is the senior bowl a giant waste of time?

[sufandu]

couch's qb rating wasn't better than mcnabbs. similar senior years. mcnabbs was way better over their college careers.
akili smith's senior year was good. year before bad bad bad.

leaf was 159 in his one year. he was a headcase. he should've been good. nfl execs didn't catch that.

Proves my point. NUMBERS don't tell the whole story.

culpepper had a good qb rating. his nfl career will probably be better than most of these guys. i'd take him this year if he could travel in time

The argument wasn't whether he would be better than these guys. It was whether his NUMBERS suggested he was better than McNabb and if reality suggested the same. His college NUMBERS say yes, his NFL career says no. His best years were when he was throwing the ball as far as could so Randy Moss could run underneath it for TD's and Chris Carter was finishing his HOF worthy career.

shaun king one year wonder at tulane. tulane qb blech

Sure, I'll give you the small sample size. But his NUMBERS that one year were very good. Wouldn't it have been nice to see him practice with and against the same competition as his peers to see how he compared.

cade mcnown good senior year, career rating 140. eh.

Why do you look at career here, when Aaron Rodgers only had a two year sample size? His junior year was a 166, senior year 156.6, suggesting equal to McNabb.

if you look at all their college seasons and passer ratings, you'd probably come away thinking mcnabb was the best and safest pick.

Could you not also wonder why McNabb's best rating was his freshman year? You need to look deeper than the NUMBERS to see that he had a future NFL HOF receiver his freshman year that he didn't have his other three years. You would also notice the offense changed over time and he took on more responsibility.

i'm not looking at yards and touchdowns because some guys throw way more. i stick to rating because it makes it apples to apples.

Brady is the best example of a guy who didn't have a great rating in college. I blame lloyd carr for being an idiot messing with him and drew henson. but even his senior year rating was 142. back then that was pretty good. he'd be much higher today. matt ryan had a bad rating in college. brees rating surprisingly bad.

rodgers 150 in college sr year
roethlisberger 165
manning 148

i think that as college offenses and pro offense converge, ruling people out who don't have a good enough rating in college is a better idea than trying to talk yourself into a guy just because brady's coach was dumb

Your original argument was that looking at numbers was all that was necessary. All I'm asserting is you have to look deeper. What was the competition like? How did he play against the toughest competition? Did he inflate his numbers against scrubs only to disappear in the big games? Was he surrounded by superior personnel that made him look good?

The original question raised in this thread was whether the senior bowl was useless? QB isn't the only position scouts are looking at. There are positions where numbers mean even less. What do you do with a 3-4 noseguard that doesn't get hardly any tackles but eats up blockers so his linebackers can make plays? Wouldn't it be nice to see him and his competition go up against some of the best college centers in practice for a week to compare them? If numbers tell the whole story Terrell Owens is a great teammate. Despite his numbers, he's been found to be a cancer on every team he's been on.

 

[Millhouse]

Your original argument was that looking at numbers was all that was necessary. All I'm asserting is you have to look deeper. What was the competition like? How did he play against the toughest competition? Did he inflate his numbers against scrubs only to disappear in the big games? Was he surrounded by superior personnel that made him look good?

The original question raised in this thread was whether the senior bowl was useless? QB isn't the only position scouts are looking at. There are positions where numbers mean even less. What do you do with a 3-4 noseguard that doesn't get hardly any tackles but eats up blockers so his linebackers can make plays? Wouldn't it be nice to see him and his competition go up against some of the best college centers in practice for a week to compare them? If numbers tell the whole story Terrell Owens is a great teammate. Despite his numbers, he's been found to be a cancer on every team he's been on.

it's not just that you can measure guys' performance in college. it's also that you can watch just about every play of everyone's career pretty easily.

 

[sufandu]

it's not just that you can measure guys' performance in college. it's also that you can watch just about every play of everyone's career pretty easily.

Sure. But it's not always against equal competition. Someone pointed out earlier seeing a guy compete against Big East defenses is not the same as watching someone go against SEC defenses. At an event like this, you can see guys side by side, all competing against the same guys. As someone else pointed out, it's not so much about the game, it's about seeing them conduct themselves everyday in practice for a week too.