If anyone is doubting Babers as THE guy...

[djorange1989]

Let’s provide a little context to this point you make. Louisville finished 6-6 and ND finished 7-6 the years we beat them as “ranked” opponents. So in the end they weren’t anything special (although for GROB they were still noteworthy because they were wins).

and one of those coaches he beat was Charlie Weis, enough said there.

 

[sufandu]

Agree about the schemes -- but you did see Mahoney put up 35 points in one half vs Wake (best half for the offense all season); and a ton of points vs Pitt in the season finale in 2016 (best offensive output in 2016). Those end results might well have been different. The defense, which was good in October, ran out of gas. They got blocked; they got out run. Basic football -- not schemes.

I think it took two quarters to figure Mahoney out. WF made adjustments to take away what he was comfortable with and Louisville saw that film. Two of the statistically worst defenses we played this year shut us down for 6 quarters. Then, like you said, the defense is spent. Where they were bailing us out a bit during our lulls earlier in the year, they can't now.

 

[Orangello]

With either defense, the end results would still be the same because Mahoney can't move the team and score points

Of course these endless debates about scheme are largely speculation. I can see with my own two eyes how bad the safety play and linebacker play is right now.

and don't forget the DL ! Everyone is doing their part in this crap show.

 

[SoBristol]

I think it took two quarters to figure Mahoney out. WF made adjustments to take away what he was comfortable with and Louisville saw that film. Two of the statistically worst defenses we played this year shut us down for 6 quarters. Then, like you said, the defense is spent. Where they were bailing us out a bit during our lulls earlier in the year, they can't now.

That might be it -- as to Mahoney's early success v Wake, though Mahoney has had other decent games against good teams (in losses). And despite those stats, tWake's defense helped defeat NC State. Louisville got back a bunch of players who were injured.
Our offense without Dungey's running has a problem -- too highly dependent on Ishmael & Phillips, and a limited running attack. Very predictable. And, when a QB has no option other than to throw a lot, on 2nd & long and 3rd & long, bad things happen.

 

[sufandu]

That might be it -- as to Mahoney's early success v Wake, though Mahoney has had other decent games against good teams (in losses). And despite those stats, tWake's defense helped defeat NC State. Louisville got back a bunch of players who were injured.
Our offense without Dungey's running has a problem -- too highly dependent on Ishmael & Phillips, and a limited running attack. Very predictable. And, when a QB has no option other than to throw a lot, on 2nd & long and 3rd & long, bad things happen.

And it's harder to throw when teams know you want to throw short and aren't good at throwing long.

 

[TheCusian]

This.

1st half of the season we always rushed 4 and blitzed quite a bit. Something changed and I think it has to do with injuries/personnel more than anything.

We can't help with our Safeties. They are too slow and take bad angles.

Ward or Shafer would be having the same problems re:the blitz or bringing people

 

[TheCusian]

And it's harder to throw when teams know you want to throw short and aren't good at throwing long.

This is huge. Mahoney isn't accurate on deep throws. Teams had to deal with Dungey running and his accuracy down field (I know he missed some, but he's at least a threat).

 

[OrangeMojo]

No doubts - Babers is THE guy - looking forward to the next few years watching this all come together (but not looking forward to this Saturday )

 

[SoBristol]

No doubts - Babers is THE guy - looking forward to the next few years watching this all come together (but not looking forward to this Saturday )

Yes -- he is the guy. He will show it by keeping the best of his staff in place and by winning more recruiting battles. We follow w/l results and schemes and play-calling, but these aren't what will prove Babers is the guy. Keep track of what he does with the 8 or 9 remaining slots in the 2018 class, and then the commits he garners by August. The lifeblood of the program.

 

[kcsu]

you either have a short memory, don't watch the games or don't pay attention when you are watching. the first 3/4 of the season we rushed 4 and blitzed a lot. if we've backed off that (admittedly I've had to radio the last two games) but if we've backed off what we were doing defensively for the first 8 games then what's changed to force us to do that.

You are correct. Injuries to our secondary have severely limited is. In hindsight Ward should have stuck with the original scheme.

 

[qdawgg]

This is huge. Mahoney isn't accurate on deep throws. Teams had to deal with Dungey running and his accuracy down field (I know he missed some, but he's at least a threat).

So if you now admit that Mahoney isn't accurate on deep throws, explain again why you felt the need to argue with me that throwing deep 3 times in a row against WF made a lot of sense along with the ensuing FG attempt that had no chance?

 

[st_machine]

Then I'm not sure you're ever going to be happy with SU Football. IMHO, he is undoubtedly THE guy. One must remember that he is still dealing with razor-thin depth and skewed top-to-bottom talent from Shaf. When Dungey got dinged up a few weeks ago, we knew his season was over shortly thereafter. Sadly, thus went our realistic chances at a bowl. Without Dungey this year, we get dismantled in many of the close games. That kid singlehandedly kept us in games by sacrificing his body and getting that extra yard. Unfortunately, we all knew he would likely not get up from one of the hits. It happened.

Babers has these kids dialed in. They're still so damn young. Yes, we're losing key players in Zaire, Parris, Ish and Erv,
...
.[/QUOTE
I'm sorry , but if there's one thing Dino doesn't have, its these guys "dialed in"
they lost 2-3 games early largely because of penalties .
they completely checked out on defense the last 2 games, a truly embarrassing defensive performance.
to me thats 4-5 losses due to lack of preparation: sloppiness, unprepared for wake, etc.
if i have 1 complaint with DB (actually i have more), its that this team has specifically NOT been dialed in.

This team will ALWAYS play vs more talented teams. fact of life in the ACC. Good as he is, Dino will not consistently out-recruit Clemson, Miami, Fl. State, etc. So his team better make fewer mistakes and be more dialed in than their opponents.You dont need to be a 4 or 5 star recruit to not go offsides, line up in the backfield by mistake, or grab a facemask.

Dino seems like a likable, energetic guy, and they did appear to fix their defensive problems last year (for a while, anyway). if the staff takes a good hard look in the mirror and honestly assesses what they need to fix, and takes steps to do it, they'll be fine...but not being dialed in, focused , and disciplined easily cost them 2-3 games this yr.

 

[PhatOrange]

So if you now admit that Mahoney isn't accurate on deep throws, explain again why you felt the need to argue with me that throwing deep 3 times in a row against WF made a lot of sense along with the ensuing FG attempt that had no chance?

I thought I read Mahoney made those decisions to throw deep?

 

[DomeStranger]

No doubts here Babers is the guy and now is the time to re-invest in him. I would extend as long as the buyout increases greatly. It should be easy to convince him if he's successful the schools that come calling won't worry about 30M buyouts.

Dino checks nearly all the boxes of what a small private school wants in a HC. He's also got that X factor and an electric personality. One big win and everybody starts checking him out and realizing what most of us already know. It's the first time in my lifetime I can remember the HC being so desired by other programs.

Worst case scenario we have another couple disappointing or mediocre years and even then if SU starts looking for a new HC what are the odds they can find someone who is as perfect as a fit than Dino? I think its slim and worth giving him an extra year or two to figure it out.

Better case scenario's have him being successful in winning games, and when he does, teams will come calling and he will have to decide to stay or go. If SU buys in on him while he is low it shows they are committed and why he should stay. And if he decides to leave then the buyout will leave SU with enough money to go big for the next guy.

IMO, extending Dino and increasing his buyout is a very low risk, high reward gamble. They made a great decision by hiring him in the first place, go ahead and double down and reap the rewards.

 

[Rocco]

No doubts here Babers is the guy and now is the time to re-invest in him. I would extend as long as the buyout increases greatly. It should be easy to convince him if he's successful the schools that come calling won't worry about 30M buyouts.

Dino checks nearly all the boxes of what a small private school wants in a HC. He's also got that X factor and an electric personality. One big win and everybody starts checking him out and realizing what most of us already know. It's the first time in my lifetime I can remember the HC being so desired by other programs.

Worst case scenario we have another couple disappointing or mediocre years and even then if SU starts looking for a new HC what are the odds they can find someone who is as perfect as a fit than Dino? I think its slim and worth giving him an extra year or two to figure it out.

Better case scenario's have him being successful in winning games, and when he does, teams will come calling and he will have to decide to stay or go. If SU buys in on him while he is low it shows they are committed and why he should stay. And if he decides to leave then the buyout will leave SU with enough money to go big for the next guy.

IMO, extending Dino and increasing his buyout is a very low risk, high reward gamble. They made a great decision by hiring him in the first place, go ahead and double down and reap the rewards.

Good post... I agree with all of this.

All about the risk/reward in this situation. In light of the disappointing finish to the season, it's still very favorable to us right now IMHO.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Extend Babers after 2018. Not now.

 

[tipphill]

I know that Dino mentioned the huge challenge of getting the players to ‘buy in’ when he took over the job. We know he’s been asking for support and a buy in for the process from the fans too. Reading posts like bcubs makes me wonder if the buy in was tentative for the older players so when the real adversity of injuries and subsequent losses hit, their belief and confidence in the system, in their teammates, took a big hit, just like some posters here. I’m no football insider by any means so just what might be a mindless thought.

i but into the process of rebuild, i do not buy into the "fast offense" concept. thats just me being old school. i believe in a faster offense, one that suits your personnel. i did not like babers comments on community and despite his apology, i believe he was being thin skinned as he had probably never experienced a blowback. i give him a pass on this.
imho he has 4 yrs to demonstrate his program success in recruiting and w/l. i would like us to get to 8-9 wins by that time. somehow though i do not think he will be here.

 

[elimunelson]

No extension until we see results. If he uses results to leave then so be it. Stop this madness of extending w zero results.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

No extension until we see results. If he uses results to leave then so be it. Stop this madness of extending w zero results.

I suspect the counterpoint to your statement will be people arguing that there are results that are deeper than the W-L, in building team depth, in building a program that CAN beat higher end teams. And there is truth to this.

But my counter to that counter is, thats why i am not even making a peep about the guy being 4-8 in back to back years. But for him to get MORE years he needs to take that next step and start advancing the W-L numbers.

I think he's the guy. I really do. But to say that you are 100% after this season? I dont know. I need to see that next step in W-L taken before I can say 100%

 

[GoSU96]

More excuses. Wake's players aren't any better than ours and they blew our dang doors off. Oh Oh but we beat Clemson!!!! Gerg beat ND, BFD. The wins against VT and Clemson are actually more slaps in the face when you finish the season by losing out. Nothing like having hope only to have it buried like a stash of Atari 2600 E.T. carts in an AZ desert. This is some of the worst defense we've EVER played and because we did alright against some 2nd string signal callers people think Ward's ok. He's not. Letting LJ pick apart our zone all damn day was ridiculous. Ward sucks, the numbers bear it out. People blame injuries for our D falling off, I think it's the opposite. It was other teams injuries that made our defense look more competent that it really was.

Bunch of nonsense. Through the first nine games of the year #1 3rd down defense top 45 in total defense

Why would you assume that the last three games not at full strength is more indicative than first nine?

 

[Crusty]

Then I'm not sure you're ever going to be happy with SU Football. IMHO, he is undoubtedly THE guy. One must remember that he is still dealing with razor-thin depth and skewed top-to-bottom talent from Shaf. When Dungey got dinged up a few weeks ago, we knew his season was over shortly thereafter. Sadly, thus went our realistic chances at a bowl. Without Dungey this year, we get dismantled in many of the close games. That kid singlehandedly kept us in games by sacrificing his body and getting that extra yard. Unfortunately, we all knew he would likely not get up from one of the hits. It happened.

Babers has these kids dialed in. They're still so damn young. Yes, we're losing key players in Zaire, Parris, Ish and Erv, but also bringing back boatloads of underclassmen who have valuable playing experience under their belts. The biggest focus right now IMHO is closing this recruiting class out strong. It's currently the best class we've had in some time (and can get better), but the staff really needs to fight off some bigger schools down the stretch. Be prepared for some fireworks, hopefully good ones.

Simply put, Babers has proven that they can play with and outscheme the big boys. This season will not end how any of us want, but we're getting better every year. Who thought we would beat Clemson 2 years ago? Who thought we would go toe-to-toe with LSU in Death Valley, keep it close against The U in Miami or actually start getting some extended love on GameDay? This is all credit to what Babers and his staff have done for this program. Let us not forget that so quickly.

People might have forgotten about SU for the rest of this year, but with so many key pieces coming back next year to go with a stellar recruiting class, people will now pay close attention to SU Football. This is a fact. I fully expect us to crack the Top 25 over the next year or 2. I fully expect us to play in a bowl game every year moving forward. If things really keep improving, who knows, maybe we could compete for an ACC Championship in the next few years, too. The good news is that NONE of this is out of question anymore. That is huge to think about. We finally got a guy who gets it and is still building his foundation. The results will continue to impress people. Call me an eternal optimist, but something changed this year. It's palpable.

Have some faith folks. Dino is the answer.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Amen

 

[TheCusian]

Bunch of nonsense. Through the first nine games of the year #1 3rd down defense top 45 in total defense

Why would you assume that the last three games not at full strength is more indicative than first nine?

Yep. There is more proof that D can be what they envisioned when they were playing with the D players they brought in to fix what they knew was broken. Lost those players, D looks broken again.

This isn’t hard

 

[Louie and Bouie]

The 3rd down defensive statistic (a real anomaly based upon all of the other numbers) masked a lot of deep seeded issues with this defense which have been a problem for 2 full seasons now. If we didn't play games in November then our defense may have been closer to average but based upon the whole of the season we were one of the worst defenses in P5 yet again this year. Outside of 3rd down defense, there isn't one statistic that I can find which is positive this season. Not intended to be shot at Babers or Ward but it was pure ugliness. Gotta get substantially better or this team will have to average 40+ points per game in conference (not likely) to win games.

114th in yards per play
103rd in pass yards/attempt
113th in rush yards/attempt
101st in points per game
108th in yards per game
102nd in passing yards per game
98th in rush yards per game
125th in 20+ yards TD's
113th in sacks

I think its ok to like the staff without inventing ways suggesting we were better than we were on both sides of the ball. We weren't good this year. Hopefully, we're better next year.

 

[bcubs9497]

Bunch of nonsense. Through the first nine games of the year #1 3rd down defense top 45 in total defense

Why would you assume that the last three games not at full strength is more indicative than first nine?

That 3rd down stat is meaningless when the defense is giving up 6.5 yards per play on average.

 

[JrodCuse]

It's a classic abusive technique, silent treatment with no communication as to what's wrong, i.e. the old 'You should know what you did wrong' move. It was made in jest, let's move on. Name one other P5 program...ok...ready...it was easy...Miami. What do I win.

You win a new car! But cmon you can't compare miami to Syracuse . That's like comparing Alabama to Syracuse or FSU to Syracuse.

Miami fires coaches for having a .560 winning percentage over 4-5 years. We've had one HC with a record even close to that (marrone). Marrone went 25-25. Grob went 5-37!!!!!. Shaffer went 14-23.

I mean that alone should show you how far we've fallen. We're lauding a .500 coach as the programs savior over the past almost 20 years.

Miamis HC records from 2000 to now:

Coker 60-15 - .800
Randy Shannon 28-22 - .560
Al golden 32-25 - .561
Richt 13-4 - .765

We're really un-unique in the fact that we're terrible with zero consistency. Miami is semi unique in that they've had a new coach every 4-5 years and haven't had a coach with a losing record.

If Randy Shannon or al golden was our coach and won 56% of their games we'd build them a statue outside of the carrier dome.