize what needs to be done when every school in CFB has their own unique sets of challenges and opportunities in recruiting?

 

[CU44SE]

I have thought that a low to mid 3* recruit from the Northeast is better than a mid 3* recruit from the football hotbed states. Why? The kids in the northeast are athletic, but they haven't been as developed as the kids in the hotbed states. Lineman in the Northeast need to add size and strength and the top schools won't even recruit kids that are undersized. Marrone understood this, but I don't think Babers ever did. I thought that the poor performance of Syracuse football since PP was fired was due to the loss of emphasis on the traditional recruiting grounds of NY, New England, PA, NJ, MD/DC. You still bring in speed from FL and GA and QBs from anywhere. Fran Brown's recruiting has to get you excited about the future.

I agree. How many scouts are down watching florida, texas, georgia kids. The talent is so picked over. And to your point, if a kid is a 3 star recruit. He has had so much more training and experience than the kid in the northeast. They play year round and have 7 on 7 when they are out of season. The amount of football they play compared to the northeast is night and day. Now your saying these 3 star kids are ranked similarly and have played about half the amount of football as the kids in those hotbeds. You defiantly have to think that with more training and 24/7 football at the college level, the northeast kids will outproduce those 3 star kids from the south that have probably maxed out their potential.

 

[SoBristol]

Why though? People say this like it's carved in stone.

I think it's great that Coach Fran is focusing on the NE - that seems to be something Wildhack is targeting, and Brown is off to one heck of a start.

But "Cuse has to recruit successfully close to home to be successful" in and of itself has always puzzled me. It feels built on:

1) "Because that's what Syracuse did in their last successful period", which ignores how much CFB and recruiting itself has changed
2) The Tiffany programs succeed because of local-to-them talent (look up the number of West Coast kids on Alabama and Georgia's rosters in the last few years)
3) Syracuse has some kind of regional standing (anyone I know from downstate NY / NJ / the Philly area knows as much about Syracuse athletics and Syracuse University as someone who lives in the Midwest)
4) A lack of acknowledgement of shifting air travel providers - ULC carriers, expanding hub access, etc. make it easier to get to Syracuse than ever before from wherever around the country.

Because families can see their kids play. Sure, kids and families can fly back and forth to deliver kids to school, pick up at the end of the semester, parents’ day. Some do that. But it is a heck of a lot easier for mid-Atlantic, Ohio, NJ, PA, downstate families to drive to SU. Same for parts of Canada.

In our extended region, we have at least that advantage. In Florida, Texas, California - what advantage do we have versus 40 other programs? It is a hard slog as we have seen in the past 20 years.

 

[Sudano]

So you're just waving your hand to an extremely vague and loose mixture of theories to generalize what needs to be done when every school in CFB has their own unique sets of challenges and opportunities in recruiting?

Vague loose mixture of theories?! It's a foundational principle for human existence on resource acquisition and allocation. Read a book, take a course, learn about it, why be so dismissive about something you just don't know about.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Because families can see their kids play. Sure, kids and families can fly back and forth to deliver kids to school, pick up at the end of the semester, parents’ day. Some do that. But it is a heck of a lot easier for mid-Atlantic, Ohio, NJ, PA, downstate families to drive to SU. Same for parts of Canada.

In our extended region, we have at least that advantage. In Florida, Texas, California - what advantage do we have versus 40 other programs? It is a hard slog as we have seen in the past 20 years.

Just an example - The 2024 Top 50 players in NJ are going to 29 different FBS or FCS schools. So let's stop with this belief that only certain states are picked over - recruiting is a national game.

Also, of the Top 50 from NJ, at least 18 are going to schools at the edge of or outside that 6 hour range. Including 3 going to Stanford.

When Cuse played at Ohio in 2021, a ton of player parents were there - including many who made the trip to a rural area even though Cuse was closer to their homes.

These are just examples, but they're relevant to what you cite about - and the behaviors exhibited which don't match what you suggest is a steadfast rule.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Vague loose mixture of theories?! It's a foundational principle for human existence on resource acquisition and allocation. Read a book, take a course, learn about it, why be so dismissive about something you just don't know about.

Saying "all knowledge is on my side and you need to do the work to prove you are wrong" isn't much of an argument.

 

[SoBristol]

Just an example - The 2024 Top 50 players in NJ are going to 29 different FBS or FCS schools. So let's stop with this belief that only certain states are picked over - recruiting is a national game.

Also, of the Top 50 from NJ, at least 18 are going to schools at the edge of or outside that 6 hour range. Including 3 going to Stanford.

When Cuse played at Ohio in 2021, a ton of player parents were there - including many who made the trip to a rural area even though Cuse was closer to their homes.

These are just examples, but they're relevant to what you cite about - and the behaviors exhibited which don't match what you suggest is a steadfast rule.

Of course it is a national game. The point is that programs have recruiting advantages in their regions, and outside their regions it is a big competition against 40 programs.

Not a steadfast rule, but if you can’t win recruits in your region (and aren’t already a selector program or perhaps a top name like Stanford), good luck in moving up the food chain. Good thing Fran is showing how to win a fair share in NJ. So, maybe more of the top 50 in NJ will look to SU.

Look, we haven’t done well in our natural extended region, and we haven’t done well on the field. I expect Fran knows what he is doing to improve our lot.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Look, we haven’t done well in our natural extended region, and we haven’t done well on the field.

And there-in lies my point. That's a false correlation. You can win with talent from anywhere and everywhere. And you can get talent in numerous ways. Sure, some of Cuse's issues have been talent related.

But you can't specifically connect losing records with where players went to high school. Because it's not nearly that simple.

 

[money3189]

The key is to get the best kids in the region.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

The key is to get the best kids in the region.

The key is to get the best players. Where they come from is immaterial. Proximity to home is just a recruiting angle.

 

[TheCusian]

I think regional pride is untapped resource I the north east. The SEC has is with the south. I’ll go so far as to say it benefits the SEC and B1G to lay on a thick glaze of “football is dead in the northeast” while they pillage the best from NJ, NY and PA.

Fran is single handily taking a hammer to that narrative.

 

[money3189]

The key is to get the best players. Where they come from is immaterial. Proximity to home is just a recruiting angle.

They all want the best players. I was talking about getting the best players in the region as well as the country.

What do you mean by recruiting angle?