Kent Syverud letter to Miner

[Crusty]

The unfortunate truth is that there is no private money coming to Syracuse anytime soon. There are just too many better places to invest. Without considerable pump riming from the government the city and the region will keep sinking lower and lower. For Syracuse SU is the last of the Golden Geese and the only game in town.

 

[Millhouse]

Supp, you have good points, but they aren't the only points. I wasn't an economics major, just using a little common sense. $500 millioon, you figure out how to get it done. The Dome comes down(Jobs=money), new dome built(more jobs=more money). I know I over simplified that, but to deal with the issues that you are referring to(and they are vast, important, and heart-breaking in some cases), need more than to just throw money at programs that are only temporary fixes, those conversations have to happen at the National level because in all States and most Counties, they are dealing with the same problems and States are going to have to work with the Fed. to get it done. That money would have provided an immeadiate boost to the City/County economy, an I believe would have put Syracuse in line for some events that generally would bypass us. The Stadium was/is more important than most realize, once ground breaks for the new stadium, watch and see the new businesses that sprout up around it. IMO, you do this project, while still continuing to work on those larger issues...:noidea:

Broken windows fallacy. If destroying the dome is good for creating jobs, we should break windows everywhere all the time

 

[xc84]

Broken windows fallacy. If destroying the dome is good for creating jobs, we should break windows everywhere all the time

SU wants a new stadium/arena. They proposed that one be built and they would be the anchor tenant. SU is not proposing replacing he dome to create jobs and this entire thing originated with SU.

 

[CINYer]

Broken windows fallacy. If destroying the dome is good for creating jobs, we should break windows everywhere all the time

Not so much broken window fallacy for/from me, just stating that while the funds didn't go to programs that some(including myself) would deem more important, movement in a different area is still movement. While not directly addressing specific needs, many people would benefit for years to come because of the project. I know there are all types of concerns, people did let ego's get in the way, but at the end of the day, you find a way to get it done, because despite what some people think, the Stadium/Arena would be far more valuable to the community than expected. I am in no way advocating for quick fix, broken window projects, Syracuse needs to start progressing towards the future, this would have been a nice start, along with what's going on at Destiny, plus whatever is decided to do with I-81. It really is a larger issue, but this could have been a part of the solution.:noidea:

 

[supp]

LOL... you made my point for me. I guess we should have taken the other project the state was going to help fund with a $200M grant. Oh yeah, there wasn't one.

Who's fault is that? Where are the ideas for govt aid to jumpstart business and economy in Syracuse? I'd like to hear them. People here laud Mahoney for her vision but she has none and she's made that perfectly clear to anyone closely following this story. She knew Cuomo is ramping up for reelection and spreading cash around upstate. The other upstate cities got financial promises from the state because they had concrete development proposals. Where are her ideas? She simply went to SU and asked them what was on their wishlist. Read her letter to Rubin. She lays it all out there. She's acted as a shill for SU on this and used her connection to the governor to lobby for a project that is of obvious benefit to SU but of dubious benefit to the local community.

Jeez, it's like arguing with members of a cult!

 

[Millhouse]

SU wants a new stadium/arena. They proposed that one be built and they would be the anchor tenant. SU is not proposing replacing he dome to create jobs and this entire thing originated with SU.

Cinyer suggested that. No big whoop

 

[CINYer]

Cinyer suggested that. No big whoop

What did I suggest? That while a new Stadium isn't needed, it would still provide a boost to the local economy? That it would be more valuable than people realize? That the Syracuse "mindset" is stuck in the past? I'm no salesman, and I'm not trying to sell you anything, so yeah, you're right, no big whoop, but we shall agree to disagree. Your opinion is yours, I am of a different opinion. Some people get tunnel vision and can't see the big picture. These are major projects happening, Syracuse is ideal for a lot of different reasons for many different business interest. I don't think it's dead, just going to have to wait a year or two. This project would put people to work and create residual jobs in the community, how is that not a win for the community? The Stadium would be only a piece of the larger picture. Destiny, Harbor, I-81 project, all going on at the same time. The Airport has had significant upgrades, they are talking about renovating Hotel Syracuse, if not now, when? No project is perfect, I'm just saying they could have made it work, and it would have been a net benefit to the community. To suggest I said or implied anything else would be false.:noidea:

 

[Crusty]

Who's fault is that? Where are the ideas for govt aid to jumpstart business and economy in Syracuse? I'd like to hear them. People here laud Mahoney for her vision but she has none and she's made that perfectly clear to anyone closely following this story. She knew Cuomo is ramping up for reelection and spreading cash around upstate. The other upstate cities got financial promises from the state because they had concrete development proposals. Where are her ideas? She simply went to SU and asked them what was on their wishlist. Read her letter to Rubin. She lays it all out there. She's acted as a shill for SU on this and used her connection to the governor to lobby for a project that is of 's obvious benefit to SU but of dubious benefit to the local community.

Jeez, it's like arguing with members of a cult!

Mahoney should be lobbying for SU with the state for Pete's sake. THERE ARE NO IDEAS FOR SYRACUSE - that is really the point. As FDR often said - you can't beat something with nothing. The stadium is a good project but if you have a better one great let's have it.

Every state is the union is giving corporations 20 and 30 year deals to get facilities located in their state. These decisions are made by executives who look at what the whole community has to offer. Other than snow and a small minded Mill Town mentality what has CNY to offer? If you are not from there why would you want to move your employees there. Heavily union, heavily taxed, lousy climate, aging workforce, financially stressed cities with crumbling infrastructure and dwindling population are not exactly enticing to executives that make those decisions. Syracuse like any other community has to make the most of what they do have and that is a great world class university that just so happens to provide top notch sports entertainment. It's the freakin lifeline.

Cult? Get serious.

 

[rrlbees]

But the underlying assumption you're making here is that the current Dome is somehow a liability to the university and its standing. It's simply not. Listen to what Boeheim had to say on his radio show. It's a liability if you're a fan with a big fat ass. Otherwise, it continues to serve its purpose (and continues to serve this community, if you like) fabulously. Should the taxpayer be on the line for hundreds of millions of dollars because some admins at SU want rather than need a new stadium? Is it to the area's long-term benefit to continue to be a one-horse town? Would that development money be better spent on something else that might expand and diversify the local economy? I think these are all legitimate questions. The problem is that the board hero, Mahoney, was looking for a project to sell to the governor and without having any ideas of her own simply went to SU and asked them for their wishlist. Without any consultation with anyone, she took that wish up the line. I'm sorry but I guess I expect more out of my local government officials, especially when it comes to spending my money.

And you got what you wanted. The money went someplace else and you'll still pay state taxes on it.

Btw, JB didn't want to go to the Dome either.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Mahoney should be lobbying for SU with the state for Pete's sake. THERE ARE NO IDEAS FOR SYRACUSE - that is really the point. As FDR often said - you can't beat something with nothing. The stadium is a good project but if you have a better one great let's have it.

Every state is the union is giving corporations 20 and 30 year deals to get facilities located in their state. These decisions are made by executives who look at what the whole community has to offer. Other than snow and a small minded Mill Town mentality what has CNY to offer? If you are not from there why would you want to move your employees there. Heavily union, heavily taxed, lousy climate, aging workforce, financially stressed cities with crumbling infrastructure and dwindling population are not exactly enticing to executives that make those decisions. Syracuse like any other community has to make the most of what they do have and that is a great world class university that just so happens to provide top notch sports entertainment. It's the freakin lifeline.

Cult? Get serious.

This x 1000, Syracuse is my home but honestly the only thing that keeps me here are my parents, sister and my wife's parents. Syracuse is in rough shape, if we didn't have The university we would really be flucked

 

[Millhouse]

What did I suggest? That while a new Stadium isn't needed, it would still provide a boost to the local economy? That it would be more valuable than people realize? That the Syracuse "mindset" is stuck in the past? I'm no salesman, and I'm not trying to sell you anything, so yeah, you're right, no big whoop, but we shall agree to disagree. Your opinion is yours, I am of a different opinion. Some people get tunnel vision and can't see the big picture. These are major projects happening, Syracuse is ideal for a lot of different reasons for many different business interest. I don't think it's dead, just going to have to wait a year or two. This project would put people to work and create residual jobs in the community, how is that not a win for the community? The Stadium would be only a piece of the larger picture. Destiny, Harbor, I-81 project, all going on at the same time. The Airport has had significant upgrades, they are talking about renovating Hotel Syracuse, if not now, when? No project is perfect, I'm just saying they could have made it work, and it would have been a net benefit to the community. To suggest I said or implied anything else would be false.:noidea:

Breaking windows helps the window maker but hurts whoever would've built something else. That person might be in a different state or county. Fires and earthquakes don't make us richer.

 

[Millhouse]

Mahoney should be lobbying for SU with the state for Pete's sake. THERE ARE NO IDEAS FOR SYRACUSE - that is really the point. As FDR often said - you can't beat something with nothing. The stadium is a good project but if you have a better one great let's have it. Every state is the union is giving corporations 20 and 30 year deals to get facilities located in their state. These decisions are made by executives who look at what the whole community has to offer. Other than snow and a small minded Mill Town mentality what has CNY to offer? If you are not from there why would you want to move your employees there. Heavily union, heavily taxed, lousy climate, aging workforce, financially stressed cities with crumbling infrastructure and dwindling population are not exactly enticing to executives that make those decisions. Syracuse like any other community has to make the most of what they do have and that is a great world class university that just so happens to provide top notch sports entertainment. It's the freakin lifeline. Cult? Get serious.

Do something bias. We must do something . This is something. We must do this.

 

[Millhouse]

Mahoney should be lobbying for SU with the state for Pete's sake. THERE ARE NO IDEAS FOR SYRACUSE - that is really the point. As FDR often said - you can't beat something with nothing. The stadium is a good project but if you have a better one great let's have it. Every state is the union is giving corporations 20 and 30 year deals to get facilities located in their state. These decisions are made by executives who look at what the whole community has to offer. Other than snow and a small minded Mill Town mentality what has CNY to offer? If you are not from there why would you want to move your employees there. Heavily union, heavily taxed, lousy climate, aging workforce, financially stressed cities with crumbling infrastructure and dwindling population are not exactly enticing to executives that make those decisions. Syracuse like any other community has to make the most of what they do have and that is a great world class university that just so happens to provide top notch sports entertainment. It's the freakin lifeline. Cult? Get serious.

And they're heavily taxed because of unnecessary expensive projects like this

 

[Millhouse]

This x 1000, Syracuse is my home but honestly the only thing that keeps me here are my parents, sister and my wife's parents. Syracuse is in rough shape, if we didn't have The university we would really be flucked

Is the university threatening to move?

 

[CousCuse]

And they're heavily taxed because of unnecessary expensive projects like this

Come on Mill , you know that's not true. It's the retirement benefits that have been built up by union bought politicians for 50 years. The union puts money and manpower to get someone elected and the sit across the table to negotiate an increase in their pay and benefits. They get more and put more money behind more politicians and repeat and repeat and repeat. That's where the real money is at and everyone knows it , hell even Coumo knows it has to be dealt with.

 

[xc84]

Who's fault is that? Where are the ideas for govt aid to jumpstart business and economy in Syracuse? I'd like to hear them. People here laud Mahoney for her vision but she has none and she's made that perfectly clear to anyone closely following this story. She knew Cuomo is ramping up for reelection and spreading cash around upstate. The other upstate cities got financial promises from the state because they had concrete development proposals. Where are her ideas? She simply went to SU and asked them what was on their wishlist. Read her letter to Rubin. She lays it all out there. She's acted as a shill for SU on this and used her connection to the governor to lobby for a project that is of obvious benefit to SU but of dubious benefit to the local community.

Jeez, it's like arguing with members of a cult!

I have not lauded Mahoney for her "vision" and have seen no one else do that. Stick to the point...the stadium. Mahoney was right about it. Miner F'ed it up. Now they got bupkis. Yes, Syacuse is getting screwed in the area of state aid and Miner made it worse. There was a project on the table... a "concrete development proposal" in your words. It was enough to the get governor to support it. Along comes Stephanie. And again, SU went to the county, not the other way around but don't let facts get in the way of your agenda.

 

[xc84]

Do something bias. We must do something . This is something. We must do this.

Nope again. You are ignoring the fact that many CNYers and entities like this project because they will USE IT. You know, like the anchor tenant that would be paying rent. The one that proposed it. That risky entity that has been her almost 150 years and is the biggest employer in the region. That one? Or the hundreds of thousands of people that will go to games. See, they like he idea and some of you think that is irrelevant. Only your ideas make sense.

 

[CousCuse]

Maybe The University should have went to the mayor and let her be the lead in working with the governor , who she has cultivated a close and cordial working relationship with ? After all , he is the head of her party in the state and one of the most powerful people in the country. However , we know that's not the case . In fact , quite the opposite. This is a classic example of biting ones nose to spite ones face .

 

[CuseOnly]

But the underlying assumption you're making here is that the current Dome is somehow a liability to the university and its standing. It's simply not. Listen to what Boeheim had to say on his radio show. It's a liability if you're a fan with a big fat ass. Otherwise, it continues to serve its purpose (and continues to serve this community, if you like) fabulously. Should the taxpayer be on the line for hundreds of millions of dollars because some admins at SU want rather than need a new stadium? Is it to the area's long-term benefit to continue to be a one-horse town? Would that development money be better spent on something else that might expand and diversify the local economy? I think these are all legitimate questions. The problem is that the board hero, Mahoney, was looking for a project to sell to the governor and without having any ideas of her own simply went to SU and asked them for their wishlist. Without any consultation with anyone, she took that wish up the line. I'm sorry but I guess I expect more out of my local government officials, especially when it comes to spending my money.

Without projects like this, Syracuse will very shortly be a no horse town. When was the last great infusion of State, local and county funds into anything around here or a project of this scope?

 

[Noexcuse]

Is the university threatening to move?

No. But the University has invested in Syracuse. The School of Architecture Warehouse renovation downtown helped jump start reclamation of the near west side redevelopment along West Fayette and the surrounding neighborhood. Syracuse Stage and the Connective Corridor is having an impact along East Genesse. Syracuse University has invested in the City School District with Say Yes. It's not a one way street here.

 

[Millhouse]

Nope again. You are ignoring the fact that many CNYers and entities like this project because they will USE IT. You know, like the anchor tenant that would be paying rent. The one that proposed it. That risky entity that has been her almost 150 years and is the biggest employer in the region. That one? Or the hundreds of thousands of people that will go to games. See, they like he idea and some of you think that is irrelevant. Only your ideas make sense.

the people that like it should pay for it. Ill chip in too

 

[rrlbees]

Is the university threatening to move?

Yes, to NJ.

 

[brandokc]

Yes, to NJ.

I heard it was to Toronto with Marrone.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

And they're heavily taxed because of unnecessary expensive projects like this

No. The post retirement benefits and public assistance rolls are the killers. Nothing is gained from theses expenditures.
These projects produce jobs, and well paying jobs at that. They spawn start up companies, which employ new workers. The people working on the projects buy local goods and services. Out of town works stay ot local hotels long term. Money is spent, money is made, and ALL of it is taxed, at state and local levels, again and again and again and again, replenishing the coffers.

 

[Cheriehoop]

the people that like it should pay for it. Ill chip in too

Realistically that money has now gone to pay for an amphitheater in Solvay that I don't care about and in other areas of the state that I nor my family will most probably never see nor care about either.

If SU decides to move ahead and build a stadium anyway I can now expect to subsidize more for it while watching my tax $ go to subsidize projects in other parts of the state . Since when in the real world do the people who really want a project, ever pay for it? And I missed the checklist allowing me to chose what I want my tax $ to support.

I agree that the dome is still servicable, an asset and that I will miss it but I also know that I replaced my 20 year old appliances despite them still working when the state gave credits for purchases of appliances a few years ago. It was a deal to me, worth replacing early rather than snub the subsidy that would cost me decent $ by waiting. Was it fair to people who had just bought appliances and wouldn't benefit by replacing them or to tax paying renters who don't own appliances -no - but what moral, ethical, financial victory would I gain by turning down the subsidy because the people profiting from it weren't the people paying for it?

No tax $ are saved by eliminating these initiatives, it would just be diverted to other projects unless the allocations were affected earlier and further up the pipeline. It's spent one way or another, once allocated. The process itself would have to be changed. In the appliance example, there was money " left over" so they extended the deadline till it was all spent.